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Opioids Kratom, WDs, and PAWS (I feel like I'm taking crazy pills)?

CaptainKratom said:
List of meds that are good to keep around for kratom withdrawal...

-Tramadol (this is only used for a rapid taper for it's longer half-life and low mu agonism, 1 weeks use MAX)
-loperamide
-Methoxetamine/ketamine/DXM
-baclofen
-phenibut (3 days use max IMO)
-etizolam (or benzos in general, etiz is just dirt cheap)
-gabapentin
-pregabalin
-Soma (carisopradol)
-kava (works for some but not me)
-clonodine

I'm currently 5-6 days clean from kratom, my withdrawals are basically gone, just the occasional chill and insomnia. The gabapentin/baclofen proved to be the most beneficial combo ever...Seriously the easiest kick ever, without a doubt. Hope you make it through to the other side, stay strong! Oh and make sure you don't switch addictions obviously, cycle your meds responsibly.
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In my experience, loperamide either delays some of the WD symptoms, or has withdrawal of its own. I'd still recommend it, since it really helps take the edge off RLS. I'll take it for about a week after quitting kratom before the WD symptoms fade. Once I stop taking the loperamide, additional symptoms manifest that take another week to fade. Although more drawn out, I like this method better than taking nothing at all to ease WD's.

MXE is fucking wonderful for kratom withdrawal. It either masks WD symptoms, or puts you in a state where you just don't care. Easiest/best option, if your life allows a bit of MXE intoxication. MXE is sort of habit forming in it's own right, though. I'm pretty sure it's not physically addictive, so if you use it right it can make WD a walk in the park without leading to just another addiction.
 
If you use lope correctly it won't delay my withdrawal very much at all. Just use it as a helper, not the sole comfort med. It's when people eat 50+mgs for weeks on end that you gotta worry about running into problems... 16-20mgs will help your withdrawals quite a bit without providing significant mu agonism to really prolong your withdrawals. Yeah you'll still probably be in withdrawal but duh, your not gonna get better by supplementing with another opioid 8). You also wanna taper with it too, don't just think you can eat huge doses of lope for a couple weeks and walk away scott free, it is an opioid afterall. I personally don't use lope anymore as I've got a shitload of other comfort meds that work better but if you don't have access to the stuff that I do than lope can be a lifesaver IMO, just don't depend on it. Keep in mind that if your taking doses of lope high enough that your 100% withdrawal free your not really letting your receptors restore.

As for MXE, yeah, MXE is was one of my top remedies for withdrawal (not anymore though).. doesn't take much either. Just 10-15mg bumps throughout the day really take the edge off. It certainly won't help you sleep though. MXE also potentiates opiates and supposably regulates tolerance. MXE can be habit forming for some but I struggle to grasp how someone can want to be dissociated all day! It's probably the least functional addiction one can have. I kinda hate dissociatives though, almost as much as stims so I'm quite biased. I only keep it around as an addiction tool, I've had the same gram for like a year now. Probably the least addicting psychoactive I have around.
 
Flaga121 said:
I kicked it and went back on not long after, because I love Kratom. My advice is to be taken with a grain of salt, I used a pharmacological regiment to quit, won't work for anyone without some real self control.

I went from Bupe to about 3 tea spoons a day (No more then 10grams/day) of Kratom. Then I started taking single days off using Phenibut. then I turned that into two days, still using Phenibut. On the third day I went sober to avoid building a Phenibut tolerance. Then on the fourth I went back to Kratom using half of what I had been using before. After doing this three times I was clean. I remained clean a week before starting on the Kratom again, though not daily anymore.
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Ive heard alot of talk about kratom, Ive never used it, but Im curious if it produces an opiate-like feeling? Do you get that no pain anywhere feeling along with the mild euphoria?
 
Kratom produces opiate like effects equivalent to about 30mgs of oxycodone max IME, some may disagree and have their own number. It's an effective pain reliever though there are definately more effective opioid pain relievers. It has 24? alkaloids so it's effects are unique to other opioids. Kratom is more stimulating than opiates and has a ceiling effect where the good effects get less pleasant and the side effects increase. For more info refer to the Kratom megathread a couple threads down the index.
 
[can't ask that sourcing question here] i have some phenibut but i dont like taking it due to how addicting it is and honestly it hasnt worked as well as i had hoped-- last time i took 2g's and it didnt really do much, although the first time i took 1.3gs and i felt it a lot more than the time i took only 2.

are gabapentin and baclofen just as addicting as phenibut? im about to use kratom again to get off h and then ill prob need something to help me get off the kratom...
 
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Well they're both physically addicting, that I know but IMO Phenibut causes more problems than baclofen which is weird being that they work so similarly and baclofen is more potent. What I can say is 3 days on phenibut (1-2 grams) will give me some minor rebound effects and 7-9 days of 1200-2400mgs of gabapentin and 25-50mgs of baclofen produced zero rebound effects, ymmv.
 
