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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom Kratom Journal

That's an interesting sentiment regarding the fear of the unknown @pnillyg It's been so long now that I forget what it was like not knowing about the drugs I was taking. I'm so grateful for Bluelight, Erowid and everyone else who helped myself and others learn the correct information.

I read a story, I can't remember the full background, but it was in the 60's. Someone had overdosed on Heroin. The people around him or her believed that injecting Milk (like from a cow) into his veins would reverse the problem. The person allegedly died as a result of the milk being introduced like that.

Urban legends and myths were still big even when I was in High School. Everyone knew everything and they were 100% sure they did. Kratom is one of those newer substances that we're just now getting the full scoop on.

I see all over Reddit and the internet, people discussing the nature of Kratom as if it is still a mystery. The plant and its constituent Mitragynine(s) are Opioid agonists. They could be other things in addition to Opioid agonism, though this is the primary function of Mitragynine and is more than likely why it is taken in the first place.

I understand there is probably a lot of fear in knowing that the drug's availability is always in a precarious position. I've said in other threads that I'm totally shocked that Kratom has not been banned completely. This sort of shit is the DEA's bread and butter.

Good luck with the taper and let us know if there's anything we can do to help you out! You're doing great buddy.
 
Ok day 3 no kratom. Last dose was two mornings ago so not yesterday morning but the day before!

So far not terrible. I wouldn’t recommend it but not terrible…

1:00am - 300mg gabapentin

5:07am - 300mg gabapentin, 30ml dayquil

10:00am - 25mg ketamine SL

10:51am - 5mg THC edible

Let me know if I’m hitting the gabapentin too hard I don’t think I am… 900-1500 daily?
 
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Keif' Richards said:
That's an interesting sentiment regarding the fear of the unknown @pnillyg It's been so long now that I forget what it was like not knowing about the drugs I was taking. I'm so grateful for Bluelight, Erowid and everyone else who helped myself and others learn the correct information.

I read a story, I can't remember the full background, but it was in the 60's. Someone had overdosed on Heroin. The people around him or her believed that injecting Milk (like from a cow) into his veins would reverse the problem. The person allegedly died as a result of the milk being introduced like that.

Urban legends and myths were still big even when I was in High School. Everyone knew everything and they were 100% sure they did. Kratom is one of those newer substances that we're just now getting the full scoop on.

I see all over Reddit and the internet, people discussing the nature of Kratom as if it is still a mystery. The plant and its constituent Mitragynine(s) are Opioid agonists. They could be other things in addition to Opioid agonism, though this is the primary function of Mitragynine and is more than likely why it is taken in the first place.

I understand there is probably a lot of fear in knowing that the drug's availability is always in a precarious position. I've said in other threads that I'm totally shocked that Kratom has not been banned completely. This sort of shit is the DEA's bread and butter.

Good luck with the taper and let us know if there's anything we can do to help you out! You're doing great buddy.
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Well they are quite far , Germany rumored to be the one accountable.
They are hoping to illegalize it for whole Europe. First Khat & Kava, now Kratom.

No -dmestic shipments had allready stopped, online sales its sent under a false name [other plant].
And its not even technically illegal ?

Congratiulation s pnillyg
 
Sublingual ketamine and gabapentin were the tools I needed for the job. Definitely had the odd benzo and z drug but not in a few days. Now I miss that energy the kratom gave me. Trying to figure out how to get that energy and optimism back
 
pnillyg said:
Trying to figure out how to get that energy and optimism back
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I know I posted this a lot of times, but back in 2012 my wife quit kratom after 6 years of heavy use. She would shovel it in all day long. (50 + grams a day?) Then went CT. 4-5 nights of not sleeping well at all. Then the 5th night much better sleep. Then 3 weeks of lingering lethargy. You will get it back. And you are inspiring me to quit too. With exercise she was 100% by 6 weeks. Energy came back. But honestly it was the first few days that were tough and she jumped from a high level. Still not like a true opiate withdrawal. Like the little sister of morphine withdrawal. :) It has a ceiling effect.

