Kratom- How to Avoid Dependence/WDs

[Asparagus_Prince]

I am fairly new to Kratom but I've been loving it. I've heard some mixed reviews on whether or not it compares to Adderall and, for me, it does! I feel motivated and focused on the stuff. Never "high". Just confident and productive. I also like how I am able to sleep better at night on it compared to Adderall.

But I also know it's probably too good to be true. I'm sure there's a point where my tolerance increases, and/or I start chasing that dragon.

So I want to control it as much as I can. I take around 7-8 grams at a time and today is my 7th consecutive day using it. And I've been tracking how much I use daily. The past 7 days have been:

Day 1- 15 grams
Day 2- 30 grams
Day 3- 30 grams
Day 4- 7 grams
Day 5- 15 grams
Day 6- 7 grams
Day 7- 15 grams (so far. Will probably end up at 22 today)

Does that seem excessive? If I was giving myself 2-day breaks every week would you consider that enough to "control" it?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Kratom loses its magic fairly quickly as tolerance develops, but its stimulatory effects seem to remain due to its effects on adrenaline.

I highly suggest you keep your doses lower, those are quite high doses. Only dose as much as you need, there is a saying with kratom "less is more". The withdrawals from 30g/day are much worse than 7g/day. Dosing multiple times per day will also cause more significant dependence.

Kratom is highly addictive and the withdrawals are absolute hell (just as bad as real opioids and has its own nasty twist, SSRI/AP like withdrawals on top). Limit your use as much as possible. I am coming off an 8 year 30g/day habit and it's one of the worst withdrawals I've ever experienced. It's been 3 weeks and I'm still having protracted withdrawals. I would avoid daily use altogether.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Kratom loses its magic fairly quickly as tolerance develops, but its stimulatory effects seem to remain due to its effects on adrenaline.

I highly suggest you keep your doses lower, those are quite high doses. Only dose as much as you need, there is a saying with kratom "less is more". The withdrawals from 30g/day are much worse than 7g/day. Dosing multiple times per day will also cause more significant dependence.

Kratom is highly addictive and the withdrawals are absolute hell. Limit your use as much as possible. I am coming off an 8 year 30g/day habit and it's one of the worst withdrawals I've ever experienced. It's been 3 weeks and I'm still having protracted withdrawals. I would avoid daily use altogether.

Ugh... ok, and thanks for the post.

I didn't think my 30 g per day was "too" bad if that's the highest I go. But maybe I should start backing off.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Ugh... ok, and thanks for the post.

I didn't think my 30 g per day was "too" bad if that's the highest I go. But maybe I should start backing off.

30g is really quite a lot unfortunately, even though it doesn't really feel like a lot

dependence forms quite fast after just a month or two especially at those doses

I always thought kratom wasn't that addictive... until I tried to actually quit

cold turkey was 14+ days of absolute hell >_<

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

30g is really quite a lot unfortunately, even though it doesn't really feel like a lot

dependence forms quite fast after just a month or two especially at those doses

I always thought kratom wasn't that addictive... until I tried to actually quit

cold turkey was 14+ days of absolute hell >_<

If I stop tomorrow do you think I will WD based on those 7 days?

I've never used it 7 days in a row before, but I've had several 4-5 day runs.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

If I stop tomorrow do you think I will WD based on those 7 days?

I've never used it 7 days in a row before, but I've had several 4-5 day runs.

I doubt you'll have any withdrawal, maybe just some cravings. Withdrawals would start after about 1-3 months I'd say.

To avoid dependence I would stick to only dosing in the morning or whenever you need to focus, only once per day, and take at least 3 days off per week, 4 if possible. Dosing multiple times per day not only skyrockets tolerance but also quicker dependence.

Kratom dependence is deceptive because it doesn't feel as powerful as other drugs such as amphetamines or opioids, but the dependence is just as strong. Bit weird.

Kratom effects so many parts of the brain, opioid receptors, adrenaline, serotonin, dopamine, etc. It has a complex pharmacology.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

I doubt you'll have any withdrawal, maybe just some cravings. Withdrawals would start after about 1-3 months I'd say.

