Misc L-Lysine + GABA?

[Swimmingdancer]

This may be an obscure question, but does anyone have any knowledge or experience with mixing GABA as a supplement with l-lysine? Is it safe to mix the 2? There has been some suggestion that lysine potentiates benzodiazepine and/or GABA receptors, so if one were to take it with GABA would that mean that you would have more GABA and your receptors would also be more sensitive to GABA?

Also, I have read that GABA does not cross the blood brain barrier well, does that make taking it as a supplement pointless?

 

[sekio]

Its unlikely that taking lysine wil produce many systematic effects. Its a dietary amino acid after all.

As far as I can tell GABA supplementation is mstly placebo.

 

[Thanatos]

GABA supplementation is essentially useless and devoid of benefits. It doesn't have the ability to pass through the b.b.b and as such is almost completely wasted. I've got a pretty solid supp stack but I never use GABA. L-Lysine as we both know, is quite usefull in conjunction with things such as valerian or even on its own.

What were you lpoking to achieve with the combination? And yea, it is very safe, many supplements actually come with the two compounds in conjunction with each other.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

My psychiatrist told me to take GABA, he says if you take huge doses of it some of it will pass the BBB, and the rest will bind to GABA receptors outside the brain and still have an effect. But I haven't actually felt any difference and taking huge doses seems excessively expensive. There is also a particular type/brand of GABA called PharmaGABA which supposedly absorbs better or something and according to the manufacturer has been proven in clinical studies to have calming and relaxing effects, but I haven't been able to find any such studies so I am skeptical.

L-lysine on the other hand, does have studies supporting it's psychoactive properties and I definitely notice effects from it.

I haven't been taking the GABA lately because I didn't feel like it was doing anything and I am notoriously bad at remembering to take supplements unless they have noticeable and immediate benefits. I just asked the question because I had taken some lysine and was then thinking of taking some other supplements, and then I thought, oh if lysine increases the effects of GABA, would there be a synergistic effect to taking the l-lysine and GABA together. I didn't really think it was actually dangerous, instead of saying "safe" maybe I should've said could the effects be more intense than expected. Was just wondering if others had tried this combo and what people thought about GABA in general.

 

[Thanatos]

Your psych told you to take GABA? That's quite an expensive suggestion that is very unlikely to work. We're you just looking for anxiolysis or help falling asleep at night? With supps you have to be ultra consistent but I really don't think GABA is going to do much for you.
Keep going with the L-Lysine, I would say take a gram in the morning and maybe 2.5 grams at night if you are looking to get more pronounced effects.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah, it's for both anxiety and insomnia, he suggested a number of things but the GABA didn't seem to do much; I tried taking it for about a month. I am finding the l-lysine helpful so I guess I'll just keep taking that. I just have a bunch of GABA sitting around so I was wondering if it might have some synergistic effect or something, but the consensus seems to be that GABA probably doesn't have much of an effect. However there have been some studies such as this one:

After 60 minutes of administration, GABA significantly increased alpha waves and decreased beta waves compared to the control of water. These findings denote that GABA not only induces relaxation but also reduces anxiety. The second study was conducted to see the role of relaxant and anxiolytic effects of GABA intake on immunity in stressed volunteers. Acrophobic subjects crossing a suspended bridge as a stressful stimulus showed significantly higher levels of Immunoglobulin A (IgA) levels in their saliva while placebo group showed marked decrease of their IgA levels. [Source]

That's a good idea to try taking extra lysine at night.

 

[DJHENRU]

im confused about gaba not working? to an extent to converts to ghb and is stored in specific areas of the CNS doesnt this do something?

