• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Kicking Coke - Best Meds?

fastandbulbous said:
I'm glad it's working for Middleway, but he seems to understand that with that particular treatment, relapse = trip to hospital (& possibly a horribly painful death) - not something you can expect from everyone

I would not attempt to transition from my present meds to a classic MAOI without consulting the best shrink I could find. Allow me to reinforce your point that self medicating while on MAOI's is lethal.

I suspect Middleway initially treated his own addiction with selegiline (well informed about what to avoid).
Frankly - it was damn creative and successful psychopharmacology!
After pulling off this informed and impressive accomplishment - I bet an MD suggested Nardil.

Few people tolerate MAOI's well - but for those who do?
IT REMAINS THE GOLD STANDARD FOR BOTH SOCIAL PHOBIA AND DEPRESSION.

fastandbulbous said:
Considering how many people here on BL take very little notice of drug interaction warnings, I think Nardil(phenelzine) would be a hypertensive crisis just waiting to happen for most people. You cannot fuck around with the non-competetive MAOIs like phenelzine or tranylcypromine, but some people would just have the attitude,"well it says in medical books that you're not supposed to take opioids & CNS depressants together, but I have & I was OK".

Wow - I am certain you know your members well - but I find the above remark to be disturbing and discouraging!

The BL members are among the brightest and best informed I have known.

IMHO - if one is not (FAR) better informed then an army of doctors about the meds they take?
They are as good as dead.

To ANYONE reading this -
if you do not know far more than your doctors about how ANY agent may effect you?
PLEASE STUDY LIKE HELL!
The doctors know s--t - and don't care if you die.

It is your life and your health.

F--k it up if you choose - that is your sovereign liberty right!

And please, ALWAYS make an INFORMED decision?


My Best To All!

wz
 
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lenses said:
Personally I find Gabapentin and some sort of dopamine supplement like L-tyrosine or L-dopa (can be found in stores as Macuna plant extracts) to help. A lot of the things named are difficult to find.

Coke craving are a result of lowered dopamine levels.Give it about 3 days and you'll be better. Eats lots of protein and your veggies. Believe me i've been through this a lot...

Oh also, theres a supplement called NADH which supposedly raises tyrosine hydroxylase levels through some goofy way. I've been using it and feeling heaps better.

Pm me if you really need help...

Thanks!
I will PM you.
I do not remember a thing about NADH - but you sure got my attention!

TIA!

wz
 
Dopamine only 1/2 the problem! GLUTAMATE imbalance.

Items 1 -2 of 2

1: Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2007 Mar 30;31(2):389-94. Epub 2006 Nov 17.Click here to read Compound (MeSH Keyword), Substance (MeSH Keyword), LinkOut
An open-label trial of N-acetylcysteine for the treatment of cocaine dependence: a pilot study.
Mardikian PN, LaRowe SD, Hedden S, Kalivas PW, Malcolm RJ.

Center for Drug and Alcohol Programs, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Medical University of South Carolina, 67 President Street, Charleston, SC 29425, USA. [email protected]

Recent preclinical studies implicate N-acetylcysteine (NAC), a cysteine prodrug, as a potential medication for preventing relapse to cocaine use; however, little is known about the safety and tolerability of NAC in cocaine-dependent subjects in an outpatient setting. This pilot study examines the safety and tolerability of 3 doses of NAC for the treatment of cocaine dependence. Twenty three treatment-seeking cocaine-dependent patients participated in a 4-week medication trial and received NAC at doses of 1200 mg/day, 2400 mg/day or 3600 mg/day. Results suggested that the three doses were well tolerated. Overall, the retention rates appeared to favor higher doses of NAC (2400 mg/day and 3600 mg/day). The majority of subjects who completed the study (n=16) either terminated use of cocaine completely or significantly reduced their use of cocaine during treatment. Overall the findings suggest that it is feasible to treat cocaine-dependent treatment seekers with N-acetylcysteine on an outpatient basis.

PMID: 17113207 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Links

* Safety and tolerability of N-acetylcysteine in cocaine-dependent individuals. [Am J Addict. 2006]
* Divalproex loading in the treatment of cocaine dependence. [J Psychoactive Drugs. 2001]
* Is cocaine desire reduced by N-acetylcysteine? [Am J Psychiatry. 2007]
* Gabapentin in the treatment of cocaine dependence: a case series. [J Clin Psychiatry. 2001]
* N-acetylcysteine reduces respiratory burst but augments neutrophil phagocytosis in intensive care unit patients. [Crit Care Med. 2001]

See all Related Articles...

