treezy z
Bluelighter
If kratom detox became common knowledge the solution to the "opioid crisis" is right here
... Fucking big pharma lobbyist can burn in hell
... Fucking big pharma lobbyist can burn in hell
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Kratom Kratom Megathread V.2
- Thread starter deficiT
- Start date
Pickledlemons
Bluelighter
Yeah I wouldn't say its the 'solution' but it is a safer alternative to street drugs. Banning it makes absolutely no sense (if your goal is to protect the public). Such a ban would make the opioid crisis worse.
Ziiirp
Bluelighter
"Relapsed" (not really an adequate description) deliberately after 12 weeks of abstaining after 4.5 years of daily use. I also did not take any other drugs besides caffeine, green tea and beer (0-3 at night) for 10 weeks.
Retrospectively Kratom withdrawal was much easier than I thought it would be. It is mostly mental and is for the most part just a behavioural habit rather than a drug dependence. There was no PAWs for me and the acute wd only lasted 1-2 weeks, depending on how you define the acute part. I had leg pain for maybe 1 week and another week of feeling weakened like in the very first stages of a mild flu. I had no signs of depression (difficult to judge yourself, though), even though I did not take any related substance to substitute the Kratom with.
Why I chose to take it again ? Because it is the safest drug out there for me as long as you keep the doses reasonable. I plan to not take it daily anymore, as that would ruin a healthy relationship with the drug. Let's see how the next wd goes. %)
Retrospectively Kratom withdrawal was much easier than I thought it would be. It is mostly mental and is for the most part just a behavioural habit rather than a drug dependence. There was no PAWs for me and the acute wd only lasted 1-2 weeks, depending on how you define the acute part. I had leg pain for maybe 1 week and another week of feeling weakened like in the very first stages of a mild flu. I had no signs of depression (difficult to judge yourself, though), even though I did not take any related substance to substitute the Kratom with.
Why I chose to take it again ? Because it is the safest drug out there for me as long as you keep the doses reasonable. I plan to not take it daily anymore, as that would ruin a healthy relationship with the drug. Let's see how the next wd goes. %)
In my experience... kratom does not get one high as opiates do.
More like if one is feeling pain... one may notice the lack of pain on kratom.
For opiate withdrawal... one may notice the absence of WD symptoms.
For anxiety... one may notice the lack thereof.
For low energy... one may notice fatigue is replaced with enthusiasm.
For a bad mood... one may notice a more outgoing attitude.
The word may is italicized to indicate the subtlety of kratom. IMO, kratom is not a "drug" to abuse and get "high" on but to balance or stabilize ones "issues". Hell; it's even got a fail-safe: One gets uncomfortable or even sick from ingesting too much (but no permanent or life-threatening events ensue).
Not championing kratom by any means; just giving an opinion on the tree that many either do not "get" or do not want to. It is a great therapeutic option (IMO) to harsher substances that claim the same effects (and a great deal cheaper at that).
If one is looking to get "high" on kratom, one may be quite disappointed....
More like if one is feeling pain... one may notice the lack of pain on kratom.
For opiate withdrawal... one may notice the absence of WD symptoms.
For anxiety... one may notice the lack thereof.
For low energy... one may notice fatigue is replaced with enthusiasm.
For a bad mood... one may notice a more outgoing attitude.
The word may is italicized to indicate the subtlety of kratom. IMO, kratom is not a "drug" to abuse and get "high" on but to balance or stabilize ones "issues". Hell; it's even got a fail-safe: One gets uncomfortable or even sick from ingesting too much (but no permanent or life-threatening events ensue).
Not championing kratom by any means; just giving an opinion on the tree that many either do not "get" or do not want to. It is a great therapeutic option (IMO) to harsher substances that claim the same effects (and a great deal cheaper at that).
If one is looking to get "high" on kratom, one may be quite disappointed....
Pickledlemons
Bluelighter
Yeah thats kind of my experience. I was able to get off for 10 days without that bad of a withdrawal but due to emotional turmoil in my life... I decided to get back on because otherwise I knew I would end up using harder drugs. And at least this way there's no chance of me ODing on fentanyl. I do have some trouble moderating my doses. It seems the WD relief went from 5 hours to 3 hours and sometimes even 2 hours before I get the impulse to redose. So I usually take it 3-5 times a day when it was originally twice. Around an ounce a day. How much do you take?
Pickledlemons
Bluelighter
I think high is a relative term. For me if a substance makes me feel happy and motivated I would call that getting high. And kratom certainly does that for me.