I never had a problem coming off of Kratom, until I used Kratom for coming directly off of an oxycodone habit. Then trying to quit kratom from there was a bitch and a half... until I discovered gabapentin that is. When I took gabapentin it worked AMAZING. A little Immodium and a little phenibut on the first night or 2 if you can't sleep, plus the healthy eating, vitamins, fish oil, exercise, all worked like a charm. A little rhodiola towars the end to handle the rebound anxiety/depression at the tail end of Kratom withdrawals really helped too.
 
Hey y'all,

I've been tapering down off the kratom, and yesterday I thought I'd experiment with gabapentin and loperamide (with 10mg Flexiril in the AM and PM, along with Tagamet for the lope), to see how well they'd handle my withdrawals.

It worked remarkably well! I only dosed with kratom once that morning, and I went over 30 hours without it (I start to feel withdrawal just a few hours after dosing)...I'm feeling a lot more confident now, not as scared as I was.

I'm down to my last 30g of Bali...I hope to be completely done with tapering and the withdrawals in a week.
We'll see what happens!
 
MissAmazingRachel said:
Hey y'all,

I've been tapering down off the kratom, and yesterday I thought I'd experiment with gabapentin and loperamide (with 10mg Flexiril in the AM and PM, along with Tagamet for the lope), to see how well they'd handle my withdrawals.

It worked remarkably well! I only dosed with kratom once that morning, and I went over 30 hours without it (I start to feel withdrawal just a few hours after dosing)...I'm feeling a lot more confident now, not as scared as I was.

I'm down to my last 30g of Bali...I hope to be completely done with tapering and the withdrawals in a week.
We'll see what happens!
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I'm actually doing the same this week and I have some etizolam in transit. Loperamide really does work wonders. For me, I only need maybe 20mg at first and then 10mg for the rest of the week after which I stop. I did this a few months ago and went 9/10 days without kratom with no real problems, mostly just depression. As Captain and others have pointed out, it still is an opiate and my tolerance was still there albeit much lower. How much loperamide did you use yesterday?
 
MissAmazingRachel said:
Hey y'all,

I've been tapering down off the kratom, and yesterday I thought I'd experiment with gabapentin and loperamide (with 10mg Flexiril in the AM and PM, along with Tagamet for the lope), to see how well they'd handle my withdrawals.

It worked remarkably well! I only dosed with kratom once that morning, and I went over 30 hours without it (I start to feel withdrawal just a few hours after dosing)...I'm feeling a lot more confident now, not as scared as I was.

I'm down to my last 30g of Bali...I hope to be completely done with tapering and the withdrawals in a week.
We'll see what happens!
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Nice. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
 
muskolo said:
I'm actually doing the same this week and I have some etizolam in transit. Loperamide really does work wonders. For me, I only need maybe 20mg at first and then 10mg for the rest of the week after which I stop. I did this a few months ago and went 9/10 days without kratom with no real problems, mostly just depression. As Captain and others have pointed out, it still is an opiate and my tolerance was still there albeit much lower. How much loperamide did you use yesterday?
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Eh, quite a bit, I'm afraid - 12mg, three times (am, afternoon, and before bed)...I definitely feel like I could've gotten away with less; I just didn't know it'd take that long to kick in and thought 'maybe I haven't taken enough Tagamet and lope?"...so, my next foray, I think I'll try just 12mg in the morning and another 12mg at night for the first few kratom-free days.

This makes me sound stupid but I'm literally on google right now and can't find a freaking straight answer - is etizolam legal in the states? I'm looking up possible vendors, legal status, all that shit, and can't find anything.
 
It is legal in the states and I sent you a PM with more information. Usually I wait to take the lope until I feel the wd before taking the lope but this time ill take it about 8 hours after my last dose to make it an easier transition. Of course you have to make sure you've been regular for a few days to prevent any possible problems. Someone gave me some great info and advice at the lope mega thread. Ill try to find it for you.
 
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MissAmazingRachel said:
Eh, quite a bit, I'm afraid - 12mg, three times (am, afternoon, and before bed)...I definitely feel like I could've gotten away with less; I just didn't know it'd take that long to kick in and thought 'maybe I haven't taken enough Tagamet and lope?"...so, my next foray, I think I'll try just 12mg in the morning and another 12mg at night for the first few kratom-free days.

This makes me sound stupid but I'm literally on google right now and can't find a freaking straight answer - is etizolam legal in the states? I'm looking up possible vendors, legal status, all that shit, and can't find anything.
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You did the right thing with tapering. The last time I used lope to get off kratom I was doing miniscule amounts which made it much, much easier. 24 hours after my last dose I took 18mg and then 14mg that night. This morning I took 20mg but I still feel pretty shitty. Physically, there's not much w/d to be spoken of but I feel very weak and psychologically I'm having cravings which I haven't had before when using lope to get off kratom. The only thing I can figure is that not tapering caused this to much far rougher than it needed to be. That, and the added etizolam. Etz can work well but has always caused me depression as a side effect.