2: Nat Neurosci. 2003 Jul;6(7):743-9.Click here to read Compound (MeSH Keyword), Substance (MeSH Keyword), Cited in PMC, LinkOut
Neuroadaptations in cystine-glutamate exchange underlie cocaine relapse.
Baker DA, McFarland K, Lake RW, Shen H, Tang XC, Toda S, Kalivas PW.

Department of Physiology and Neuroscience, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina 29425, USA.

Repeated cocaine treatment and withdrawal produces changes in brain function thought to be involved in relapse to drug use. Withdrawal from repeated cocaine reduced in vivo extracellular glutamate in the nucleus accumbens of rats by decreasing the exchange of extracellular cystine for intracellular glutamate. In vivo restoration of cystine/glutamate exchange by intracranial perfusion of cystine or systemically administered N-acetylcysteine normalized the levels of glutamate in cocaine-treated subjects. To determine if the reduction in nonvesicular glutamate release is a mediator of relapse, we examined cocaine-primed reinstatement of drug seeking after cocaine self-administration was stopped. Reinstatement was prevented by stimulating cystine/glutamate exchange with N-acetylcysteine and restoring extracellular glutamate. Thus, withdrawal from repeated cocaine increases susceptibility to relapse in part by reducing cystine/glutamate exchange, and restoring exchanger activity prevents cocaine-primed drug seeking.

PMID: 12778052 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Links

* Prefrontal glutamate release into the core of the nucleus accumbens mediates cocaine-induced reinstatement of drug-seeking behavior. [J Neurosci. 2003]
* Cystine/glutamate exchange regulates metabotropic glutamate receptor presynaptic inhibition of excitatory transmission and vulnerability to cocaine seeking. [J Neurosci. 2005]
* Cocaine administered into the medial prefrontal cortex reinstates cocaine-seeking behavior by increasing AMPA receptor-mediated glutamate transmission in the nucleus accumbens. [J Neurosci. 2002]
* Repeated N-acetylcysteine administration alters plasticity-dependent effects of cocaine. [J Neurosci. 2007]
* Glutamate transmission in the nucleus accumbens mediates relapse in cocaine addiction. [J Neurosci. 2000]

See all Related Articles...
 
Nobody has mentioned Mazindol which is supposed to feel like low-dose cocaine. Otherwise, I'm with F&B, desoxypipradrol really IS a great step forward in making a methadone for cocaine. Little body-load, LONG T1/2 and no desire to keep redosing. I did 25mg in 1 day & it kept me awake for 3 days! A friend who shall remain nameless did 100mg in 3 days without getting high per se, it just made her alert. The other great thing about desoxy is that it won't show up in a drug test. It's out there, so ask around,...

Actually, has anyone investigated desoxymazindol?
 
Real Time W/D. NADH and Desoxypipradrol

haribo1 said:
Nobody has mentioned Mazindol which is supposed to feel like low-dose cocaine. Otherwise, I'm with F&B, desoxypipradrol really IS a great step forward in making a methadone for cocaine. Little body-load, LONG T1/2 and no desire to keep redosing. I did 25mg in 1 day & it kept me awake for 3 days! A friend who shall remain nameless did 100mg in 3 days without getting high per se, it just made her alert. The other great thing about desoxy is that it won't show up in a drug test. It's out there, so ask around,...

Actually, has anyone investigated desoxymazindol?

Sadly - I have seen no such thing.

I am on day 4 or 5 W/O coke - so pardon my not posting.

I have been totally anergic.
This has felt like 4 MONTHS!
I tried functioning by taking phenteramine but it stops working in about one hour.
While I have tried most every ADD med with NO abuse and NO tolerance -
It concerns me that only with phen - do I develop a rapid tolerance.
Who knows how long phen is slowing down my recovery?
Damn - I prey for relief.

Someone mentioned using NADH supplementation.
As I have to drag my ass outside to get more NAC -
Wont you post your NADH protocol?

Re: Desoxypipradrol?

We can not discuss sources or methods here - so don't.
I know on NO sources for this legal substance.

Thanks To All
wz
 
Nadh

lenses said:
Personally I find Gabapentin and some sort of dopamine supplement like L-tyrosine or L-dopa (can be found in stores as Macuna plant extracts) to help. A lot of the things named are difficult to find.

Coke craving are a result of lowered dopamine levels.Give it about 3 days and you'll be better. Eats lots of protein and your veggies. Believe me i've been through this a lot...