 

[Gyrospeck]

Lysine helped me reduce my benzo intake from 1.5mg Klonopin + 1.5mg Xanax IR per day to .5 Xanax once per day with almost no withdrawal. I continue to take anywhere from 1 gram to 3 grams of Lysine in a day.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

This is an old thread but if nothing else, for search purposes I wanted to add a couple things. GABA does not appreciably cross the BBB so to echo what others above have said, it IS mostly useless as a supplement. There IS a supplement however called picamilon that metabolizes to GABA and niacin that is able to cross the BBB which can produce an anxiolytic effect. Phenibut is another readily available supplement that can produce profound anxiolysis and sleep induction however you have to be careful with dose-size and frequency given its propensity to produce physical dependence. At the right dose, 2 hours after ingestion phenibut will knock me out and give me the best 8 hour sleep I've ever received.

I would love to see source information on lysine being psychoactive as I haven't found anything on that. I googled the 2 terms and the 5th result was ta BL thread! The preceding 4 were about other drugs such as lysdexamfetamine.

I take the absolute upper limit of lysine that is considered safe, 9g/day and I have never experienced psychoactive effects. It does work on 5ht receptors in the intestines which is why it has notable anxiolytic effects. It can effectively stop that nervous feeling in your stomach (or 'butterflies'). Do you have any information on lysine affecting GABA receptors? When I googled 'lysine' and 'gaba' this thread was the second result!

 

[Gyrospeck]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/639620-Nutritional-amp-Herbal-Supplements-for-Anxiety!

You can read through this thread. Many of the article abstracts deal with Lysine.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^^I would say it probably varies a lot from person to person, perhaps depends on how much anxiety you have/what kind, and is a subtle effect, but I can definitely feel it even from 1g. Also it does potentiate benzos.

There are some studies. Here's some excerpts:

L-lysine is a barbiturate-like anticonvulsant and modulator of the benzodiazepine receptor. L-lysine enhanced the activity of diazepam and flunitrazepam and increased the affinity of benzodiazepine receptor binding in a manner additive to that caused by GABA. L-lysine has central nervous system depressant-like characteristics. Enhancement of [3H]FTZ binding by L-lysine was increased by GABA. The results suggest that L-lysine acted at the same site of the GABA/benzodiazepine receptor complex. This article shows L-lysine to have a central nervous system depressant characteristics with an anti-PTZ seizure activity and an enhancement of [3H]FTZ binding similar to that of barbiturates but different from GABA. [source]

A combination of L-lysine and L-arginine has been documented to normalize hormonal stress responses in humans with high trait anxiety. A week-long oral treatment with L-lysine (2.64 g per day) and L-arginine (2.64 g per day) significantly reduced both trait anxiety and state anxiety induced by cognitive stress battery and decreased the basal levels of salivary cortisol and chromogranin-A (a salivary marker of the sympatho-adrenal system). These results confirm the previous findings in humans and animals and point to a combination of L-lysine and L-arginine as a potentially useful dietary intervention in otherwise healthy humans with high subjective levels of mental stress and anxiety. [source].

Let me know if you want some more.

I've stayed away from phenibut so far because I've read here on BL about numerous people getting dependent on it. Never heard of picamilon before and not sure if it's available here, will look into it, thanks

.....
EDIT: And thanks Gyrospeck (didn't see your post before I posted this). Looks like you've done a lot of research I will def check out that thread. And I'm glad lysine helped you lower your benzo intake, that's great.

.....
EDIT 2:

im confused about gaba not working? to an extent to converts to ghb and is stored in specific areas of the CNS doesnt this do something?

Although GABA can be converted into GHB in the brain, it is unclear whether orally administered GABA is converted to GHB.

 

[jambabomba]

Good that you gave that information about Lysine. GABA definately effects receptors outside brains but also on pituitary wich is outside BBB to induce GH secretion. Lungs has also GABA receptors so that might be reason why there is temporarily nasty shortness of breath sometimes in bigger doses (+5g). It induces muscle relaxation and some relief to me but not usually mental effects much.

I must now really try that Lysine if it would also help me on my benzo withdrawal.

