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Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Isomers: R and S Ketamine

I'm scheduled for a ketamine infusion but does it cause constipation? I already have that left over from opioids I believe... I have no idea how much they intend to use. It's a clinic. Thank you.
 
Anne.1313 said:
I'm scheduled for a ketamine infusion but does it cause constipation? I already have that left over from opioids I believe... I have no idea how much they intend to use. It's a clinic. Thank you.
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i don't recall ever having trouble with constipation. I would recommend you check out this supplement though. Moringa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBMa3N88bf0 I found it to regulate my movements. I prefer emptying the capsules in white or black tea. Good luck on your infusion!
 
Anne.1313 said:
I'm scheduled for a ketamine infusion but does it cause constipation? I already have that left over from opioids I believe... I have no idea how much they intend to use. It's a clinic. Thank you.
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- The dosages for infusion are relatively low
- There should be no constipation, the reverse if anything: ketamine dose-dependently enhanced bowel movement in animal testing.

@the 2013 post above: It's described in literature that S-ketamine is the more potent NMDA antagonist and clearly is the better anaesthetic although I think it has a quicker / shorter effect. The anaesthetic / holing effects may be enhanced by activity on hyperpolarizable channels when in combination with rapid NMDA antagonism (also in literature), I have personally wondered whether tolerance to the former activity may be lots more permanent. Still that should not make S weaker for you - probably a mix-up.
 
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You seem to know a lot about ketamine. I'm considering an infusion at a clinic but suffer chronic constipation and can't find out how much if any it makes constipation worse. All clinical trials have patients on other opioids as well...I'm not. Can you direct me to help?statistics? Thanks.
 
Can you message me so I can get the actual studies/literature? About constipation and ketamine. I don't know what kind the clinic uses. I'm wanting to use it for pain. Thank you so much.
 
Interesting thread. I picked up a sizeable quantity of medical grade K in a bottle with no label (it's definitely K as I have reagent tested it).
I was very shocked the first time I took it: I went for 75mg IM for a sub-hole dose (around 110 or so would be the standard hole dose for me) and was utterly blasted for a couple of hours. This thread has me thinking that it must be the S isomer. Racemic K still requires around 120mg for complete blast off, but 75mg of the other is more than enough. I've nicknamed it 'rocket fuel'.
 
Dear Fairnymph,

Please message me privately to further discuss this! However I think you may need to clear some space in your inbox if that's convenient for you!

Kind regards,
Abaddon7
 
In my subjective experience S+ causes no stomach upset while racemic will cause some, its duration is shorter and it is more visual and it seems to have a significantly lesser impact on my ability to move and motor coordination.
I need much less of the S+ to hole as well, for me with no significant tolerance about 150mg will be ok.
But as the racemic at a high enough dose to hole seems to better cancel out the feelings of having a body, I can see how for some it might be a better tool than S+.
Personally, I find it that with silence, avoiding any movement and meditating thinking I will be able to not feel my body when sober.
 
Sorry, the dosage mentioned in my previous post was insufflated.
I never tried IM.
 
In a study of 12 volunteers there was no difference between S-ket and racemic in terms of side-effects like nausea, so maybe there are other factors at play. I don't know exactly how much they tried to move though, the worst nausea for me seems to be produced when you are anaesthesized but try to move regardless. S-ketamine produces stronger anaesthesia (though yes it tends to be more acute and shorter) so the question is how that anaesthesia compares between your tests and whether you tried to stay active at a certain dosage.

I suggest that the reason you might separate from your body better on racemic is actually not the strength of the anaesthesia purely, but also the complementary cognitive effects of "forgetting" or misunderstanding your body rather than simply being able to feel or move it.
A reason for the apparently conflicting experience with less nausea on S-(+) can be because since it is more potent you need less of it to achieve the same anaesthetic effect and the side-effects are dose-dependent and the part of them unrelated to moving around when dizzy as hell seems to have little to do with the psychoactivity since it appears to be about equal in S and R.