Oh also, theres a supplement called NADH which supposedly raises tyrosine hydroxylase levels through some goofy way. I've been using it and feeling heaps better.

Pm me if you really need help...


All I know:
1) Stimulants activate cAMP.
2) Genes for the following are (somehow) regulated by cAMP:
Tyrosine hydroxylase, prodynorphin, somatostatin and proenkephalin.
3) NADH and cAMP both are (somehow) involved in allosterical regulation that (somehow) determine (some) enzymatic function.

Really - that is all I know!

Anyone willing to venture a hypothesis?

This is what I could find on NADH and cocaine:



Neuroreport. 1997 Jul 28;-41.

Cocaine self-administration alters brain NADH dehydrogenase mRNA levels.
Couceyro P, Shoaib M, McCoy M, Goldberg SR, Kuhar MJ.

Division of Neuroscience, Yerkes Regional Primate Center, Emory University, Atlanta, GA 30329, USA.

Using differential display PCR, we identified a cDNA whose expression is altered in several brain regions in rats self-administering cocaine. The cDNA sequence corresponds to bases 13687-13723 of the rat NADH dehydrogenase subunit 6 gene. Northern analysis indicated a 26% decrease in nucleus accumbens, a 305% increase in the ventral midbrain and no changes in the caudate putamen mRNA levels; changes were also noted in the hypothalamus and cerebellum. This is the first demonstration of an effect of cocaine self-administration on mitochondrial gene expression and suggests that regional metabolic changes elicited by cocaine may be relevant to and involved in its reinforcing properties.

PMID: 9261805 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Links
* NAC-1, a rat brain mRNA, is increased in the nucleus accumbens three weeks after chronic cocaine self-administration. [J Neurosci. 1997]
* Chronic intracerebroventricular cocaine differentially affects prodynorphin gene expression in rat hypothalamus and caudate-putamen. [Brain Res Mol Brain Res. 1996]
* Differential expression of mitochondrial NADH dehydrogenase in ethanol-treated rat brain: revealed by differential display. [Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 1997]
* PCR differential display identifies a rat brain mRNA that is transcriptionally regulated by cocaine and amphetamine. [J Neurosci. 1995]
* Expression of c-fos, NGFI-A and secretogranin II mRNA in brain regions during initiation of cocaine self-administration in mice. [Eur J Neurosci. 1999]



2: Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Oct;1025:345-50.Click here to read Compound (MeSH Keyword), Substance (MeSH Keyword), LinkOut
Cocaine downregulates the expression of the mitochondrial genome in rat brain.
Dietrich JB, Poirier R, Aunis D, Zwiller J.

INSERM U 575, Centre de Neurochimie, 67084 Strasbourg, France. [email protected]

Analysis by differential display of genes induced in response to acute cocaine administration to rats revealed the significant downregulation of several mitochondrial genes in the cingulate cortex, including the subunits 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 of NADH dehydrogenase and the subunit 2 of cytochrome c oxidase. Although the mechanism of the downregulation of expression of these mitochondrial genes by cocaine is presently not well understood, one can envisage that it involves an increased production of reactive oxygen species in cells of the cerebral cortex.

PMID: 15542735 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Links
* Distinct gene expression profiles in adult rat brains after acute MK-801 and cocaine treatments. [Eur Neuropsychopharmacol. 2006]
* Cocaine-induced expression changes of axon guidance molecules in the adult rat brain. [Mol Cell Neurosci. 2005]
* The anesthetics propofol and ketamine inhibit cocaine-induced egr-1 gene expression in rat forebrain. [Eur J Pharmacol. 2002]
* Time-course of mitochondrial gene expressions in mice brains: implications for mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative damage, and cytochrome c in aging. [J Neurochem. 2005]



3: J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1989 Oct;251(1):258-66.Click here to read Compound (MeSH Keyword), Substance (MeSH Keyword), LinkOut
Attenuation by dopamine uptake blockers of the inhibitory effects of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine and some of its analogs on NADH-linked metabolism in mouse neostriatal slices.
Ofori S, Heikkila RE, Nicklas WJ.

Department of Neurology, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway.