When speaking those 5ht receptors in the intestines maybe this would be one possible explanation to my experiences with opioids and whey or milk. When I have consumed some opioid with benzos and when peak effects are allready diminishing I often take big amount of whey or milk. About 50g of protein and soon after that I get new pronounced high! This isn't placebo I have noticed it everytime through the years. If you haven't tried it you could be positively supprised by it but usually only if stomach is relatively empty to start.

But maybe one explanation could be that Lysine from those proteins affects those 5ht receptors? And off course body allso gets new aminoacids to make new neurotransmitters. Allso have been thinking if it induces some enzyme activation in liver.. Or what would be reasons for that effect?

Edit: I have Lysine but now I found it was best before 2008. Should I try it...hm..

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I have Lysine but now I found it was best before 2008. Should I try it...hm..

More on the rest of your post later, but yeah it should be fine to take expired lysine. Only thing I could forsee is maybe it might have lost some potency, but it shouldn't be unsafe or anything. If you are going to take lysine on top of your regular benzo dose be careful. One of my friends who did this said it greatly potentiated his benzo (to the point of calling me at like 3am to tell me how great lysine was and not remembering doing so, when his normal dose was usually just enough to alleviate withdrawals). But YMMV of course.

 

[ErgicMergic]

As stated above, GABA supplements don't give you any psychoactive effect, due to their inability to cross the BBB.

To me, L-Theanine is everything people are looking for in GABA supplements, and it has many positives when taken as a supplement, such as being nootropic, crossing the BBB quickly, increasing amounts of relaxing alpha waves, lowering high BP, and antagonizing NMDA receptors. The NMDA antagonism is verry important in GABAergic withdrawal, to reduce GABAergic-withdrawal-induced excititoxicity leading to damage to the brain and psyche as a whole.

 

[jambabomba]

I can confirm that Lysine works. Yesterday I took it 1,5g and first I got little panic feeling but soon after I was allmost nodding and muscles were relaxed. Before that I had took 200mg tramadol, 7g phenibut, 300mg Lyrica and 0,5mg rivatril. So the effects were really boosted.

Today when I woke up with anxiety I tried it on empty stomach and it did worked

 

[jambabomba]

To me, L-Theanine is everything people are looking for in GABA supplements, and it has many positives when taken as a supplement, such as being nootropic, crossing the BBB quickly, increasing amounts of relaxing alpha waves, lowering high BP, and antagonizing NMDA receptors. The NMDA antagonism is verry important in GABAergic withdrawal, to reduce GABAergic-withdrawal-induced excititoxicity leading to damage to the brain and psyche as a whole.

Yep, that what I was thinking also. Used L-theanine during my withdrawals (also DXM, NAC etc.) but now when I tried L-Lysine I might say it is more effective at least so far. I might use Lysine with theanine instead of DXM for now on. Today after lysine has had an effect I also took taurine 5g, l-theanine (its propably both L and R isomers...) 600mg, noopept 30mg, aniracetam 500mg, 400mg magnesium citrate, 200mg L-dopa, some coffee and strong cocoa and anxiety is far gone and I'm ready to study!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

To me, L-Theanine is everything people are looking for in GABA supplements, and it has many positives when taken as a supplement, such as being nootropic, crossing the BBB quickly, increasing amounts of relaxing alpha waves, lowering high BP, and antagonizing NMDA receptors. The NMDA antagonism is verry important in GABAergic withdrawal, to reduce GABAergic-withdrawal-induced excititoxicity leading to damage to the brain and psyche as a whole.

Yep, that what I was thinking also. Used L-theanine during my withdrawals (also DXM, NAC etc.) but now when I tried L-Lysine I might say it is more effective at least so far. I might use Lysine with theanine instead of DXM for now on. Today after lysine has had an effect I also took taurine 5g, l-theanine (its propably both L and R isomers...) 600mg, noopept 30mg, aniracetam 500mg, 400mg magnesium citrate, 200mg L-dopa, some coffee and strong cocoa and anxiety is far gone and I'm ready to study!

Cool, I haven't tried l-theanine in a long time, I will get some