Things like that can make the matter complex and cause people to disagree on the subjective experience, but there is literature on the propensity of the enantiomeres to influence the body and it's fundamental sensations which is less open to interpretation. S-(+) is the more potent anaesthetic enantiomer though, there is a good reason why it is the one being used medically.
 
Abaddon7 said:
Dear Fairnymph,

Please message me privately to further discuss this! However I think you may need to clear some space in your inbox if that's convenient for you!

Kind regards,
Abaddon7
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Ms. Nymph does not post here anymore. Is she alive? I hope so. Hello J!
 
I've always preferred racemic (as do most people I know), but my experiences with S-ket match the original post. More exclusively cerebral (less body high), yet also less psychedelic than racemic, and it wears off 'cleaner' with less residual after effects.

I can see why it's preferred by clinicians looking to avoid the psychedelic effects, but I think that's most out of expediency, and embracing the psychedelic aspect would lead to better overall therapeutic outcomes.
 
The last infusion I did was 255 mg certainly higher than some at the clinic , however I have a high standing tolerance but luckily the clinic I use believes that the experience is also beneficial to relief givin, each clinic is different as to how high they will take the dose some will keep it at a sub hole dose
 
I find R to be sedating like an opioid, even more so and my motor skills go to shit if you ask me to walk a straight line. No matter how much I snort I never reach any psychedelia, maybe very minor at 600mg+. I had a racemic highly dominant in R (not all racemic mixtures are 50:50, for instance (Levo) 25:75 (Dextro) for Adderall)

Racemic is hard to tell but I find it clogs my nose after the first line or two, sometimes requiring pseudoephedrine to breath. This is more of a body high but still has some psychedelia to it however before I am lucky to reach it since mostly my eyes water & I began to sneeze big time having to cover my nose and mouth (almost impossible) for the powder to absorb.

I tried S hoping that what I once had (prob a K-analogue which gave me open eye visuals and ability to stand up). It wasn't what I was hoping for, however I will say that it lasted about half the length of racemic, recovery was much quicker than racemic and in terms of anti depressive effects the S wins hands down.

I would like to compare S and R to cannabis Sativa and Indica (respectively). I found the S to be superior to my other (limited) experiences. I remember 35mg of ketamine would give a stretched out nitrous oxide feeling but none of that was experienced with the S version. Superior still, I find I can walk around on this K without much motor skill impairment. It doesn't clog my nose as much as the racemic but its very short lived. S K is superior for depression IMO and limited experience.

p.s. I have seen/heard/encountered pure R but from my research S is where it is supposed to be at,
 
I suspect that most of what has been sold to me as S-ketamine has in fact been racemic, as my most recent purchase of S-ket fit the description of a more clear-headed but psychedelic high better. It's the first time I've had a lot of OEVs in the form of patterns covering surfaces etc, mostly in the style of aztec patterns, whereas earlier experiences have given more of a distortion and altering of the physical surroundings before finally leading to the hole where everything is replaced by "mind movies", being floated through very detailed environments etc. Reaching a proper hole on this material seemed difficult. It could of course also be some other dissociative misrepresented as K, but dosage and duration seemed spot on at least.
 
not worth knowing said:
I suspect that most of what has been sold to me as S-ketamine has in fact been racemic, as my most recent purchase of S-ket fit the description of a more clear-headed but psychedelic high better. It's the first time I've had a lot of OEVs in the form of patterns covering surfaces etc, mostly in the style of aztec patterns, whereas earlier experiences have given more of a distortion and altering of the physical surroundings before finally leading to the hole where everything is replaced by "mind movies", being floated through very detailed environments etc. Reaching a proper hole on this material seemed difficult. It could of course also be some other dissociative misrepresented as K, but dosage and duration seemed spot on at least.
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Hmm I’m gonna wager maybe another disso. S-K never has given me strong OEV at the dosages I use.