Right you are. My "high" would be more akin to being completely removed from where I am in present time... hopefully incoherent and possibly unresponsive. Not responsible (and maybe outright foolish) usage but why stop at a tingle when one can feel the surge? Insanity. Been breaking away from this behaviour for the good part of a decade. A little antsy now but I feel "normal".
Kratom basically takes me back to a younger (less adulterated) time in my life > some would call "base-line".
Life/experience, it would seem, has brought lasting injuries and chronic pain (both physical and mental). I have become "damaged" and in need of crutch(es). Wish it weren't so but would not change one thing if there be a choice.
I realize this is not directed am me:
These days my dose is 2 gram (green) in AM / 1-2 gram (green) every 2-4 hours at work as needed / 2 gram (dark red) around 6 PM > repeats as necessary - daily
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
. Perfect for my schedule and plan on not quitting unless a dire health-issue arises.$ & oral (lol) here
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busted.produk
Bluelighter
I donated(a small amount) back in November and have a couple family members who donated this year after learning what kratom is and what the AKAs efforts are for.
LopLover
Bluelighter
I'm getting ready to try kratom again. Last time I had tapered off Sub down to a dose of 1/4 mg per week before bad withdrawals set in, but once they did they refused to go away, after some weeks. So I thought I'd try kratom to see if I could switch to it, since it's shorter acting, and if so, then taper off the kratom after I taper off the Sub. What happened then was I just started taking both of them together, so nothing changed. My doctor increased my dose to 1/8 mg daily, which keeps me feeling pretty good by itself. So I quit doing kratom for a while. Then, when I went to buy, my old vendor wasn't shipping any more. The next place I tried I didn't feel anything from their caps (I always get caps if I can.) at all. Good thing I didn't pay much. This time my old vendor still wasn't back, so I checked the ads and stuff at the Am. Kratom Assoc. and picked one that they seemed to like. They sent me a bunch of samples of different kinds in addition to what I bought, most of which I haven't tried yet. The first ones I tried were some kind of red vein, and at one point I started itching like crazy> I'd never got that way from kratom before. But it had to be the kratom, especially since I was doing a new kind of not eating anything different or anything else that might have caused it. What it felt like, if you've ever done this, is like doing a big shot of IV codeine. I used to do codeine shakers and really liked them, but they always gave me a quick rush with intense itching and my skin would turn bright red all over. It only lasted a couple of minutes and then went away. This felt just like that--weird. Since that time it hasn't done anything remotely like that, but it's worked well to keep me out of withdrawals. I feel great in general, too. Again I might decide I like this stuff better, but since they're going to ban it soon I'd rather not get a habit on it.
Ziiirp
Bluelighter
I took 8-12g daily the last 2 years of daily use. Even then it stopped working eventually so ~10g/day is the Kratom "self medication medical index" threshold for me. If you use Kratom as a supplement for opiate WD, then higher daily doses can be appropriate. I would imagine the wd to be worse then, though.
Chris42393
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2016
- Messages
- 1,384
I just had some Red Borneo last night (7grams) that had me higher then 40mg of hydrocodone. It felt EXACTLY like an opiate. I was quite impressed actually. Ive tried Red Bali, Gold Bali, and Regular Bali with opiate type effects, but the Red Borneo, actually got me higher then my dose of Hydrocodone, got rid of all my pain as well and slept like a baby on it too. Definitely recommend it.
Ziiirp
Bluelighter
Chances are, that your product was laced with an extract then. Not unusual in the US. So called USA-Kratom, that is available in Europe is much stronger and feels a lot less natural. Not saying, that the US does not have proper, unadulterated Kratom. But the chances are higher to get a laced product there, which eventually also affects the popular opinion about the plant over there. I make sure, not to get in contact with "USA-Kratom" as it made me very sick (probably opioid overdose like sick) from a low dose trial once. Did not like the effects at all.
Chris42393
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2016
- Messages
- 1,384
Were you talking about me? I get my stuff from a very good/reputable dealer.
Pickledlemons
Bluelighter
Woah... just because his kratom made him feel good does not mean it was laced. Sometimes kratom gives me a type of euphoria opiates do not.
Ziiirp
Bluelighter
Just chimed in with my/others experience with so called USA-Kratom. AFAIK there are/were Kratom farms in the US, that genetically adulterated the Kratom (cannot comment if that is true, it felt totally different from usual South East Asian strains, nevertheless), which enabled it to have a higher concentration of certain alkaloids. At least that is, how it was advertised. But the overall effects profile sucked according to many European customers, that were used to natural, unadulterated Kratom.
