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Leftist Discussion Thread

The risk of them being able to do so in the west is increased exponentially by higher levels of Muslim immigration. Most people with half a brain realise this. Those whose minds are shackled by PC thinking cannot bring themselves to confront the reality of the situation. This has driven many who were formerly on the left of politics (me) away because preserving western civilisation is of paramount importance and if trump is the vehicle that sparks the western defence (so it seems) then so be it.

Why do you only list Islam? Why do you allow Judaism? Both require killing those around them if offending their God. Even the books swapped into the bible from Judaism support these death to the unbeliever commands. Perhaps a better education renders radical views obsolete? Certainly oppression makes them real and powerful. As always, during a crisis humanity is doing exactly the worst thing we could do. During the black plague they killed cats. Yay stupidity!

The media have painted a picture for you that has made you afraid of a specific group. You should fear them if you are truly responsible for the meddling in their world. I see the fear in America, in so many posts here. There is an underlying theme of guilt because the American population did not stop their oil and financial sectors from abusing the world. Because you didn't see it, and life was good, why stop them from "aquiring" wealth?

I do not see the American public as the guilty party. You need to bring this up constantly because your enemy has painted you all with a single brush. The financial sectors were directly to blame since money is truly America's God and they followed the money into a bees nest. However, the enemy they awoke is pointing at the American people.

Where is the investigative journalism that should have this on CNN and point out the guilty parties? Your media are not investigating anything anymore. I haven't seen real news in ages. Money is controlling your media and it's probably the same money that was being made off your enemy.

The people that brought this to you will take the money and leave. They have placed the blame on America and made you fear an enemy, getting you worked up so you will fantasize the enemy around you. You will begin mistreating specific religious groups who all have a book that says to kill you when you do this. The media have placed a gun in your hands and all you need to do is pull the trigger. So you elected Donald Trump.

America is being made a patsy for a fall. Americans are considered loud and annoying over a large part of the world but their capitalism has profited them, it's shiny surface has attracted the greedy from all over the world. How can the world tell which Americans just want a safe happy life and which are specifically drawn to America by greed and the lure of capitalism?

I've tried to explain this bogged down in religious terms because your current enemy sees capitalism as your religion, money is your God. The people who took advantage of his homeland worshipped money so much they were willing to spill blood for it. They are steeped in tradition, spilling blood for religious reasons they truly excel at. In the eyes of your enemy, you are all guilty and it will last forever. Now, instead of hiding under a blanket of lock downs and boot heels, solve this problem.

You can repress and oppress religions if you wish them to grow. To kill a religion you must expose the root. I think there are still people worshipping Odin, good luck with stamping out religions.

The only solution is an embrace of love and peace. While rebuilding their world go and find those guilty for profiting off them underhandedly. And while your generosity and love have them looking the other way provide education. Help take this belief out of religion. Show them how to live united and stable, if America can do that. Show them that their god is so small he has to get humans to kill for him and so poor he must instruct his followers to kill and rob others as he cannot provide. It's a huge order. I see a clear path through this for America, it is not the path you are on.
 
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I wonder what it could be that made him so different from every president before him...
us-presidents.jpg


I just can't put my finger on it.

What bothers me about this illustration is that Obama won the majority of votes with the public, so shouldn't congress be a mirror of that? The public has gotten over its racism enough to vote for Obama. Why would Congress be any more racist than the general public? If anything, they are more educated and cultured. I would expect them to be less racist.

Spacejunk, I disagree with your opinion on using violence to combat racism and facism. If a nonviolent appraoch using education and reason is no longer enough to win, then society has degenerated past a point of no return.

Ryan, I think it was you, I agree wtih you that some Asian countries like Japan and China are xenophobic and I believe that makes them racist. Their immigration policies reflect that. Because of their deeply entrenched culture of xenophobia, they might not be nice places to live compared to the West for anybody other than an Asian and a native. The difference between America and them is that America was founded based on immigration. Immigration made it a great country. Immigraion within reason (not open borders) will help America.

what23: I think it's normal to feel self-conscious around other cultures. You need to be on your toes so you can detect and react to culturally different social cues. It makes some people uncomfortable.
 