In previous studies it was shown that the pyridinium species formed by the monoamine-oxidase-catalyzed conversion of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP) and 1-methyl-4-(2'methylphenyl)-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (2'Me-MPTP) inhibited mitochondrial electron transport at Complex I. In addition, these substances, when incubated with mouse neostriatal slices, caused an increased lactate accumulation. However, it was not clear whether this inhibition could occur within dopamine nerve terminals. In the present study we investigated if dopamine uptake blockers, shown previously to protect against tetrahydropyridine-induced dopaminergic neurotoxicity, would attenuate MPTP- and 2'Me-MPTP-promoted lactate formation in neostriatal slices. 2'Me-MPTP-induced lactate accumulation in neostriatal slices from mice or rats with a lesion of the nigrostriatal pathway was also studied. The dopamine uptake blocker, Win 35,428 [8-azabicyclo[3.2.1]octane-2-carboxylic acid, 3-(4-fluorophenyl)-8-methyl-, methylester [1R-(exo, exol)]), attenuated the increased lactate formation caused by MPTP and 2'Me-MPTP. At low concentrations of 2'Me-MPTP (5 microM), the increased lactate production was inhibited completely by Win 35,428. These latter data suggest that at low concentrations of 2'Me-MPTP, the increased lactate accumulation was associated primarily with dopaminergic nerve terminals. Two other dopamine uptake inhibitors, McN 5908 [trans-4-(1,2,3,5,6,10b-hexahydropyrrolo[2,1-alpha]isoquinolin+ ++-6-yl) benzenamine hydrobromide methanolate (4:4:1)] and mazindol [5-(4-chlorophenyl)-2,5-dihydro-3H-imidazo- [2,1-alpha]isoindol-5-ol], also attenuated tetrahydropyridine-induced lactate formation. At concentrations selective for their respective uptake systems, norepinephrine- and serotonin-uptake inhibitors did not attenuate 2'Me-MPTP-induced lactate accumulation.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 2571719 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Links
* Role for monoamine oxidase-A (MAO-A) in the bioactivation and nigrostriatal dopaminergic neurotoxicity of the MPTP analog, 2'Me-MPTP. [Eur J Pharmacol. 1988]
* Prevention of the nigrostriatal toxicity of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine by inhibitors of 3,4-dihydroxyphenylethylamine transport. [J Neurochem. 1986]
* Mitochondrial and metabolic toxicity of 1-methyl-4-(2'-methylphenyl)-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine. [J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1987]
* Protection against the dopaminergic neurotoxicity of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,5,6-tetrahydropyridine by monoamine oxidase inhibitors. [Nature. 1984]
* Studies on the neurotoxicity of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine: inhibition of NAD-linked substrate oxidation by its metabolite, 1-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium. [J Neurochem. 1986]



4: Res Commun Chem Pathol Pharmacol. 1973 Jan;5(1):237-40.Compound (MeSH Keyword), Substance (MeSH Keyword), LinkOut
Inhibitory effect of certain drugs on NADH dehydrogenase of mouse heart homogenates.
Zwarenstein H, Sapeika N.

PMID: 4405565 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related Links
* Inhibitory effect of fenfluramine and propranolol on NADH dehydrogenase of mouse heart homogenates. [Res Commun Chem Pathol Pharmacol. 1972]
* Inhibitory effect of anti-obesity drugs on NADH dehydrogenase of mouse heart homogenates. [Res Commun Chem Pathol Pharmacol. 1975]
* Effect of a norfenfluramine derivative (S780) on NADH dehydrogenase and on certain other enzymes of mouse tissue homogenates. [Res Commun Chem Pathol Pharmacol. 1973]
* The effect of inhibitors on the electron-transport chain of Bacillus brevis. Evidence for branching of the NADH oxidase respiratory chain. [J Gen Microbiol. 1974]
* Patterns of cytochrome oxidase inhibition by polycations. [J Bioenerg. 1973]
 
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You guys ARE amazing!

haribo1 said:
Nobody has mentioned Mazindol which is supposed to feel like low-dose cocaine. Otherwise, I'm with F&B, desoxypipradrol really IS a great step forward in making a methadone for cocaine. Little body-load, LONG T1/2 and no desire to keep redosing. I did 25mg in 1 day & it kept me awake for 3 days! A friend who shall remain nameless did 100mg in 3 days without getting high per se, it just made her alert. The other great thing about desoxy is that it won't show up in a drug test. It's out there, so ask around,...

Actually, has anyone investigated desoxymazindol?


Pipradrol
Desoxypipradrol
Mazindol
Desoxymazindol

You guys ARE amazing.

edited by vecktor

wz
 
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well, I don't think anyone would argue that desoxymazindol would be covered by the analogue act...
 