S-K to me is about 1.5-2x potency of racemic, more sedating but cleaner feeling. Honestly I only use very low doses typically so my experience reflects that. S-K shines for me in the days after with a much better afterglow compared to racemic, also usually no hangover of any type.

Racemic is better in acute effects, weaker but has this almost stimulating quality to it and more euphoria that makes it better for social environments. I’m more likely to keep hitting the bag of racemic over S-K. The problem is the next day if I do anything more than 1 bump I feel a hangover, also the semi-manic afterglow I highly enjoy doesn’t seem nearly as present.

In the end I prefer S-K even though the experience itself isn’t as good, I don’t use K for the acute effects.

For what it’s worth, racemic has always come as chunks. The best being chunks which upon breaking down become smaller clear crystals, not just a powder. All S-Ketamine has been the tiny needle like crystals.

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
Hmm I’m gonna wager maybe another disso. S-K never has given me strong OEV at the dosages I use.

S-K to me is about 1.5-2x potency of racemic, more sedating but cleaner feeling. Honestly I only use very low doses typically so my experience reflects that. S-K shines for me in the days after with a much better afterglow compared to racemic, also usually no hangover of any type.

Racemic is better in acute effects, weaker but has this almost stimulating quality to it and more euphoria that makes it better for social environments. I’m more likely to keep hitting the bag of racemic over S-K. The problem is the next day if I do anything more than 1 bump I feel a hangover, also the semi-manic afterglow I highly enjoy doesn’t seem nearly as present.

In the end I prefer S-K even though the experience itself isn’t as good, I don’t use K for the acute effects.

For what it’s worth, racemic has always come as chunks. The best being chunks which upon breaking down become smaller clear crystals, not just a powder. All S-Ketamine has been the tiny needle like crystals.

-GC
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Ha, my confusion about ketamine isomers continues.
In any case, the type I have most experience with - usually advertised as S - is very sedating, makes thoughts move slow, hard both to move physically and to communicate in any meaningful way. Gives deep holes. This has been needlelike crystals. However, the subjective effects are not far off from the racemic K I've been given IV at a clinic, and I'd sort of come to the conclusion that the difference between S and racemic wasn't as big as online discussions had led me to believe. What I had this last time though was quite different, with very little sedation and almost more of a stimulating edge, and could indeed have been something different altogether.
I have also tried what's been sold to me as R-ketamine, which generally gives much more physical impairment and weird gravitational sensations, and less of a mental trip. This has also been in the form of needlelike crystals.
When what I've gotten has been advertised as racemic the crystal grains have had that more square/rounded shape.
To confuse things further I've also had something where isomer was not specified, that came as white chunky powder, gave a much less pleasant high that seemed to last quite short and which I decided was probably not ketamine at all.
 
not worth knowing said:
Ha, my confusion about ketamine isomers continues.
In any case, the type I have most experience with - usually advertised as S - is very sedating, makes thoughts move slow, hard both to move physically and to communicate in any meaningful way. Gives deep holes. This has been needlelike crystals. However, the subjective effects are not far off from the racemic K I've been given IV at a clinic, and I'd sort of come to the conclusion that the difference between S and racemic wasn't as big as online discussions had led me to believe. What I had this last time though was quite different, with very little sedation and almost more of a stimulating edge, and could indeed have been something different altogether.
I have also tried what's been sold to me as R-ketamine, which generally gives much more physical impairment and weird gravitational sensations, and less of a mental trip. This has also been in the form of needlelike crystals.
When what I've gotten has been advertised as racemic the crystal grains have had that more square/rounded shape.
To confuse things further I've also had something where isomer was not specified, that came as white chunky powder, gave a much less pleasant high that seemed to last quite short and which I decided was probably not ketamine at all.
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Ketamine is a strange drug, i have very big variation in both effects and tolerance.
Sometimes 100mg shoots me to space, other times i can binge 400mg in a night without holing.(suspect its mostly subconsiously me draging out the experience instead of doing alot at once)
 
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