What bothers me about this illustration is that Obama won the majority of votes with the public, so shouldn't congress be a mirror of that?
not necessarily. presidential and house/senate votes are discrete.

take a look at this map of just one congressional district (the north carolina 12th):

nc12.jpg


gerrymandering much?

alasdair
 
Spacejunk, I disagree with your opinion on using violence to combat racism and facism. If a nonviolent approach using education and reason is no longer enough to win, then society has degenerated past a point of no return.
Perhaps 'society' has degenerated past a point of no return?

Seems like a fair description of the state of politics in January 2017 to me.



I mean - really - it's come to this?
 
Perhaps 'society' has degenerated past a point of no return?

Seems like a fair description of the state of politics in January 2017 to me.



I mean - really - it's come to this?

Their definition of "fascist" is very broad. From the south London antifa site:
" However, there will be no tolerance for views or behaviour amongst members that is bigoted and is deemed to be:
Racist
Xenophobic
Sexist
Classist
Transphobic
Homophobic or biphobic
Ableist/disablist
Queerphobic
Anti sex-worker/whorephobic
Engage in victim blaming or promotes the idea that culpability for rape, sexual assault and interpersonal violence can be diminished by certain circumstances."
Worse, they are justifying violence as a way to disagree with those people. They're extremists and I think their methods only bring out the worst in both sides.
 
What is the difference b/t homophobic and queerophobic?

lol, nobody is afraid of antifa. They are cowards who only attack from behind or when they have numbers. And they still get owned.
Lmao yep. Did you see all those antifa members whining on /pol/ about facing jail time? They were trolled on 4chan into really ramping up there efforts at the inauguration. Then apparently members on the board flooded the Feds with fake threats by antifa fucking things up at the event. Well the bulk of them were rounded up in a massive sting and are now all facing felony charges. 4chans political activism is truly something to be admired IMO
 
not necessarily. presidential and house/senate votes are discrete.

take a look at this map of just one congressional district (the north carolina 12th):

nc12.jpg


gerrymandering much?

alasdair


I worked for a democratic organization that gerrymandered districts for democrats, when I asked why were were sinking to that level, I was told "well the republicans do it so we have to too".

You will see just as crazy districts for democrats, and more over both parties are just two sides of the same coin.

Hopefully people will stop identifying with political parties, hopefully people will be more interested and be ore involved vote on the individual instead of a generic platform.

Unfortunately the democratic party seems to be veering more left and progressive and that doesn't resonate outside major cities.
 
I don't "reason" with racists.
Sorry if it's confronting to know that "the left" aren't all liberals. I daresay it's time to wake up.

i am. you're just annoying as fuck because you don't live in reality and every time you go on one of your little rants or this it's like i'm watching a cartoon. it's like you've got your own story going on in there. so much drama. you seem to enjoy yourself. it'd be interesting to be a psychiatrist and get to know you. ...also, you'd get slaughtered. so would other "antifa", and honestly, i'm kind of hoping for it. hope you're all rounded up. i now see why it happens every so often - you're right; some people just can't be reasoned with. good thing most of the people with the big guns are white racists ;) (and with the know-how).
 
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the district i used in my example - the north carolina 12th - is a democratic district and has been for a long, long time.

oh? you just assumed i'd post an example of a republican district? :)

alasdair

When I think of modern gerrymandering I think of Tom Delay and the republican party.
 
i am. you're just annoying as fuck because you don't live in reality and every time you go on one of your little rants or this it's like i'm watching a cartoon. you'd get slaughtered


I live in a community with people from all different faiths, backgrounds, ethnicities that i interact with on a daily basis.
It's as peaceful and harmonious a community as i could hope to live in, given the amount of stupid sectarian and historical beefs that exist in the world.

I'm not sure what your mental image of me is - but i'm not exactly living a sheltered existence.

