Opioids Kratom Mega Thread v. 5

[Mycophile]

I'm a little worried about the whole QT prolongation thing.

As I stayed earlier, I take Prozac, which in some cases is said to prolong the QT.

Apparently Bactrim can in some people too, but I can't seem to find a clear answer.

Also, it's said mitragyna prolongs the QT somewhat, but also effects potassium levels, which Bactrim can too?

I don't know, I feel over my head with all this shit. My anxiety is getting the best of me, but I also just wanna make sure I'll be ok.

Like I said, I've taken Kratom plenty of times on Lexapro and Prozac with no issues.

I also think the Web Md article is essentially saying that if you ALREADY have Long QT syndrome it could make it worse, NOT that it can cause it, AND they were talking about isolated Kratom alkaloids, not the whole plant.

As one knowledgable poster pointed out, Kratom has so many different alkaloids and some of them could possibly cancel out other effects of the others, so to simply isolate ONE of the MANY alkaloids in Kratom and then say it COULD worsen Long QT syndrome IF you have it is not a statement even REMOTELY close to saying if you DON'T have Long QT sydrome or a history of it in your family that the ENTIRE PLANT could CAUSE you to get it...but nevertheless no one can INSURE 100% that you "will be ok", it's just not possible.

Also I don't think you are speaking properly to say it "Mitragyna prolongs the QT".

I don't think that study showed definitely that it can do that, only that it could POSSIBLY effect those who already have Long QT syndrome.

I don't know much about Bactrim though.

I went through an entire freak out about that report myself and then stopped worrying about it for the aforementioned reasons and because I'd just so many times felt fine taking it.

I think you don't have much to worry about, but if you are that worried then just don't take Kratom.

You'll have to decide one way or another on your own.

 

[Ringo88]

Like I said, I've taken Kratom plenty of times on Lexapro and Prozac with no issues.

I also think the Web Md article is essentially saying that if you ALREADY have Long QT syndrome it could make it worse, NOT that it can cause it, AND they were talking about isolated Kratom alkaloids, not the whole plant.

As one knowledgable poster pointed out, Kratom has so many different alkaloids and some of them could possibly cancel out other effects of the others, so to simply isolate ONE of the MANY alkaloids in Kratom and then say it COULD worsen Long QT syndrome IF you have it is not a statement even REMOTELY close to saying if you DON'T have Long QT sydrome or a history of it in your family that the ENTIRE PLANT could CAUSE you to get it...but nevertheless no one can INSURE 100% that you "will be ok", it's just not possible.

Also I don't think you are speaking properly to say it "Mitragyna prolongs the QT".

I don't think that study showed definitely that it can do that, only that it could POSSIBLY effect those who already have Long QT syndrome.

I don't know much about Bactrim though.

I went through an entire freak out about that report myself and then stopped worrying about it for the aforementioned reasons and because I'd just so many times felt fine taking it.

I think you don't have much to worry about, but if you are that worried then just don't take Kratom.

You'll have to decide one way or another on your own.

Thanks a lot for the post Mycophile... I have really bad anxiety and OCD, hence the obsessing... I recently made a cut in my Valium, down to 6mg, do I'm sure that's adding to it as well. Also,

been on a lot of antibiotics lately which is also causing me anxiety, but I definitely have always felt fine on Kratom. I will continue to take this great plant, and just not worry. Thanks man!

 

[i are spectre]

Does anyone have analytical data on the different substituents of varying kratom colors? This seems to be real hard to find...

What I mean is quantified values for the alkaloid content of different strains. Thanks!

 

[SS373dOH]

^ @ I are spectre That would be nice. But there's over 40 active compounds in its leaves, and they vary in content from growing locations, even from plant to plant... Definitive results are difficult to procure. The general rule of thumb is white is stimulating, red is sedating, and green is a mix of both. Also a lower dose is more stimulating, while higher doses produce more opiate like effects.

 

[mike.vick]

Does anyone have analytical data on the different substituents of varying kratom colors? This seems to be real hard to find...

What I mean is quantified values for the alkaloid content of different strains. Thanks!

No. Maybe it is like the resin on cannabis flowers and changes chemistry & effect with color changes. Just know green is supposed to be the sativa, if you will, and red the indica - of kratom.