Nadh

It's a co-enzyme that involved in the conversion of tyrosine to L-dopa (through tyrosine hydroxylase), the precursor to dopamine. It is also involved in a billion other reactions, but this is probably the one of interest. It is also possibly a scavenger of oxidants and may prevent cell damage.

If the effect is mostly through dopamine, I would imagine that taking NADH would be similar to taking a bit more L-dopa/carbidopa or eating foods rich in dopa or tyrosine (such as mucana pruriens and other beans).
 
fastandbulbous said:
I would! Isn't mazindol a sch III or sch IV drug, so outside the realms of the Analog act as it only refers to sch I & II drugs?

I'm confused. You'd argue that it is covered by the analogue act because mazindol's scheduling status means that the act doesn't apply?
 
Didn't see any it mentioned, and it's been awhile now, so I had to finally "break the seal" and create an account. So i guess welcome me! :/

Look into Anafranil (not adrafanil). It is an antiseizure medication, but has shown great potential for brain restoration in cocaine damaged brains. And it's not habit forming, so tapering off is no problem. Finding it may be.

You might also try running a combo of things, ie: 300mg adrafanil and 1000mg of NAC (twice daily) and 500mg L-tyrosine (once daily). Also add a zinc supplement and a multi-B to help get the L-tyrosine past the blood brain barrier as well as combat the NAC from reducing internal zinc levels. Nice bonus to this specific combo is the adrafanil's side effect of increased liver toxicity may be counteracted by the NAC, as it's commonly used to treat acetaminophen overdose
Also, adding a racitam could'nt hurt as it increases the blood flow between the hemispheres. might as well take hydergine (250 mg) if you are going to give it a full shot. but as with any attempt to kick, avoid alcohol like the plague.

Avoid additional antioxidant supplements while taking something like this, some may be counteractive.

Of course consult a pharma expert before creating any cocktail of medications you are not familiar with
 
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Meds

Are there any Methadone clinics for coke addicts? For that matter are there any rugs which block the receptor that coke effects?

Cocaine seems to have some interesting affects that go along with its stimulant effects. It is a topical anesthetic and numbs the area which it comes in contact with, just like its cousin Novocain. This may interfere with re-uptake blockers like Methadone.

However there may be some medications that block dopamine re-uptake receptors. I am not aware of any. There are on the other hand medications now which can block everything from LSD (risperidal) to Heroin (methadone) and Marijuana (Rimonabant)
 
NeoLime said:
Are there any Methadone clinics for coke addicts? For that matter are there any rugs which block the receptor that coke effects?

Cocaine seems to have some interesting affects that go along with its stimulant effects. It is a topical anesthetic and numbs the area which it comes in contact with, just like its cousin Novocain. This may interfere with re-uptake blockers like Methadone.

However there may be some medications that block dopamine re-uptake receptors. I am not aware of any. There are on the other hand medications now which can block everything from LSD (risperidal) to Heroin (methadone) and Marijuana (Rimonabant)
that's why they gave me risperdal?!?! MO****FU*****!!!!! You sir have just forcifully ripped the small thread of faith I had in medical practitioners. they mean well, but they're CLUELESS.

there is a "cocaine blocker" that is available, but I'm afraid I can't recall the name right now. it is a full immunization (one shot, then another at three months to establish control).

also, I meant 1000 mg of NAC, not 500.

risperdal blocks the effects of LSD? do you have a link to a correlative study?
 
citation

homard_simpson said:
risperdal blocks the effects of LSD? do you have a link to a correlative study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12669030
and
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j3787651w1778484/

These are both studies which say that risperidone blocks LSD.

"These concepts enabled the discovery of the antipsychotic risperidone, a unique full antagonist of the interoceptive effects of LSD."

"risperidone was studied in a 0.16 mg/kg LSD-saline drug discrimination test procedure. At doses varying from 0.0025 to 0.63 mg/kg, no LSD-like agonist effects were observed. Studies on the antagonism of the LSD-cue indicated that risperidone was able to completely block the discriminative stimulus properties of LSD"

Edited-
 
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^ One of a whole load. LSD is an utter strumpet when it comes to receptor binding. It just so happens the 5HT2a is the one that appears to be responsible for the psychedelic activity. At normally used doses, LSD interacts with various neurotransmitter receptors (serotonin, noradrenaline, dopamine & histamine)


Wow - I am certain you know your members well - but I find the above remark to be disturbing and discouraging!

Used to be an OD mod...
 
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