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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Legal high products in the UK (branded pills and powders)

biggiro said:
Sigh, I really do feel I am banging my head against a brick wall
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I know how you feel mate! :D I have named the drugs you are taking, these magic pills and powders mostly contain those drugs, do you at least understand this? I am not talking about something completely foreign to the pills you hold so dear but the same thing without the marketing bollocks. You are free to discuss them here but I don't think many people buy them as they are TEN TIMES THE PRICE AS THE SAME DRUGS WITHOUT THE FANCY PACKAGING

From what i can tell red doves = overpriced, packaged mephedrone, LU doves = overpriced, packaged butylone (there's different versions of these though so nobody can tell you for sure), Ivory wave = cut to fuck and overpriced MDPV or possibly a new super dangerous cocaine analogue. Selling and marketing unresearched drugs as safe legal highs is often what causes the drugs to come to the attention of the media and thus end in their banning. The companies care very little about what their products do to people and outright lie about their contents.
 
I don't hold these pills dear to my heart!!!!!

The red doves for instance...why does one single pill keep you going for, what? 8 plus hours? From what I have read on Mephedrone, it's effects, albeit very good! are also fairly short lived, certainly not lasting as long as 8 or 10 hours.
If it was just myself that it happened too I would have put it down to just how it affects me, but it was also the same for the girlfriend and another mate.
Possibly Butylone for the white doves eh? Haven't around to looking up much on that yet, the butylone that is.
I have read that it is geranium oil or something that could be in the extra strong diablos, don't know much about that chem either (as yet) but the effect is certainly different from the other pills.
Any idea for instance about the LU jax? because they are different again from either the red or white doves.

For as long as it remains legal (short lived surely?) I'll continue to buy legal highs....but that doesn't mean buying the packaged, expensive ones!!!!!!!
I'll certainly try the research chems mentioned, well, some of them anyway...won't be going near the ivory wave again though as I don't like it's potential for harm on relatively small doses....

Curious now about the ministry pills that technocat asked about (this doesn't mean I am interested in buying them!!!)

Giro
 
Last night the girlfriend and myself tried out straight Mephalone, all very good it was too.

Not going into a trip report but we both ingested about 200mg followed about 2 hours later by a similar amount.
Both nice & loved up, and in fact ended out using it more as a sex enhancement thing...which was pretty awesome I might add.
First dose taken at 9pm, sex session approx 4 hours, easily to sleep by about 3am or so.

The point of the brief encapsulation of a trip report is to highlight the difference between Meph and a pill that is 'mused' might contain it.
The red doves, albeit taken in a party atmosphere, were very different, one pill lasted 10+ hours and the urge to move to music was overwhelming. Sleep was a complete no-no.

So I am still hoping someone can perhaps indicate why the red doves are so different.

WE enjoyed the Meph and will certainly take it again, by controlling dosage - or re-dosage I should add - sleep deprivation not a problem, it works great with sex and no doubt will also be first rate in more social surroundings.
But will it keep me dancing all night long? The red doves sure as hell will.

The difference in cost has been thrown repeatedly at me in this thread, but a casual search shows that you can buy meph for what? About a tenner a gram? How much of that gram would be needed to party all night long?
I've seen a site selling this particular brand of red doves for £12 a pair, so that would cost me £6.00 for several hours of partying/dancing whatever.
So price wise I can't see much difference, even if I only need half a gram of meph it is only marginally cheaper at best.
Admittedly I don't know their composition or any of the other pills & powders that masquerade as bath salts or plant food, or the fillers used to make up the bulk.

This thread has had quite a lot of views in a short period of time, if it wasn't a subject of some interest it would not have many views...
Members of this forum may well not be interested in legal party pills, but you don't have to be a member to read the information posted...

Biggiro
 
^doves have got a big chance to be some blend of piperazine (bordering on the illegal) - meph is a legal RC that may be nice in small doses BUT has the potential of being highly addictive and if you read some of the horror stories about it - you may think twice before ordering more.

