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Opioids Kratom and Opiates

Man in the Dark

Man in the Dark

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
531
Have a question. I am trying to taper off my prescribed pain meds and eventually come off. Can I use Kratom in the morning/ afternoon and my opiates at night. I am new to Kratom so any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
I have heard that Kratom helps with opiate withdrawals I'm not exactly sure to what extent but I do believe that it should help in some amount

I did a quick Google search and found this link it seems to answer your question with some detail to so I hope it helps

http://www.ilovekratom.com/kratom-news-blog/57-the-easiest-way-to-end-an-addiction-to-opiates

Also if u do end up getting some Kratom I hear Bali works the best for opioid withdraws
 
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It does work, but do still expect some withdrawal symptoms. Kratom mainly works on the delta opioid receptors, and not the mu opioid receptors, which the pharmaceutical narcotics work on. Try to keep your dosages of the kratom high, because at high doses, it does exhibit some mu activity.
 
Here is Alien47's link: www.ilovekratom.com/kratom-news-blog/57-the-easiest-way-to-end-an-addiction-to-opiates

As with any information here or elsewhere, remember what works for you, may not work for me, etc.

I am not arguing anyone's experience or facts, but in my honest opinion, depending on the drug, a lot is psychological. The more you put in to believing you are strong and can handle this, the "easier" subjectively, your withdrawal will be.

I have withdrawan from a few things. Some easy, some very heavy. The more positive energy you bring to your plan, it will definately help.

I hope this helps someone.
 
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Speed King said:
Here is Alien47's link: www.ilovekratom.com/kratom-news-blog/57-the-easiest-way-to-end-an-addiction-to-opiates

As with any information here or elsewhere, remember what works for you, may not work for me, etc.

I am not arguing anyone's experience or facts, but in my honest opinion, depending on the drug, a lot is psychological. The more you put in to believing you are strong and can handle this, the "easier" subjectively, your withdrawal will be.

I have withdrawan from a few things. Some easy, some very heavy. The more positive energy you bring to your plan, it will definately help.

I hope this helps someone.
Click to expand...

It does thank you all for the replies. I took some Red Vein Bali, didn't have a scale and did about a teaspoon and half. I felt no euphoria,had a slightly good feeling. I did not have a craving for my nightly dose which was very interesting,however I took it anyway, and I passed out about 3 hours after I Took it. I never fall asleep during the day or take naps. I can can barley sleep at night.

I am definitely going to use Kratom as a tool when I do my detox, unfortunately I have to wait a little over a month. I take anywhere from 30 to 50 mg of 15 mg ER morphine 5mg IR Roxis once a day usually around 4-5pm.I usally take one morphine and the rest Oxy. I have been on his dosage for just about a year stopped once for eight days but like an idiot went back. I am a CPP so it's a bitch. Last time I used Lyrica and my prescribed 3 mg of Klonopin per day and at times a few Xanax when I wasn't able to sleep and it definitely helped. That was back in February and my dosage was around 30 mg most of the time, now I hit 50 mg a few times.

I also take 150 mg of tramadol on occasions during the day and then about 25 mg of Oxy at night. I know the risks of Tramadol but it really works great with the Oxy. I also get such a great mood lift due to the SSRI factor and I am able to somewhat tolerate people and my family as I have a severe case of PTSD along with a long list of other mental health issues.

In your opinion how hard do you think my withdrawal will be. I totally agree with what you said about the drug dependency being psychological and having a positive attitude there's no doubt about that.

Thank you all for your advice is greatly appreciated
 
Man in the dark. Your on a pretty decent mix of pain medication. The tramadol is my main concern . I agree that tramadol works great with oxycodone. Opiates can lower the seizure thresh hold. Due to the SNRI effects of the tramadol and the stimulant nature of the Kratom, I would pick one or the other. If you plan on using Kratom, tread lightly and preferably lower or cease using the tramadol. Kratom still has effects that could potentially cause interaction. Be careful here.

Great posts by the way.
 
Thanks Speed King. I don't use the Tramadol if I use the Kratom. I use the Tramadol if I am at work or I have to be with my young son for an extended period of time without my wife. I know it sounds bad but I am responsible and don't take a dose that will put me in a state to where he is in danger. I just need to be in a more better mood as I have a hard time tolerating certain issues that my 7 year old has. I use the Tramadol maybe 3 days a week and have only used the Kratom once.