To avoid dependence I would stick to only dosing in the morning or whenever you need to focus, only once per day, and take at least 3 days off per week, 4 if possible. Dosing multiple times per day not only skyrockets tolerance but also quicker dependence.

Kratom dependence is deceptive because it doesn't feel as powerful as other drugs such as amphetamines or opioids, but the dependence is just as strong. Bit weird.

Kratom effects so many parts of the brain, opioid receptors, adrenaline, serotonin, dopamine, etc. It has a complex pharmacology.

Appreciate the responses. You're the same person that has talked to me about Kratom before, right? Just with a different pic now right?

I was going to wait until this weekend to take a break, but now I'm going to start tomorrow.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

You're the same person that has talked to me about Kratom before, right? Just with a different pic now right?

yeah

I always loved kratom for the last 8 years. It helped me stay sober from harder drugs for a long time. This kinda made me brush off it's side effects and addictive potential.

Quitting kratom after 8 years was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, just as hard as kicking heroin IMO in some ways.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

yeah

I always loved kratom for the last 8 years. It helped me stay sober from harder drugs for a long time. This kinda made me brush off it's side effects and addictive potential.

Quitting kratom after 8 years was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, just as hard as kicking heroin IMO in some ways.

So you've just quit recently then right?

One thing that I'm hopeful for (and I hope this isn't just me lying to myself) is that I've never had a problem with pain pills/opiods. I've popped them for the wrong reasons here and there before, but I've never experiences what a WD is like. I am prescribed Gabapentin but for over 5 years but I've been able to take them/leave no problem. I know that's not a controlled substance but I could say the same thing for any time I've had Norcos, Tramadal, oxys, etc, in my possession. Don't get me wrong... I like how they make me feel, but it's not my DOC. I tend to think that if I'm not searching to numb myself and/or escape from reality, then maybe that means I'm less likely to have a problem with them (or Kratom).

But I don't want to find out. One more 7 gram dose here in an hour or so and my break starts tomorrow.

One more question if you don't mind...

If I was to discover I am in fact having withdrawals and I want to taper down... do you think it would be best to take one 6 gram dose in one day? Or spread that out into three 2-gram doses over the course of a day?

(I am pretty good at sticking to taper plans)

 

[Snafu in the Void]

So you've just quit recently then right?

Yeah, 3 weeks ago. It was fucking hell for 2 weeks. I am starting to feel somewhat normal again but having really bad PAWS symptoms, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, anhedonia, etc.

If I was to discover I am in fact having withdrawals and I want to taper down... do you think it would be best to take one 6 gram dose in one day? Or spread that out into three 2-gram doses over the course of a day?

Take 6g in the morning is better IMO. Kratom withdrawals don't really hit until the 24 hour mark, so it's pretty easy to just get by until the next morning.

But again I wouldn't worry about withdrawal after only a week, there won't really be any. You just want to avoid in for the future.

 

[cdin]

I am fairly new to Kratom but I've been loving it. I've heard some mixed reviews on whether or not it compares to Adderall and, for me, it does! I feel motivated and focused on the stuff. Never "high". Just confident and productive. I also like how I am able to sleep better at night on it compared to Adderall.

But I also know it's probably too good to be true. I'm sure there's a point where my tolerance increases, and/or I start chasing that dragon.

So I want to control it as much as I can. I take around 7-8 grams at a time and today is my 7th consecutive day using it. And I've been tracking how much I use daily. The past 7 days have been:

Day 1- 15 grams
Day 2- 30 grams
Day 3- 30 grams
Day 4- 7 grams
Day 5- 15 grams
Day 6- 7 grams
Day 7- 15 grams (so far. Will probably end up at 22 today)

Does that seem excessive? If I was giving myself 2-day breaks every week would you consider that enough to "control" it?

super high doses. you are well into dependence territory if you keep eating that. it's an opioid, like any other. you cannot take it daily and not become dependent. once every couple of weeks max to be sure you are not starting the process of downregulating opioid receptors :/

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

super high doses. you are well into dependence territory if you keep eating that. it's an opioid, like any other. you cannot take it daily and not become dependent. once every couple of weeks max to be sure you are not starting the process of downregulating opioid receptors :/

Thanks, appreciate it.