So, I'm scrapping this go at it and will give my body a good 24-36 hours to get as much lope out as it can before going back on kratom to start tapering off. After a few weeks, I'll go at it again. Tapering and a little bit of lope should do the trick, I think.
 
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MissAmazingRachel said:
Hey y'all,

I've been tapering down off the kratom, and yesterday I thought I'd experiment with gabapentin and loperamide (with 10mg Flexiril in the AM and PM, along with Tagamet for the lope), to see how well they'd handle my withdrawals.

It worked remarkably well! I only dosed with kratom once that morning, and I went over 30 hours without it (I start to feel withdrawal just a few hours after dosing)...I'm feeling a lot more confident now, not as scared as I was.

I'm down to my last 30g of Bali...I hope to be completely done with tapering and the withdrawals in a week.
We'll see what happens!
Click to expand...

Yeah you will be fine, tapering off Kratom itself is much easier when it is not directly connected to a real opiate habit. Either way, gabapentin worked wonders for me. Don't use too much lope though... because it's an opiate too and you don't want to prolong withdrawals any longer than need be especially if gabapentin does the job on its own. Rhodiola (Sunny Mood pills) helped with the anxiety/depression starting on the 4th/5th day for me and carried me through the rest of the week. That was my experience at least.

In any case, it sounds like you'll be fine, congrats and keep up the good work :)
 
Mercy. I think this is the longest I've stretched 30g of kratom since I started taking it in November. And actually, it wasn't a whole 30g - since I knew I'd be quitting, I ordered three 10g samples from my vendor, and when I measured them out, they came to just under 26g...that's almost what I used to take per DAY.

I've gone down to one, MAYBE two not-quite-full tsps of kratom a day since I last posted. I dose with kratom a few hours after I wake up, dose with a few loperamide and 400mg gabapentin a few hours after that (to prevent withdrawal ahead of time), then dose with more lope and 800mg gaba in the evening, and it holds me wonderfully till the next morning.
How NICE it is to wake up in the morning and NOT be in withdrawal...they're usually so intense that they actually wake me up 1-2 hours before my alarm goes off and I lay in bed fighting to get back to sleep...that's freaking crazy.

I'm down to my last 1 1/2 tsp, which I'm saving for tomorrow morning...I'm still kind of nervous about hauling off and being off kratom completely, but, I really think this is going to work.

I think I'll start cutting the lope out around day four or five...I'm not sure if that's enough time or too much time; guess we'll see!!
 
Glad to hear things are working out for you, stick to your guns and you'll be clean in no time :). Imo though you should raise your gabapentin dose to around a gram or above, you should be able to skip doses with ease when on higher amounts of gabapentin. Also, ibuprofen and caffenated beverages supposably increase the bio-availability as does staggering your doses.

Ps. I totally feel you on the ability to sleep a full nights rest without waking up in withdrawal. Now that I quit kratom I can actually remember what a full nights rezt feels like and it feels really good. The think about kratom is it has a short half-life of ~3.5 hours iirc so I would wake up at least twice throughout the night, sometimes three.
 
The first time I quit h using kratom I tapered over 2 weeks got down to low amount takin kratom twice a day. I dropped off and used lope (small amounts like 8mg a day for 2 days) and then quit that and it worked great. After relapsing on h a buncha times and trying the same thing kratom is a bit less effective....first day sucks but by 2nd day im pretty good tho def not getting high off kratom just maintaining. Just an fyi first time I took kratom I had like 10g bali after a heavy 2 week binge of h and It actually got me noddin for a lil bit. After that I took smaller amounts just to maintain. Once I took 3-3.5 g of bali and I swear I got as high as I did like a decade ago when I first had 2 norcos when I had no opoate tolerance that was the best. Anyway nowadays even ifni take like 12g of bali or maeng da I dont really get high. And trying to drop off is a little harder. I am now down to taking a small amount in the morning and small amount before bed. Its hard because I take a small amount (like 3g) and when it syarys kickin in and I start getting that "glow" I have a very hard time not taking more trying to get high. Anyway the main symptom I get from kratom wd is RLS especially in the mornings when I wake up early n stary rolling around I gotta go take a gram or so at least and within 15-20 min im ok. Got sum etizolam which helps with a lot of wd symptoms but not rls so def thinking of trying gabapentin since thays supposed to work on rls right.
 
^^ gabapentin does indeed help with the RLS, and for me, it helps with that skin-burning sensation and ugly, vein-y rash. A decent muscle relaxer with the gaba at night does away with 99% of the muscle pain.
 
Hey, y'all, what's the time frame for lope addiction?

I've searched this site, opiophile, the drugs forum, and all everyone talks about is the lope withdrawal, because they've been on massively high doses for 1+ years...I'm wondering how LONG it takes to become addicted and start experiencing withdrawals - a week? Two weeks? And, at what dose? - as high/low as 20mg a day? 10mg a day?

Because I've been using about 15-24mg a day (split between AM/PM) since the 6th, and now I'm hideously paranoid.
 
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