I need to get off too although I have been so healthy being on it. But I want off so I can try other things with a clear head. And honestly it really is not to bad when I do stop a day or two. Gabapentin pretty much negates the whole crappy feeling. I have some ready for when I do jump.

Stay well pnillyg, you are doing great. I think the fear of withdrawal is worse than the actual withdrawal.
pnillyg said:
I am falling into a deep depression I haven’t experienced before… or at least this negative. Does anybody have suggestions?
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Moods change so ride it out. By tomorrow or a few days you may be in a different head space. Distract yourself with nature and binge watching shows.
 
Thank you and will do. Really considering going back on a small dose but going to ride it out “just for today” right… got a good show pulled up… I’m also worried about getting a gabapentin dependency as I have been using that 300-600mg 2-3x daily. Never had a dependence on it and see such mixed reviews as far as withdrawing from that goes…
 
That was in response to this btw ^^
JackARoe said:
I know I posted this a lot of times, but back in 2012 my wife quit kratom after 6 years of heavy use. She would shovel it in all day long. (50 + grams a day?) Then went CT. 4-5 nights of not sleeping well at all. Then the 5th night much better sleep. Then 3 weeks of lingering lethargy. You will get it back. And you are inspiring me to quit too. With exercise she was 100% by 6 weeks. Energy came back. But honestly it was the first few days that were tough and she jumped from a high level. Still not like a true opiate withdrawal. Like the little sister of morphine withdrawal. :) It has a ceiling effect.

I need to get off too although I have been so healthy being on it. But I want off so I can try other things with a clear head. And honestly it really is not to bad when I do stop a day or two. Gabapentin pretty much negates the whole crappy feeling. I have some ready for when I do jump.

Stay well pnillyg, you are doing great. I think the fear of withdrawal is worse than the actual withdrawal.

Moods change so ride it out. By tomorrow or a few days you may be in a different head space. Distract yourself with nature and binge watching shows.
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pnillyg said:
Ok I’m quitting kratom. I’ve done and quit about every other drug from benzos to bupe to oxy and now we’re on kratom. I’m over it. Today we start coming off. Keeping this as a daily journal so yall can hopefully see/use this to help yourself in any way applicable.

So far today halted my morning dose from about 12g kratom tea to 6g accompanied with 300mg gabapentin at 7:20am and again at about 9am.

This will be my journal. Let the games begin…

Today (day 1)

7:20am - 300mg gabapentin *too late I was already hella restless so need to take earlier tomorrow morning or before bed

8:20am - 6g kratom tea

9:43am - 300mg gabapentin *for anxiety

2:21pm - 6g kratom tea
300mg gabapentin *anxiety around election/wanting to quit kratom/girlfriend tripping about election

5:00pm - 3g red maeng da powder

8:58pm - thc live resin vape
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how are you getting on.ive been taking kratom for 16 years .never miss a dose,apart from when my wife forced me to go to spain .never slept for what felt like the entire hols.ruined it for everyone .diareeha was the worst and restless leg .couldnt suffer coffee and normaly i cant do without it .never taken any hard opiates but i honestly think kratom is not far off with withdrawels .we now only holiday abroad in thailand .theres a lovely little woman that sees me walking out from my hotel in the morning and has 2 litres of ice cold kratom tea waiting for me .i love the smile on her face ,when i walk up the hill in 35 degrees heat.i always pay her triple the cost so she knows to be there every morning.thats my sad life.a slave to a plant.i hope you manage to get off it i really do
 
pnillyg said:
I’m also worried about getting a gabapentin dependency as I have been using that 300-600mg 2-3x daily. Never had a dependence on it and see such mixed reviews as far as withdrawing from that goes…
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Me neither. I am prescribed it since 2016 but never took it daily. I skip many pharmacy runs, my doc basically said just pick it up when I want. These days I do it about 3 times a month at doses of 1500-1800 mgs. Here is the thing, before i researched it I was prescribed it for shingles. I took 600 mg a night for 2 weeks, stopped without issue. I used it for the shingles pain. (I was offered pain pills and I told my doc I can use ibuprofen and she said at least take the gabapentin and now they kept refilling it. lol) I honestly think gabapentin it way more forgiving than the few people that post their horror stories. In fact in one of the threads someone was taking 1800 mgs a day for 6 months and was nervous of stopping from reading posts. She updated it each day and had zero issue. The worry was for nothing. If you research through all the threads there were plenty of people taking their whole prescription then stop. Just wait for their next refill. However in my research here there were people that admitted doing that too many times caused issues stopping eventually.