I need off the pain meds. The Oxy actually makes my mood worse after about an hour in. Hopefully the withdrawl won't be to bad as I can maybe take one or two days off. Last time I went off I worked but wasn't as deep into it at that point.

Thanks for the help my friend your advice is greatly appreciated.
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
It does work, but do still expect some withdrawal symptoms. Kratom mainly works on the delta opioid receptors, and not the mu opioid receptors, which the pharmaceutical narcotics work on. Try to keep your dosages of the kratom high, because at high doses, it does exhibit some mu activity.
Click to expand...

Thank you Blue.
 
I tried kratom wd'ing off Nucynta, did not help at all. If anything it increased the sweating and nausea. Which is weird since Nucynta supposedly does not affect the mu receptor either. Wish you the best man and just know it does eventually come to an end, and you'll end up feeling a lot better on average then when you were taking your scripts.
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
It does work, but do still expect some withdrawal symptoms. Kratom mainly works on the delta opioid receptors, and not the mu opioid receptors, which the pharmaceutical narcotics work on. Try to keep your dosages of the kratom high, because at high doses, it does exhibit some mu activity.
Click to expand...

Kratom alkaloids primarily act on mu and kappa opioid receptors

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18482427
 
HasToGetBetter said:
I tried kratom wd'ing off Nucynta, did not help at all. If anything it increased the sweating and nausea. Which is weird since Nucynta supposedly does not affect the mu receptor either. Wish you the best man and just know it does eventually come to an end, and you'll end up feeling a lot better on average then when you were taking your scripts.
Click to expand...

Nucynta is a potent mu opioid agonist. It was designed based off of the metabolite of tramadol O desmethyl tramadol



If kratom was a kappa opioid agonist it would be hallucinogenic. And at the mu site, it would be extremely more addicting than it is.

https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6341

https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6340
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
Nucynta is a potent mu opioid agonist. It was designed based off of the metabolite of tramadol O desmethyl tramadol



If kratom was a kappa opioid agonist it would be hallucinogenic. And at the mu site, it would be extremely more addicting than it is.

https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6341

https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6340
Click to expand...

In the peer reviewed study I posted, they actually solved the binding affinities of mytraginine to different receptors. If you read it, it shows that binding affinity to mu is one order of magnitude greater. After mu, kappa affinity is second highest.

Your article from erowid supposedly says that it binds predominantly to mu and delta (and your implying there isn't significant activity at mu?)

There are many potential mechanisms for kratom's less significant addictive potential compared to opiates, but there is well characterized activity prodeminantly ar the mu opioid receptor. Also, activity at kappa probably increase analgesic effect, and no that does not mean that it should be a hallucinogen.
 
Upon reading your article, I'm inclined to agree about the mu and delta agonism. But I disagree with the kappa opioid agonism.

No, I wasn't implying that.

Yes it does. Kappa agonism is psychotomimetic.
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
Upon reading your article, I'm inclined to agree about the mu and delta agonism. But I disagree with the kappa opioid agonism.

No, I wasn't implying that.

Yes it does. Kappa agonism is psychotomimetic.
Click to expand...

Potent agonism at kappa may produce these effects, but at the level of mytraginine's activity, it's going to synergistically add to the analgesia.
 
If it is second to mu agonism, wouldn't it have decent activity at the receptor, especially at the high dosages used?

The kappa agonism would also antagonize it's own agonism at the mu receptor in regards to euphoria and other subjective effects such as the antidepressant and anxiolytic actions.
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
If it is second to mu agonism, wouldn't it have decent activity at the receptor, especially at the high dosages used?

The kappa agonism would also antagonize it's own agonism at the mu receptor in regards to euphoria and other subjective effects such as the antidepressant and anxiolytic actions.
Click to expand...

As a measure for comparison, salvinorin analogues have greater binding affinity at kappa by multiple orders of magnitude relative to mytraginine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1805503/

As far as antagonizing its own activity, the reverse would also be true. I don't know enough about neurochemistry to really expand on how that might be relevant to the analgesic/euphoric effects.

If I remember correctly, tramadol and/or its metabolites also have mu + kappa activity that increases analgesia. Interestingly I've alsways gotten better pain relief from kratom and tramadol than stronger opioids like oxy.
 
Tramadol also has potent SNRI effects and NMDA antagonism that contribute significantly to it's antinociception, as well as its active metabolite, which has a similar potency to levorphanol.
 
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