is there any way i would feel kratom if im taking subutex everyday, some people are telling me kratom is not an opiate and some people are saying it is, im confused, and i also read that you can take tramadol on top of subutex also, is that true?
rachamim said:No, it is neither an opioid nor is it the only natural occurring opioid even if it were one. An opioid is simply a substance that mimics the pharmokineticks of an opiate. Substances are not classed according to their structure nor their similar pharmokinticks, or lack there of.
It has PARTIAL crossover on ONE receptor. Structurally it is closest to psilocybe (meaning Kratom's predominant alakloid Mitragynine IS) and then to Yohimbe. Still, it is not a psyhadelic. It exhbits both stimulant and depressant qualities that are dependant on specific dosages.
rachamim said:Stuck: there is alist of criteria used to classify alkaloids. One of the major sticking points is the function of full on antagonists. While it is indeed possible to overdose on Mitragynine, it is impossible to reverse it via an antagonist. I am aware of the Chiba paper claiming Naaloxone can reverse 7-hydroxy but that is only one of the very minor alkaloids present in the leaf.
Again, receptor affinity has nothing to do with classification. In the end though it is only an academic argument sincve what really matter is the subjective psychoactive expereince and for some it good enough. I still agree with Serat in that is reminds me of an overhyped SSRI.
GenericMind said:Interesting. You learn something new every day.
rachamim said:It is not an opiate/opioid but it DOES have SOME partial crossover on ONE relevant receptor. Most , meaning those who gain effect from Kratom because most do not, compare it to T3 (Tylenol #3).
There is no reason why you would not feel Kratom when on Bupe except that it is not really discernible psychoactively for experienced opiate/opioid users.
As for Tramdol with Bupe, if taking Bupe per se and not the compounded version with the antagonist, as in Sub, you will be fine. Both focus on the same receptor so that you would get added analgesia,etc. If your goal is psychoactive in nature (trying to get high), again, Bupe is a substance that is effective only for some people. If you have gained effect from Tramadol before, you should also feel the combination.
If youy mean Sub, well that will be a problem. Ahhh, and you DID say Sub. Well, you have info on both scenarios. Good luck.
rachamim said:As for Tramdol with Bupe, if taking Bupe per se and not the compounded version with the antagonist, as in Sub, you will be fine.