Kratom Kratom and Naltrexone

[kiitah]

Hi- new poster, long time member here.

Today I start taking Naltrexone,- Dr suggested 25 mg for 4 days, then 50 mg, in pill form.

My issue is alcohol, but I was addicted to opiates for 5 years and smoked black tar for 1 year. (I bought suboxone off a friend and did titration every 4 days, for 44 days, and haven't touched it since 2016.) However, I replaced that addiction with drinking, and found kratom.

I still take between 10-15 grams of kratom dispersed over the day.

It didn't occur to me until after I picked up the rx that I might be in for a shit ton of pain and withdrawals because of kratom and the Dr doesn't know I take it. If I skip my evening dose, I go into kratom withdrawal in the middle of the night (restless legs mostly) if I don't take my third dose of enhanced, white kratom.

I searched the forums but there's not much info about what happens if you're kratom dependent and start naltrexone.

I wanted naltrexone to stay off alcohol, not to take away my kratom! Lol. Cry.

Am I in for misery? PWD? Last kratom dose was yesterday evening.

 

[negrogesic]

Withdrawal from 10-15g should be pretty minimal. However you say it is enhanced? How much so?

 

[kiitah]

Withdrawal from 10-15g should be pretty minimal. However you say it is enhanced? How much so?

"50 x", supposedly. Here's the description:
Specifically, this Enhanced Kratom is 90% Kratom leaf powder and 10% 50X extract, i.e. there are 100 grams of 50X per kilo of Enhanced Kratom. Our 50X Kratom extract is our most powerful full spectrum Kratom extract, and in-fact one of the most powerful Kratom extracts in the world, since it contains 4% Mitragynine and 0.4% 7-hydroxymitragynine. Essentially, 50X has both high levels of Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, whereas most Kratom extracts have almost no 7-hydroxymitragynine. Therefore, most Kratom extracts lack full spectrum effects, but the 50X we mix into the Enhanced Kratom has powerful full spectrum effects.

 

[negrogesic]

"50 x", supposedly. Here's the description:
Specifically, this Enhanced Kratom is 90% Kratom leaf powder and 10% 50X extract, i.e. there are 100 grams of 50X per kilo of Enhanced Kratom. Our 50X Kratom extract is our most powerful full spectrum Kratom extract, and in-fact one of the most powerful Kratom extracts in the world, since it contains 4% Mitragynine and 0.4% 7-hydroxymitragynine. Essentially, 50X has both high levels of Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, whereas most Kratom extracts have almost no 7-hydroxymitragynine. Therefore, most Kratom extracts lack full spectrum effects, but the 50X we mix into the Enhanced Kratom has powerful full spectrum effects.

Well that means your equivalent dose of plain kratom is quite a bit higher than 10-12g.

What's unclear is if they mean the blend contains 4% mitragynine or just the extract that is added. 50x would actually contain closer to 45% mitragynine by weight so I think they actually mean the enhanced blend is 4%, meaning the enhanced mixture is about 3x the strength of plain kratom.

This means you're taking the equivalent of 30g/day of plain leaf.

Long story short, naltrexone could precipitate withdrawal. Probably wouldnt be spectacularly severe withdrawal but withdrawal nonetheless.

Id recommend tapering down before jumping on the naltrexone.

 

[kiitah]

Well that means your equivalent dose of plain kratom is quite a bit higher than 10-12g.

What's unclear is if they mean the blend contains 4% mitragynine or just the extract that is added. 50x would actually contain closer to 45% mitragynine by weight so I think they actually mean the enhanced blend is 4%, meaning the enhanced mixture is about 3x the strength of plain kratom.

This means you're taking the equivalent of 30g/day of plain leaf.

Long story short, naltrexone could precipitate withdrawal. Probably wouldnt be spectacularly severe withdrawal but withdrawal nonetheless.

Id recommend tapering down before jumping on the naltrexone.

Thanks! I appreciate it.
"Some" w/d I can handle but not the kind waiting to not precipitate a super high COWS scale w/d like on April 16, 2016.

Yep. It was so bad I remember the date and thought I'd die, it gave me PTSD about it.

 

[negrogesic]

Thanks! I appreciate it.
"Some" w/d I can handle but not the kind waiting to not precipitate a super high COWS scale w/d like on April 16, 2016.

Yep. It was so bad I remember the date and thought I'd die, it gave me PTSD about it.

Yeah i know what you mean. I was once injected with naloxone by a paramedic while I was on 380mg/methadone a day, despite me being wide awake and pleading him not to. I have never been so cold in my life.

If I ever came across the guy I'd cut his thumbs off so he could never inject another person again.

 

[kiitah]

Well... just a warning for those who come after me. I took 1/16th (3.1 mg) of a pill and it was ok. Hours went by, and at bed I took another 1/16th at bed. Immediate chills. Within 20 minutes I was hacking my lungs up, and 20 minutes later I was writhing on the floor in agony. This hell lasted 12+ hours. After at least 6, I dosed a tsp of dkp. Wished I was dead for another several hours... SO TIRED but unable to sleep. Every neuron in my body was firing. Muscles arching and clenching in random areas, in places I didn't know I had muscles. I'd doze off for 15 minutes or so and wake up; repeat cycle.

I'm a woman, and the closest I can describe the pain is (while in totally different in the organs) is like childbirth. It doesn't stop. It gets stronger and worse. It lasts forever, and it's unrelenting. Time loses meaning, and all you care about it MAKE IT STOPPP. It frigging sucks. I feel like I've ran a marathon, fought off deadly fever and gave birth.

So... if this experience can help someone else, learn from me. I can't say for certain that 3mg only (no 2nd dose) would have been ok. Due to being cold and shivering, I think that should be the most I should've taken, and perhaps even that was too much. Starting with 1.5 mg would have been a safer bet.

 

[Mordecai1134]

I had a similar experience with naltrexone. I'm trying to get off kratom so I wanted to see how saturated and down-regulated my opiate receptors are and took 1/8th of a 50mg naltrexone. Thank god the half-life on it isn't super long. Within 30 minutes I was alternating between hyperthermia and sweating to shivering cold. I tried to lay-down and watch some youtube but couldn't tolerate the sound. I wanted to sleep but couldn't manage more than 10-20 minutes. I dosed up a few spoonfuls of kratom (z bag at 13mg/gram, leaf powder) but the mitragynine just cant out-compete the naltrexone. Starting to feel better now after about three-hours. So glad I didn't take the whole 50mg Naltrex..
I think I'm going to try to taper. I've done cold-turkey before and at day 3 it really sucks - constant aches and pains, fatigued, restless leg - and I don't know if I can do it on my own.
I'm concerned though that tapering will just extend my WD and make me uncomfortable v miserable for considerably longer. Anyone have experience with a smooth taper?

 

[drewbocop]

Yeah, 10-15 grams of enhanced kratom is a significantly larger habit than plain leaf and the withdrawal can be quite serious. I take roughly the equivalent in plain leaf every day and have for many, many years. My withdrawal is pretty fucking gnarly and I say that as someone who's been through the wringer on many substances over the years including Opana/Oxycontin/Methadone/Suboxone.

I have no knowledge about the naltrexone combination, but thank you for posting your experience. Perhaps discuss antabuse over naltrexone with your doctor? Or Librium?
I hope you get the help you need and can successfully stop drinking. I hit 6 years sober in September last year and it feels great. Alcohol is a curse for some people.