Kratom Can Easily Hold a Candle to Opiate Highs

[revned04]

So I had been reading both on these forums and on that of other sites that Kratom is a half decent legal high, so I finally decided to buy some. Just for reference I have used opiates and am fairly associated with the high, but I haven't used a real opiate, OC, since August, and more recently I've been taking tramadol, but that was over a month ago. I decided to eat 8 grams, because I'd heard 10 was a pretty strong high, and from the oz I bought there would be two doses left, well HOLY SHIT. Within 30 mins it felt very strong and It was nauseating, not really because my stomach hurt, but my vision seemed kind of drunk. I also hadn't eaten anything all day so my stomach was empty. It was a very intense body high/ buzz, and I had to just sit down for a little while because of the body load. We then decided to go to the movie and I was feeling very fucked up, once I was sitting in the dark though I was extremely tired. I don't know what people mean with you not being able to nod on it, I was high as shit and easily nodding in and out. Maybe an hour after, I felt like I was going to puke, and went to the bath room and I was shaking, and couldn't really control it. My stomach was feelin really bad but I managed to just kind of breath it off, although I did puke a little later, I think it was just because I was so hungry and hadn't had any food all day .

So I guess I mean this as sort of a warning because everyone said this was a lame cousin to an opiate, but I was easily as fucked up as I had been from taking some oc, or methadone. Also 8 grams was way too much and when I did come down I took 2, 3 hour naps and still didn't feel totally normal.
Needless to say Kratom is an incredible legal high, and I am very excited to experiment more with it.
Also I didn't really notice the psychedelic aspect of it, but it did have the similar wakin sort of dream mind state that I would get when I did massive amounts of oc (I'm not sure if this is the best way to describe it, so maybe someone can tell me if theres a word for it)
On a side note, at one point I wasn't thinking straight and thought that they may have accidently mailed me a real opiate because it was so identical to the high, this freaked me out cause I'm on drug tests and really don't want to fail.

So anyway thats the deal from extremely low opiate tolerant person, and first time Kratom use

 

[ofukibenhearB4]

actualy kratom contians alkaloids that Are opiates becsaue they hit Mu receptor in the brain. when I first started eateing kratom it felt EXACTLY like popping norcos or some oxy the strongest high I ever got off it felt almost identical to 50-60 mg hydro, i mean euphoria wise, which is amazing cause ive never felt that good off it since, however It Does hold you just as well, there isnt that quick spike of euphoria like hydro but i think it lasts longer.
once you have a tolerance, you have to eat ALOT of kratom for effects. ill definatly take it over wd, or over darv or tram for taht matter though. infact i think it feels exactly like "Natural Tramadol" cause it feels up and anti depressant qualities at low doses
peace

 

[Mr Blonde]

Kratom sounds interesting; I'd like to try it but it's illegal here and our Customs is very good, especially when detecting plant material.

 

[ofukibenhearB4]

damn its illegal? thats so wild. damn I think Ive heard that in thailand it carries the death penality for possesion?!?!?
What the Fuck?

Kratom is actualy Really good shit, even if you have a tolerance. it has MARKED Really neat antidepressant/opie buzz when taken in small doses. (less is more) Tough, at higher doses it becomes more analgesic and sedative. its good shit and it will definatly keep wd at bay and is a good AD/painkiller
bali is the best for pain ive found
and thai or maly are the best for buzz/stimulation

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Yeah, and so is Salvia.

Oz has some tough drug laws.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they would do some nasty shit to you for possessing it in Thailand; I remember the crackdown they did on meth and people they killed then.

 

[ofukibenhearB4]

killed?!?!?!? FUCK!
yeah thats right I remember when australia was the Only place whre salvia was illegal. I thought it woudl never happen here. now three or 5 states made it schedule 1. fucking nuts.
fuck the drug war

 

[Fail Fighter]

Apparently my trip reports disappeared during the recent "upgrade"


But as I've previously said, my personal experience is that Kratom feels almost exactly the same as oxycontin. In fact, it's so similar that I can't think of a good way to differentiate the two highs.

And it's the same for my brother (who never does anything other than uppers). I convinced him to try kratom about a month ago and he ended up nodding out on the tea I made him from 10g of powdered leaves. Then a few weeks later, I gave him an OC-80 and he crushed and insufflated the entire pill (over the course of the night).

The next day he shrugged and told me that he would have guessed it was the same drug. So yes, kratom definitely has merit. However, it's not all fun and good. Each still has their pros/cons:

Oxycodone:
Pros:
- Can be snorted
- Can be IV'd
Cons:
- Costs roughly 18x its weight in gold

Kratom:
Pros:
- Cheap as dirt
Cons:
- Worst tasting substance I've ever encountered
- Stuck with oral MOA
- Pain in the ass to prepare


I never tried kratom again, simply because I'm obsessed with pills and I enjoy everything about them, including the ability to snort them. Dicking around with kratom for 30 mins (making tea, boiling it down in the microwave, filtering out the leaves) wasn't even worth it.

 

[Tchort]

The main problem I can see with Kratom plant material, or a Kratom extract, is that you would eventually hit a ceiling dose where it is no longer safe to consume more.

I don't know if any studies have been done on 7-Hydroxy-Mitragynine or even Mitragynine to see if they are the same as mu-agonist Opiates and most full mu agonist Opioids- that you can take as high a dose as tolerance allows without further ill effect. There are people who take several grams of Methadone a day; similar habits can be had with Morphine, Heroin, Fentanyl, etc.

With Kratom plant material and extracts, the other active alkaloids may prove toxic or deadly at high enough doses before relevant doses of 7HM or M could be reached. I guess this could apply to Opium gum and Poppy straw as well; Morphine can be taken in infinite doses if tolerance allows, but the dose of Opium/Poppy straw will eventually hit a wall because of the other alkaloids which could prove toxic or deadly after a certain point.