Cost is nothing - look how much coke is and how long that lasts? Speed fraction of the price lasts two days longer :D. You pay for what you like and thats it really.
 
Bearlove,
The red doves claim to be pips free, I've had other stuff that had pips in them...didn't last half as long, not from a single pill for sure.

I agree about costs though, but on here I've been blasted for paying for a pill when I can get the possible ingredients of said pill for a fraction of the price.

Meph V addiction....are you talking moreish as in, "I'll just do one more line/bomb" ETC, or full on physical addiction?

I'm very much recreational in use, I'm talking a single pill on the weekend rather than go out and get pissed...I hate getting pissed, ie, 12 pints of stella & half a dozen shots...ugh! Not for me!
Several pints yes, but I'm not one for getting hammered.

Ditto pills/powder, Some [lots] love to really rip it up, downing booze along with uppers and downers by the bucket full, small wonder addiction levels to so many substances are so high.

Am I likely to get addicted to something such as Mephadrone on half a gram on the weekend?

This particular site is all about harm reduction, which suits me right down to the ground, if I am going to get "high" then I want to know all I can about whatever it is I am putting into my body, and I want to be sure I can do it as safely as possible.

A drug is a drug regardless of it's legality, but I want to remain within the law, ergo I will take legal highs be they pills from a head shop or RC powders from China...

That's the problem with drugs isn't it? Take a small enough dose and won't affect you, drink a pint of beer and you carry on with your life completely as normal; take a paracetamol with codeine and your headache goes away....
Ok. ignore the paracetamol bit! But if you cane codeine enough you get high, ditto beer and ditto all other drugs, and by doing so you risk potential harm to your health, death being the ultimate harm.

I'm waffling...anyway, the point is, I want to get a little high on the weekends, but I don't want to get addicted to any particular substance...

Biggiro
 
I’ve never tried the doves so I really wouldn’t know about the effects but I have had the Jax before (both types - original piperazine ones and the "new" generation 3 (piperazine free) and they both had the same effects :D). Lets face it if the makers of these pills were so sure of the legality of the ingredients they would say quite openly what they were.

With costs you pay for what "you" want - yeah if you bought flour, yeast, eggs, and a loaf tin you could make your own bread quite cheaply - question is do you want to? These legal high pills are a blend of different chemicals that could be bought and mixed at home (way cheaper) but if you don’t know what your doing /accurate scales then is it not easier or safer to just buy the pill. (like you say its not as if your taking loads of them in a session)

Meph I’m talking about full on addicted (theres now an addicted to Meph thread :() - the people in that probably started out with a half a g at the weekend. The problem is its so cheap and easily available the chances are you buy more than you need and once you start some find it hard to stop.

I think that partying safe and partying legal are two separate things to be honest - with the well known illegal party drugs most of them have been around for a while, they have been studied, effects on the body documented etc. Now these RC's/legal highs are unknown, no studies done on them and some of the short term effects are awful so can you imagine if people use them for a long period of time?
 
mephalone? that's not a drug haha to you mean methylone or mephedrone?
 
oops! Typo Evad, I mean't mephadrone!

Bearlove,

I agree with all you say, hence the more known about these pills the better, difficult of course as some of them are just so new.
But many of the illegal ones [drugs] are cut with god only knows what, I have no problem with many of them...I only wish to remain legal if at all possible.

I'm personally not the kind to get carried away, but no way would want to get trapped by being unaware's.
For instance, I'm not a smoker, but many kids that start are hooked by the time they have smoked just a few cigarettes, so using the smoker analogy, I don't want to get caught out doing a drug that is going to hook me without me even realising it.

I hope that others who might read threads like this take in the risks and advice being offered, I'm very well aware of the dangers of having a good time, and will always steer well away from drugs that will lead to the misery of addiction, hence my obsession with either finding out as much info as I can, or of seeing it sensibly collated somewhere easily available for others seeking knowledge....