Around here, though - things are different. There are plenty of rough parts of Melbourne that you wouldn't want to be parading around as a white supremacist.
"You'd get slaughtered", as you so kindly put it :)

I do very much live in "reality" - but it goes without saying that what i perceive as my reality is probably different to what you believe to be yours.

I'm talking about resisting the attacks on our various communities by whatever means we have at our disposal.

Communities need to stick together.

Race politics only serves to divide people who should be sticking together to prevent sociopathic oligarchs like Trump from being able to take control of the world's most powerful government.

You've been had.
 
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Ha, that video made me giggle a bit. Shrieking babbling fools. :D

The left really lose me at times like this.

There is no use in legitimising fascist politics by attempting to engage it in discourse. It is not ok, and that is why all efforts to push fascism into mainstream acceptance is being met with strong opposition.

See, I find this acceptance of totalitarianism quite troubling. If you will not use reason, the debate is automatically and literally lost. A society in which certain forms of discourse are supressed because they are seen as 'dangerous' is a society heading to authoritarian dictatorship. Who determines what discourse we can have? How do we prevent the conversations that we do wish to have? For the latter, we prevent these things with violence- for the former, it is determined by those most willing to use violence. Debating something, and doing it well, will not give it mainstream acceptance- it can completely derail and debase it. Using force sweeps things under the carpet, but does not destroy; it can empower the inherent contrarian in us all.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

With the exposure given to the glorious smack in the head (sorry - two smacks in the head) mister hitler hair-do got on Jan 20th, i hope that other nazi hipsters (nipsters) think twice before spouting fascist bile in public.

You seem kind of gleeful about this act of violence. Given the fact that it is succesful in supressing opposition, it is no wonder that fascists use it too. Have we already lost?

Personally, I think the most anti-fascist thing you can do is to do the opposite to the actual fascist morons. You should note that heaps of people oppose the way Antifa conduct themselves. Isn't the point to try and get more people on the same side?

If debate worked - it would be the tactic anti-fascists would use.
But we have a century of experience with these sorts of thuggish demagogues - and the only way to resist them is to do so as forcefully as possible.

How do you know debate doesn't work? How do you know violent resistance does? I do not think your idea is borne out by history. I do not think protest movements like Antifa have ever really had a substantial impact on, say, the removal of a fascist government. Targeting black metal bands is not resistance! Its suppressing art and freedom of expression. Debate does not empower both participants; the point of a debate is to determine a winning ideology.

You know I love you spacejunk <3 I just think that avoiding debate and insisting that force is the only solution is a dramatic admission of defeat. Why the fuck should we play by their rules? I'm genuinely curious as to why you see utility in violent acts. Can you see how these actions can galavanise opposition- for when reason is thrown out the window, it can be seen as tacit admission of defeat and inadvertantly empower opposition.

Of course, I have a much stronger anarcho streak than I do communist which I see as another attempt at mind control by a dominant Strong Man State.

The only solution is an embrace of love and peace. While rebuilding their world go and find those guilty for profiting off them underhandedly. And while your generosity and love have them looking the other way provide education. Help take this belief out of religion. Show them how to live united and stable, if America can do that. Show them that their god is so small he has to get humans to kill for him and so poor he must instruct his followers to kill and rob others as he cannot provide. It's a huge order. I see a clear path through this for America, it is not the path you are on.

Good post. I sincerely hope (but do not think) love will be enough. I think we are at war with our baser programming- mainly that of males- which insists that complex issues can be solved with force. The problem is, that idea has a fair bit of credibility. Force is effective at imposing ideals.

That's why it scares me to see people willingly throw away their right to debate others by claiming it cannot work. They are, of course, correct and this means we will never have stability because the next Silverback will always come about with bigger fists to impose his version of reality on the rest of us.
 
Sorry, my point was that the behavior of people like those in the video do nothing but stigmatize ppl away from their political ideology.
 
I didn't vote for Trump. I voted for Stein, and she is rather left. Just not annoyingly.