This (genetically engineering) would cost way more than the profit margin would allow ATM or anytime in the near future as kratom prices are going down. The cost of tinkerin' with genes is not something any firm would consider unless there be a return. Sincerely not being an ass - maybe devils advocate. Definately not trying to source anything but if the USA-Kratom kratom could be addressed in a general way in the open (say a link to a search that produces results) would be appreciated, as, alas; I come up with nothing. Unless one is referencing Mitrasafe... which I believed bombed out for advertising misrepresentations.
Weird question, but if someone ever did have a few kilos of Kratom do you guys think it would be easy to dispose of if you actually had to and weren't comfortable tossing most of it in the trash? (assuming it becomes illegal...)
I mean it seems like it would probably be just about the easiest drug ever to dispose of because of how earthy it is so even if one had several kilos over time, between flushing some, throwing some out and spreading some out in forests where it would just get mixed in with dirt, it would probably be super easy to get rid of right?
I mean it seems like it would probably be just about the easiest drug ever to dispose of because of how earthy it is so even if one had several kilos over time, between flushing some, throwing some out and spreading some out in forests where it would just get mixed in with dirt, it would probably be super easy to get rid of right?
Jekyl Anhydride
Bluelight Crew
I think it would be awhile before the distributors were banned from selling and laws against personal possession. Toilet? Forest? Why not the green waste recycling bin. Anyways we really don't delve into speculative legal discussion.
WITHOUT naming vendors (so I don't think I'm breaking rules here and if I am someone let me know...I've never heard of rules saying we can't mention credit card companies or pay pal...) has anyone had problems ordering Kratom using Visas, Mastercards or paypal lately?
Because on another forum devoted only to Kratom some users are saying that now Visa and Mastercard have a policy of never working with Kratom vendors anymore and that evidently paypal has been forbidden to work with Kratom vendors for over 5 years and that every time anyone has ordered Kratom using paypal it's because the vendor has an illegal work-around and that eventually anyone who uses those vendors will have their credit card accounts and pay pal accounts frozen.
Is this true?
Somehow I tend to doubt that it is IMPOSSIBLE to order through visa or mastercard with ANY Kratom vendor but I haven't ordered Kratom for 2 months, but about 2 months back a few times I used a paypal account to order Kratom through a mastercard with a certain vendor and had no issues and this poster on this other forum is saying that that is illegal and I'm just getting away with it for now but eventually my account will be frozen.
Is this true or is it bullshit??
Has anyone successfully ordered Kratom (don't name the vendor...) from any vendor within the past few weeks using a Visa or Mastercard NOT through a paypal account?
Thanks.
Because on another forum devoted only to Kratom some users are saying that now Visa and Mastercard have a policy of never working with Kratom vendors anymore and that evidently paypal has been forbidden to work with Kratom vendors for over 5 years and that every time anyone has ordered Kratom using paypal it's because the vendor has an illegal work-around and that eventually anyone who uses those vendors will have their credit card accounts and pay pal accounts frozen.
Is this true?
Somehow I tend to doubt that it is IMPOSSIBLE to order through visa or mastercard with ANY Kratom vendor but I haven't ordered Kratom for 2 months, but about 2 months back a few times I used a paypal account to order Kratom through a mastercard with a certain vendor and had no issues and this poster on this other forum is saying that that is illegal and I'm just getting away with it for now but eventually my account will be frozen.
Is this true or is it bullshit??
Has anyone successfully ordered Kratom (don't name the vendor...) from any vendor within the past few weeks using a Visa or Mastercard NOT through a paypal account?
Thanks.
Volsam
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2016
- Messages
- 908
Have not heard of a problem with ordering Kratom. Yet...
Sounds similar to what happens to nootropics market. Maybe FDA is pushing vendors to narrow their money channel and sales so it's easier to control?
Or just like with recreational MJ in US - sales are in millions but very few legitimate financial institutions are working with it.
EDIT: Holy shit! Kratom vendor I have been using now says that the store is closed and will remain so. WTF?
I'll email them and see if I can get some answers...
Sounds similar to what happens to nootropics market. Maybe FDA is pushing vendors to narrow their money channel and sales so it's easier to control?
Or just like with recreational MJ in US - sales are in millions but very few legitimate financial institutions are working with it.
EDIT: Holy shit! Kratom vendor I have been using now says that the store is closed and will remain so. WTF?
I'll email them and see if I can get some answers...
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