The makers of these new drugs are not going to list their true ingredients though, because to do so means openly admitting what they are for, and all drugs fall into the category of medicines and so on, so that before they are unleashed on the public at large they have to go through years of exhaustive testing.
We, the users are their guinea pigs...unfortunately, because such testing is never going to take place...can you imagine any government allowing testing on drugs to be used for a recreational reason?
By claiming they are not for human consumption, and actively warning against it, at least superficially, they [I think] believe they can get away with their methods of production and advertising....

No one can really be sure until full lab tests are done, but I would have thought that if they advertise a product as being BZP free, then so it should be, otherwise they leave themselves wide open for prosecution should the authorities test one of their products, if guilty of using a proscribed chemical then everyone down the supply chain are then also open for prosecution.

Biggiro.
 
Why do you care so much about these stupid pills? People on here have advised you to stay clear of them, yeah it is up to you if you take them but they all rip off shite.
 
HouseFever,
Don't you get it yet?
You obviously haven't bothered reading my replies properly.

A couple of people have "dissed" these pills, one has said about how you can get the chemicals in them much cheaper rather than buy them all wrapped up in fancy packaging.

But do you really think that they are just one active chemical?

Do you really believe it is just a case of using something to bind a pill and adding say, Methylone or Mephadrone, giving it a fancy name and becoming a supplier of legal highs?

I've used one example, the red doves, I'm not going to mention the maker of these pills, it's up in one of the previous replies if you want to hunt it down, but this particular - to repeat myself yet again - kept myself, the girlfriend and another mate up dancing for over 10 hours.

Does that sound like a lightweight pill to you? Cost; £8.00, no booze required and water is free, a fucking cheap night out if you ask me.

And I am not just asking these questions for my own benefit!!!!!!!

So far, no one has been able to answer what might be in the pills I've mentioned, guesses haven't really nailed the duration of effect.

It isn't BZP and it lasts too long for it to be mephadrone by itself, but perhaps a chemist has tweaked one of the RC chems in a particular way.

But if it IS Mephadrone, and mephedrone is a dangerously addictive substance, then a forum dedicated to harm reduction is a bloody good place to talk about it and to warn others of it's dangers.

This goes for other pills.

Don't forget, many thousands of people are using these legal highs every week, one or two people on here cannot simply come along and slag them off as either worthless or dangerous without some kind of debate on the issues.

Just because they are currently legal does not mean they are not strong, addictive or dangerous.

Knowing how best to take them or not to take them is important, these pills are not identical after all.

Biggiro
 
The problem with these pills is that nobody knows what's in them - even the people selling them half the time - and they lie on the ingredients lists. Many "BZP Free" pills have been proved to contain BZP and other piperazines - the label means nothing so don't believe a word of it.

I think the frustration people have with these legals is that they are notoriously slippery regarding ingredients and have a bad reputation for lying about their products and changing the (secret) recipes constantly to avoid legal troubles. Asking about Pill X is a bit like me saying I have some white powder and if you snort it it makes you feel great for a while but shitty the next day. What's the best way for me to take this powder? It's just guesswork cos it could be anything - same with these legals. We don't know what drug/drugs they contain. Let alone if they are safe to take.

I believe Geranamine is a popular ingredient at the moment so maybe try to research that as it's likely to be in at least some of your pills, but very little is known about it. From the duration, it sounds like a decent pipz blend to me though.
 
I have read your post, and I do get it, actually I don't get it.Not a lot of people (in my circle anyway) go anywhere near those pills, I just can't get my head around why you care what is in a shitty little pill. For one, nobody on here knows what is in these pills, only the manufactures really know. There are chemical after chemical that are put in these pills and they don't share the information.
 
biggiro said:
Do you really believe it is just a case of using something to bind a pill and adding say, Methylone or Mephadrone, giving it a fancy name and becoming a supplier of legal highs?
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yes, that is exactly what the case is!