Saying that stacking a bunch of drugs can be an issue to. It is hard to pinpoint which drug is causing issues. But to use gabapentin to get off kratom seems smart to me. To me kratom is the plain powder leaf. I make no statement on all the new fangled extracts nor do I think they are a good idea. Good plain leaf works. But I honestly think gabapentin (and probably pregabalin) are safer for short term use.If I were you I would skip a day or two, feel a little like shit then the third day relief with gabapentin. Then do that again. Skip some days. You have to feel somewhat out of sorts. The body will balance though.
 
swapping one drug for another would not work for me i would just get hooked on gabapentin.is it the same as pregablin ?i can swap kratom for dhc 30mg as long as im taking 60mg in morning and 120mg at night with a beer with no real ill affects ,but the tollerance creeps up on you .
 
lost weekend said:
swapping one drug for another would not work for me i would just get hooked on gabapentin.is it the same as pregablin ?i can swap kratom for dhc 30mg as long as im taking 60mg in morning and 120mg at night with a beer with no real ill affects ,but the tollerance creeps up on you .
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What is dhc??
 
pnillyg said:
I am falling into a deep depression I haven’t experienced before… or at least this negative. Does anybody have suggestions? Medications? Supplements? I feel like shit mentally and physically.
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This is the worst part about Kratom withdrawal for me and is always what makes me slip up. The first week or so is mainly physical efffects but weeks 2-4 have the mental effects. Anxiety and pretty bad depression. Just stay strong and don't listen to the depression if it tells you just one dose of kratom will help you feel better. It's the kratom withdrawal trying to get you back into. Just stay strong and keep pushing, after another week or two the depression will start to lift. i see you've been using ketamine, maybe try to utilize that when you're feeling particularly depressed. Maybe even try a higher dose of ketamine. Anything but Kratom

what is dhc??
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I'm fairly certain that they're talking about Dihydrocodeine
 
It's true that you can become dependent upon Gabapentinoids. It's also true that they produce a withdrawal syndrome that is known to be pretty terrible. The key is to cut yourself off at the appropriate time. I know as poly-substance users we can become addicted to a lot of different things. I feel for most of us though, our drug of choice will have a particularly strong pull on us, whereas Gabapentin, while pleasurable, is still something that you can put down more easily.

When I describe the process of using Gabapentin for withdrawal, I usually tell people they are on a 7-10 day time limit. I believe Gabapentin can be used for long(er) periods of time without issue. This is only if the dose is kept low. To mitigate symptoms of serious withdrawal people are usually taking 1,800mg-2,400mg per day right off the bat. This higher dosage, higher frequency usage typically leads to people becoming saturated with the drug by day 7 and feeling pretty much nothing by day 10.

I'm sure a person with some mild neuropathy can use Gabapentin for a long(er) period of time with success. Their symptoms are more mild relative to Opioid withdrawal though.

My point is that I have always seen Gabapentin (Neurontin) and also Pregabalin (Lyrica) to a lesser extent to be self-limiting. People become tolerant quickly by using high doses and the drug becomes ineffective. Most of my experience with the drug is in the context of Opioid/drug withdrawal so my view is probably somewhat biased.
 
Happy thanksgiving. Thank you for all the advice and support. Today I took a small dose of Kratom 2.5gs as the ketamine had been great but I have too many responsibilities and people to show up for today. I will return to the detox/withdrawal in a day or two. Hopefully it doesn’t set me back too far but that’s life I guess. I hope you all have a great day with great food.
 
Well yesterday ended up taking 8 grams and today 10 so far so I guess we’re back in it, but my depression is overwhelming I’m thinking about going on mirtazapine per the psychiatrist request… any advice or ideas? If the remeron (mirtazapine) works well enough I may be able to stay off the kratom and combat the lethargy with adderal and ketamine for the comedown
 
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