 

[Ringo88]

I am having allergy testing done tomorrow. Does anyone know if using Kratom could effect the results? I wanted to take some tonight.

Oh well, I've taken it yesterday, so might taking it tonight won't make a difference if it's gonna mess up the results. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.

 

[The Forgotten]

One; there is no standardized kratom testing procedure in place for drug tests. Two; if I'm not mistaken, there is a rule on non-discussion policies about drug testing in the BL forums. I'll look that up and link here when I find it.

 

[Mycophile]

I am having allergy testing done tomorrow. Does anyone know if using Kratom could effect the results? I wanted to take some tonight.

Oh well, I've taken it yesterday, so might taking it tonight won't make a difference if it's gonna mess up the results. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.

I don't know if it would effect allergy tests, but my eczema is pretty badly effected by Kratom.

Whether or not that's actually a Kratom allergy I don't know, cause I have bad eczema one way or another, and most days I take Kratom I won't have a flare up, but it makes them worse and more frequent.

In fact, most opiates/opioids cause itching and make things like eczema and sometimes maybe psoriasis worse.

But when I had allergy testing done they just tested my reactions to the common allergies: dogs, cats, pollen, etc.

They scratched my skin with small pointy things that had bits of cat hair, dog hair, pollen etc on them and then waited, and my arm was all red and gross where they scratched it, showing I am allergic to all those things.

But assuming they are doing a "scratch test", which is the only kind of allergy test I know of, they aren't going to scratch your arm with Kratom containing materials.

I mean people can be allergic to a billion things other than what they test for in those tests.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I am having allergy testing done tomorrow. Does anyone know if using Kratom could effect the results? I wanted to take some tonight.

Oh well, I've taken it yesterday, so might taking it tonight won't make a difference if it's gonna mess up the results. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.

It definitely could make some allergies appear worse than they really are. I wouldn't if I were you

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I've read that some people find it difficult to sleep if they dose too late due to the stimulation of some of the kratom alkaloids.

For those of you prone to this: How many hours between dose and sleep do you leave to avoid any problems with sleep?

Thank you.

 

[SS373dOH]

^ The duration needed will differ from each individual and strain.

To avoid the stimulating effects, avoid white leaf kratom and low doses. Typically lower doses give people the stimulating effects, while higher doses give the user more of an opiate like high.

 

[the last dose]

With bali i can take it at midnight and go right to sleep but this is the same time i would take my third dose of ops daily sleeping and waking up not in withdrawls always was a premium to me.

 

[mike.vick]

I find green strains (maeng da, kalimantran, et al) will keep me awake four hours after first alert (T+0:35, for me)
I haven't found the stimulation strong enough that some diphenhydramine+melatonin (perhaps distilled spirits or cannabis, if that's your speed) can't comfortably overpower/negate the stimulation

As has been said, though, strain and individual physiology will play a major role and make it difficult to give you an exact timeframe. I find even bali keeps me up for an hour or two while my stomach digests and metabolizes all that green goop?
Experiment! Getting to know this substance is a rewarding experience.

I don't find kratom as enjoyable to sleep on as full agonist opioids
Less noticeable afterglow the morning after

I don'tget ANY stimulation, from any strain, just maybe takes a bit more to equal reds...

 

[Ringo88]

Tried Maeng Da for the first time tonight.

Really, really enjoying it. Very potent, much more than any other strain I've tried.

I only took 4.3G, and have been feeling a great mix between clean energy and pain relief, with a lot of euphoria.

Really like this stuff!

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I find green strains (maeng da, kalimantran, et al) will keep me awake four hours after first alert (T+0:35, for me)
I haven't found the stimulation strong enough that some diphenhydramine+melatonin (perhaps distilled spirits or cannabis, if that's your speed) can't comfortably overpower/negate the stimulation

As has been said, though, strain and individual physiology will play a major role and make it difficult to give you an exact timeframe. I find even bali keeps me up for an hour or two while my stomach digests and metabolizes all that green goop?
Experiment! Getting to know this substance is a rewarding experience.