It isn't BZP and it lasts too long for it to be mephadrone by itself, but perhaps a chemist has tweaked one of the RC chems in a particular way.
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the people making these pills are not chemists, they are getting the ingredients from the same place the people selling the pure powders are. it's pure profiteering, it's in their interests to keep the ingredients secret so people can't make the same mix themselves for much cheaper.
 
Dont forget that BZP is just one piperazine which by itself is imho rubbish - no nice effects as such just a dirty speedy/jittery feeling which keeps you awake. Start mixing it with any of the others and the effects become stronger and start to mimic other drugs (pills, speed etc) - but none of them match the feelings of the "real" drug.

Yes it’s as easy as getting some RC's together - mixing them with a binding agent and pressing pills, add some fancy packaging/name and bingo! Now what RC is used is another matter - nobody knows for sure what is in them except the manufacturer and if they don’t say on the packaging (so they don’t incriminate themselves) then anyone else would be guessing.

If you like them then that’s great, like you say muck cheap and legal but you cant really expect anyone to know for certain what they contain. If your taking some unknown chemical then your taking a risk, take small amounts, watch your fluid intake, don’t forget to rest if your up dancing all night etc

I think it’s a bit pointless to ask people to guess the chemicals in a pill though.
 
Jesus lads you're giving biggiro a fairly rough time

This is a harm reduction site, plenty of people who come on here take these legal pills so whats the problem in doing a bit of research? He simply wants to know what chemicals are in these things

If someone comes on here who is thinking of taking these pills, it would be a great source of info for them so they can make an informed decision. Fair enough buying the pure powder forms may be a better option but for someone who doesn't use online vendors it would be helpful for them to know what their buying in the headshops
 
Shambles,
Perhaps it is a BZP blend then....didn't get any comedown off it though, unless you count gurning and jaw clenching. not forgetting short lived insomnia of course!

I'm told that the extra large XXX diablos have geranium oil in them, maybe they do, tried them and didn't suit my needs, more of a trippy head fuck with them...for us at least.

Housefever sneers at them as 'shitty little pills'...a useful comment that eh?

So far, with the ones I have taken at any rate, they have not proved to be shitty in any way at all.
Quite the reverse, the 'so called' all new lu jax we found suited us very well indeed, neither of us suffered any bad come downs from then, the same with their version of doves, regardless of what may be in them, they proved for us to be a very sociable and friendly pill, boosted quite nicely by a small amount of alcohol.
The red doves much stronger, instinctively don't want alcohol and if dancing is your bag then phew!
No comedowns with any of those listed.

Maybe it is us and the way in which we take them, but 'shitty' they are not.

Another thing to take into consideration is that I just can't stop myself debating on bloody forums!!!
On another one I have to "swim", quite enjoy that as I can have fun with my alter ego ;-]
 
Oh, if I am saying geranium and it is in fact geranamine, then my apologies for the mistake.
 
poparopaliss said:
This is a harm reduction site, plenty of people who come on here take these legal pills so whats the problem in doing a bit of research? He simply wants to know what chemicals are in these things
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So does everyone else. That's the problem - the manufacturers won't say and change the recipe every five minutes anyway. What you buy as a "Diablo" this month may not contain the same ingredients as one you buy next month. In both cases nobody knows what they are taking or if it's safe to take. Some batches have given people some pretty horrific effects but they just change the ingredients or the brand name and carry on selling them.

The best harm reduction can offer is not to use these products as nobody knows what's in them. If you do take them, then start low and don't use them too often cos we don't even know the short-term risks let alone the long-term risks. It's not about giving Giro a hard time, it's about trying to point out that these products are not what they seem and are best avoided.

biggiro said:
Oh, if I am saying geranium and it is in fact geranamine, then my apologies for the mistake.
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It is made from geranium oil and is also known as DMAA, I believe. It's widely used at the moment so is likely in some of your pills. Possibly. But who knows?
 
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