Like NT said, it doesn't really "seem" like I've been taking high doses. But I guess I have.

The other thing that probably makes it seem that way is because the big bags of it that I bought seem to last forever. I still have quite a bit even though I haven't purchased any for 2 months.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

At that frequency and high dose range there is no way to avoid dependence. You may convince yourself you aren't getting"high" but that doesn't make the drug any less addictive, in fact it may make it more addictive.

Like others have said, kratom loses its magic quickly with this kind of dosing regimen, I have first hand experience having been addicted to kratom for over 3 years. You need to slow way down on your dose quantity and frequency if you want to stand any chance of avoiding a serious kratom addiction.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Thanks again all. I'm very glad I checked in.

This is a good example of why this board is here, IMO.

 

[Innerpeace]

Three days max a week

One three gram dose has me feeling it the whole day. I've been taking it once a week. Before that many months nths break. Most I've done when I first discovered it, I'd do three to four days a week at maybe five grams.

Your need to lower your dose then cut back to once a day then eod .

 

[simstim]

If you use all day everyday then you will start to gain tolerance eventually. This is unavoidable.

I was using 25g 4x daily (100g/day) the last time I kicked.

To avoid that you either have to only use like three days a week or never increase your doses.

You might benefit from using a smaller dose actually. I've always found low doses to be more stimulating and higher doses to be more opioid/drowsy.

Also, certain strains are more stimulating. In general greens are more stimulating than reds, and 'Bali' leaf always feels over stimulating to me regardless of the color.

I tend to like the least stimulating kratom. My favorite is Borneo red. I highly suggest that if you're looking for pain relief.

 

[jasperkent]

I am fairly new to Kratom but I've been loving it...

But I also know it's probably too good to be true...

Thanks for starting this thread. I've been on kratom for about 2 years (originally to get off opioids) and I haven't given much thought to the negative consequences. Currently I feel great and my increased dosage has plateued at about 30g to 40g per day (every day).

Apparently this is a high dosage. Frankly I don't mind being dependent for the rest of my life-- I'm a 62yr-old lifelong smoker, so I have 20yrs max left on this earth, probably less.

But then I got to thinking "what if this stuff gets banned?" I'd be screwed. Leave it to the goddamn DEA to fuck everything up. Assholes.

So I'm gonna try to cut back and will definitely stock up just in case. Anybody have experience with tapering kratom? I've attempted it with other drugs, with mixed results. I usually end up having to go cold turkey and stay abstinent for a while before I can safely use again.

I work a physically demanding job 4 days a week (cook in a very busy restaurant). I'll have a week's vacation in 4 or 5 months, but no breaks till then.

Advice?

PS--- I assume that kratom powder/caps can be stored in a freezer (to reduce degradation)?

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

It's ikely there will develop a dependence to this kratom if used daily. Just the nature of it all I think.
Knowing it can only get one to a certain "height" of relief, using it at lower doses can save on product/money, wasting good medicine and minimizing withdrawals upon cessation or otherwise coming off.
Using the lowest dose possible for maintenance reasons would be the only way I know to mitigate crippling dependence and subsequent withdrawals. This and only using every few days. Or not using at all. Surely there are more options but these would seem the most obvious to me, anyway.
Best of luck and be safe.
Peace

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@jasperkent I've always found tapering kratom to be very easy and painless, at least until you get down to very small doses

You could go from 30g to 7g in one day and not experience any wd symptoms other than cravings. At least that's been my experience. It gets trickier at lower than 7g.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Hey, sorry for hijacking this thread but you all sound very knowledgeable and I have a quick question...

About how many grams of very fine Bali powder do you think would be in a well-rounded teaspoon (the silverware kind, not an actual measuring spoon)?

I get the bad feeling that I'm taking way more than I realized, since I've been averaging about 10-15 of these big spoonfuls a day for many months now. Tomorrow I plan to start cutting down by 1-2 a day until I'm off. There actually have been a few days where I only took about 5 and felt fine, so I probably don't need nearly this much anyway (just the usual "more is better" mindset).

Hope you're all doing well. Thanks so much!

There is about 2-3g in a standard teaspoon, not sure about a silverware spoon

It does sound like you're taking quite a bit