 

[palatka]

is this still legal in the US? if not, what's the consequences of getting caught with it?

 

[JahRed24x]

Kratom sounds interesting; I'd like to try it but it's illegal here and our Customs is very good, especially when detecting plant material.

Mr. Blonde are you currently really in jail??


PS - Stop blabbing about kratom, ur all gonna make it illegal.

we should come up with some slang for kratom that doesn't have anything to do with 'Kratom.' Like call it "M-9" or something.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Lol... no, it's a joke. I always say Oz instead of Australia, and one time someone asked what the hell I meant and JC made some crack about it either being the country or the fucked up prison with lots of rape. I remembered that today and liked it, plus I've been watching the show Oz a lot lately so I changed my location.

 

[triiper]

haha yeah i watched all those episodes. too much gay shit honestly but still really good.

 

[rachamim]

It is illegal in Thailand, Malaysia, Mynammar (Burma), and Australia at the moment. In the first 3 it can be a Capital crime so beware of your actions.

As for the substance, it is NOT an opiate/opioid. One constituient alkaloid IS opioid (7-hydroxy-Mitragynine) but is only present at less than 1 percent of the total weight. IF you could isolate that alkaloid it has a fantastic profile, much better than morphine many times over. However, its minute presence leaces the leaf itself classified as an Analgesic Indole.

Because of the tiny concentration, the plant has a dual effect. At lighter dosages you will get a more "speedy" feeling and with higher dosages the 7-hydroxy kicks in a tiny bit making it more sedative. As for opiate-naive users, etc, if you are an experienced user the chances are that it will be a total waste to even bother with.


TChort: Yes, studies HAVE been done, at Osaka and it is fully explored. Grreat little akaloid but it has to be isolated becaust irt is pretty much worthless in natural form due to the synergistic effect of the other garbage. Well, I should not say "garbage" just because I myself hate indoles but there you go.

 

[ellie]

Oh WOW! I sure hope they don't make it illegal in USA!!! This kratom got me off the hydros & I like the effects much better! Oh Lordy!! Help us all!

 

[Tchort]

Due to the low overall volume of sales and consumption, I doubt it is up for scheduling. A person would have to take a very large amount to overdose if they are non-tolerant, so I'm guessing overdoses are rare (data from Thailand/SE Asia might be a good indicator?). If 3 or 4 teenagers eat it and die, you can expect Emergency Scheduling. The reason Salvia Divinorum is scheduled in certain states and cities (like NYC) is that it was being sold in stores over the counter for the purposes of getting high, and was advertised as a Marijuana substitute. But again, sales and consumption is too low to be a concern for the Federals, plus it is all but non-lethal to a recreational user.

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

. As for opiate-naive users, etc, if you are an experienced user the chances are that it will be a total waste to even bother with.
.

why is that?

 

[rachamim]

TChort: Well, the DEA has already done 2 Intel Reports on it and I stopped shipping to the US because although it IS still legal they canned each and every one of my shipments for bullshi$ reasons (Alaskan Customs). This last trip to the States I even contracted with an Attorney specialising in Agricultural Imports to try and grease the wheels so to speak but no dice. It will be scedualed sooner or later. Then again if demand does not increase it just might stay the way it is but I see it increasing in popularity if my EU orders are any real barometer, even shipping to Africa (S. Africa) now.


Lux: "Why would it probably be a total waste for opaiet-naiee users?": Well, the same reason why codeine is a a waste. Our receptors change with heavy usage, and with time. There is a single opioid alkaloid, the one I talked about
(7-hydroxy-Mitragynine) but it is always less than one percent of the total mass and usually less than half of one percent.

Then, there have no been many solubility indexes done, or any actually and everything we know on its solubility is subjective. I grow it, so am able to experiment with quite alot. My mum-in-law, totally opiate-naive loved it. I never felt a thing and as I said have access to an unlimited supply.

In talking with many other consumers I hear the same thing. So it is not definite but an educated assumption that only naive people will enjoy it. It is one of those things that requires certain threshold dosages. The more you imbibe the more likely you are to gain an opioid effect.


I should add that a couple of experienced opiate users/addicts have told me that they find value in it as an aid to W/D but to my thinking that is merely psychsomatic. Sugar pills help if you think they will.

 

[ikkyu]

Due to the low overall volume of sales and consumption, I doubt it is up for scheduling. A person would have to take a very large amount to overdose if they are non-tolerant, so I'm guessing overdoses are rare (data from Thailand/SE Asia might be a good indicator?). If 3 or 4 teenagers eat it and die, you can expect Emergency Scheduling. The reason Salvia Divinorum is scheduled in certain states and cities (like NYC) is that it was being sold in stores over the counter for the purposes of getting high, and was advertised as a Marijuana substitute. But again, sales and consumption is too low to be a concern for the Federals, plus it is all but non-lethal to a recreational user.

This plant may not have the attention of the federal government yet but it is already an issue on the state level. Just this year kratom was considered for ban in Massachusetts but thankfully the bill was amended to include only Salvia divinorum and salvinorin A. I still think kratom could be banned on the state level in MA or elsewhere in the future, and when/if that does happen it likely won't be long before other states follow suit.

And don't think because kratom has a benign safety profile and its use is confined to a relatively small part of the population that it won't be banned. This is a matter of people taking their personal chemistry into their own hands with a legal high that actually does work as advertised, and governments tend not to approve of such deviant behavior. 8)

 

[GETYAGUN!!11]

i need to get a hold of some of this shit

 

[Lawrence]

Question

In term of analgesic effect, do you think kratom is better than Codein in equivalant dose ???