I don't find kratom as enjoyable to sleep on as full agonist opioids
Less noticeable afterglow the morning after

Thanks for the feedback nohandsjoe. I figured it would be different for each individual, tolerance, dose and strain. That's why I'm asking for personal experience. I've heard it's harder for some to sleep after dosing, just curious how long that is for those who experience it.

 

[Mycophile]

I've read that some people find it difficult to sleep if they dose too late due to the stimulation of some of the kratom alkaloids.

For those of you prone to this: How many hours between dose and sleep do you leave to avoid any problems with sleep?

Thank you.

I'm definitely one of those people and despite what 7-Nos said, for me it doesn't matter what strain I use or how much or little I dose I will still be super stimulated for hours.

I could dose an ounce of the most sedating red strain and I still can't sleep for hours (I'm actually one of those people who is skeptical about how much difference there really is between strains anyway and I feel like most strains feel similar to me and that the differences between strains is probably overstated...).

Over the past few years, my rule of thumb has been that my last dose has to have WORN OFF AT LEAST six hours prior to when I want to fall asleep, and that's really bare minimum and sometimes isn't even enough...7 or 8 is probably better.

And for me since Kratom takes 45 mins to kick in and lasts about 4 hours, that basically means, for example, that if I want to be asleep by 2AM then I won't dose later than around 3:15PM so that it's worn off by 8PM.

Honestly, if I'm 100% dead set on being SURE I can sleep I will probably take it early enough that it has worn off 8 hours prior to bedtime.

It's strictly a morning or early afternoon drug for me.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Thank you mycophile. I'm starting to realize i probably need about six hours as well between onset of effects and sleep.

Otherwise, I find it difficult to fall asleep and stay asleep. Too much residual stimulation.

I also agree that strain, for me, holds very little difference in terms of effects. But I have a high tolerance at the moment, which may be why I find it difficult to discern differences in effects from various strains.

 

[Mycophile]

^^^^

Yeah, I mean I've tried TONS of strains but usually they all feel pretty similar if not exactly the same.

It seems like 9 out of 10 Kratom users think strains play this HUGE difference but I really think a lot of it is placebo.

I remember a few years back Sekio the mod said he ran some tests on different strains and found their chemical compositions to be nearly identical.

I'd really LIKE them to be different because i think it would be cool, but so far I really just usually can't tell the difference.

I remember one time I took this Red Dragon from one vendor and thought that time it felt different and more like a classic opiate than the speedier strains which I often enjoy like Green Malay, and then I took a bunch of white strains from my vendor and didn't like them and felt them all to be much weaker than other strains.

Other than those differences, I haven't noticed many.

I think in a blind taste test you could tell me I took whatever strains you want, white, green or red, and i'd rarely if ever know the difference.

I wonder if we will ever have a way of finding out for sure if there's really a TRUE difference between strains or if it's all just marketing/placebo.

 

[mike.vick]

Funny you said you cant sleep mycophile- you could just have other shit your dealing with- some nights I have to dose before I lay down to sleep, if i'm hard up for dope

 

[Mycophile]

Not at ALL contradicting you, Mycophile, but I personally found that (for my current vendor) there are subtle (but still perceivable) differences between each end of the spectrum. That is, bali, ime, is noticeably different than, say, green malay. The variation wasn't apparent to me until I overdosed on both varieties (when I first found kratom I erroneously thought of it as a replacement for full opioid agonists- wrong!), but high doses of sedating strains feel much different in extremis than stimulating strains (again, ymmv! Just my experience )
I agree that the differences are overstated (/especially/ by vendors), but there are still variations, I've found?

That being said:
I couldn't discern aaaany difference between the few strains my last vendor offered. With my current v, the strains all have (subtly) noticeably different color and taste+effects.

Just my exp tho!

Yeah, I'm not saying there necessarily aren't differences, I just have a hard time perceiving them personally IF there are.

I'm just questioning it is all, and saying that the FOR ME the way people describe it typically as white as stimulating, red as sedating and green in the middle, as if this is just some rule of thumb that it is ALWAYS that way...almost like they are all different drugs, I just haven't found it to be true.

I kind of hope that it is true though, cause that would make it more interesting.

And of course personal chemistry plays a HUGE roll with drugs, just like some people can sleep right after taking Kratom and I can't sleep for hours after taking it.

There must be specific reasons why, but I have no clue what the are.