You don't know how I conduct myself in my community. Just this past weekend I made a point to give a black woman a cannabis cap because she asked my friend and I if we had a cigarette, and weed. I forgot I had the caps, and like them, so i wanted to share the experience. She seemed to want me to sleep with her, also, and then seemed to ask for more when I gave, but I didn't want to give more or sleep with her. I just wanted to share a good experience. I didn't care about her race, although, if she were white (especially), and pretty, I may want to get closer to her. This is one of the big things -- I am not mean to anyone, and never have been. I don't agree with the way so called white-nationalists think things can go, or how they speak about things, most of the time, although I resonate with them, like I resonate with people from all parts of the spectrum, often. In my mind is a constant argument, and it's never really done. I go left and right, and constantly try to reason, but when I come here and see the polarized perspectives such as yours, and others, that so obviously do not touch necessary bases for me (and don't seem to be "reasoning", even in their own perspective, other than standing on a perceived moral high-ground), I feel so tempted to interject with something. When I read, simply, "diversity is our greatest strength"- I have to challenge that, and I think anyone comfortable with it should be open to a true look. Nobody comfortable within their skin is afraid of the light.

I am all for helping people, as much as is possible- without compromising myself. The only way I am good with doing that- with compromising myself is for someone I absolutely love, or something I absolutely love, and those are usually family, white people, western civilization, or whatever civilization that is the highest around me/society. If I were spending time in an African village, with a face-book friend of mine (or city, he lives in Lagos), and if Boko Harem came in and attacked a school/his family, I would go to war with him against them. It is definitely circumstantial, but in the face of mass immigration, and the flooding of the west with the Muslim and "third" world, I stand for this civilization, my family, and the long-term interests here. I'm for helping, but I see that immigration doesn't really do anything, long-term, except bear some of the brunt, perhaps, and help a few, for a time, but then they're in an alien culture, with corrupted identities, and insane politics that will use them, and many issues arise. I'm for working within our limitations, as tribalistic, imperfect humans.

Another example, of my horrible conduct as a person: Black man walks by me on Inauguration day. I may be in my car typing a post that paints me as a violent racist. He asks me for a quarter, and I find none, but then ask him what he wanted. He wants to get a drink for his mom, as she is diabetic and needs something sweet, he said. He was getting paid Monday- It was Friday. So I take him inside to buy him a drink- whatever he wanted (not that I was going to buy his weekly groceries). I didn't do this with any kind of "I am a great man for helping the black man"- attitude. I do things for myself.

Most my my interactions with them, however, like this have been to help them (and they often keep coming back to your resources). My desire to not want to become so tied to them is in part due to the way the relationship becomes a dependent one, largely, for whatever reason, or unequal. I'm for helping others, and I wish all areas to be successful and well-fed, and happy, so as my friend has said, they stop feeling the need to produce too many children- for one.

Anyway, I'm also not living a "sheltered" existence- not that I am out socializing constantly, but I do recognize patterns that I have an affinity for, and don't, and mass immigration as it is happening doesn't align with 'good', to me. It is odd to me that the left so hates, or antifa so hate's "fascists", but advocate because of their perceived victimhood, for Muslims, who practice an ideology that if they are actually following it, instructs them to do evil against others. And as if this just doesn't matter, because they're vulnerable (so we must be too...).

I "help" these vulnerable more than they have ever helped me, on the surface. I understand this is largely privilege, but I don't think it should just be thrown away, or that it wasn't given to me to protect, and pass on as well as possible, intelligently, naturally. I don't want to become parasitized, by other people, cultures, or systems.
 
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I didn't like Trump's unwillingness to see reality in a few areas, mainly to do with the environment. I don't know about climate change but certainly I can see, personally, due to environmental illness (I have to wear a mask with charcoal around a lot of industrial chemical things, like carpet, new cars, air fresheners), that unchecked industry/pollution isn't on my side. I couldn't consciously vote for either of the main two, so I gave my vote to a third party that knew what an Allepo is.

I read/heard something about how giving them a certain amount of the vote might work out for the next time around, in some way. My decision was more of a moral one. Couldn't trust either of the two. Was relieved Trump won, however. He was what I considered damage that we could sustain. Clinton was not. It was still hard to vote for him, hence Stein (weed).
 
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