Dissociatives [Ketamine Subthread] Isomers: R and S Ketamine

[sekio]

Heavy doses of ketamine are also pretty reliable inducers of pseudo-schizophrenic type states... and K has been around for quite a while. I think DM turner beat you to the punch on the whole ketamine-psy link.

I'm pretty sure it would be a trivial thing to get a non-intoxicated, reliable third party to verify your idea though.

 

[down508]

I think outright time travel is less than realistic, but I did feel like I got a very different perspective on time and the past decade of my life in the last trip I had, similar to one I had a couple years ago. I felt like I could peer into the future, but not anything specific really, more of just feeling like I could look back on the future the same way I could remember the past.

I had an interesting image of time though, one that makes it easier to look back at events in the past. I see time as a spiral, 12 months in a year and the december of one year being directly below the december of the next year. this is the way I see time whenever I do k, and it is a model that really makes sense especially on k.

as for esp, the closest I've came is communicating with someone on lsd (I was on massive k doses) at a rave. it was like I would all of a sudden think strongly about her and would think about a theme or something in particular and then I would go to find her and I'd find her looking for me too and we'd both know what we were thinking about. the fact neither of us were sober makes it impossible to prove, but I just remember feeling an unbelievable connection even though we were not even in the same room as eachother. this used to happen on a somewhat regular basis, but I dont remember many of the details, I just remember how strange it was and how I believed in it at the time. your right about ketamine creating a psuedo-schizofrenic state though, and that would explain a lot of this. I remember reading that schizofrenics believed they had powers that nobody else had, and all the evidence they came up with always proved it to them (but never anyone else)

if a schizofrenic predicts the next day something will happen, or they predict what sentences a person will say to them before they even say it, does the person not actually say that sentence or do they just not actually predict it? if they wrote down a prediction and it happened would they all of a sudden not be able to find the prediction they wrote down? or would they percieve it to say something it doesn't?

this is starting to turn into a very ketamineish post. if anyone wants to see a cool movie about this kind of shit watch John Dies at the End. thank me later

 

[down508]

so I couldn't let this shit pass me by so I decided to grab what my boy had left. he didn't have a scale but he charged me for a G (and charged a very reasonable price for it at that). here's what he gave me, I'm a little skeptical that its just a gram.

this pic shows the variations in the crystals better, some are smaller than others but they all seem to have the same structure.

NSFW:

now I just gotta get my hands on some mdma and I'll be ready for a balling weekend.

 

[down508]

well my earlier wish came true. this came into my possession earlier today. on wednesday im gonna start dipping into both. what are some reccomendations for dosing? I've mixed the two in the past and it is completely unreal. I would usually wait til I was coming up on molly and then do .1 of k, the results were always superior. im probably going to take 150 mg mdma oral then an hour later i.m. 120mg ketamine. should i prepare to have my socks blown right off?

NSFW:

 

[SPDemon420]

I truly.. TRULY Hate you...

 

[phenethylo J]

Iv'e found some pretty large crystals in my current batch of racemic.

 

[Solipsis]

Merged, because both threads are not only about the different isomers but also about indirect crystallographical speculation, which if I can remind everyone - is skirting along the edges of the rules: no IDing.

Meaning, we cannot help you identify the isomeric ratio just by looking at these pictures. We can fantasize about it and you will probably draw your own conclusions anyway - but bear in mind that it is not actually conclusive and you are only working with a probability.

The pics are nice dope porn though.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Differences between racemic and s-isomer ketamine

I understand you can't for sure tell the difference without laboratory testing, but has anybody in their long years of usage had a chance to use both while knowing if it was racemic or not?
Was there much difference in effects? Side effects?
I never know for sure but I've generally found two types of ketamine, one is more psychedelic, and the other gives me a more lucid dreamlike state and impairs my motor function more than the former.

I've also noticed that the more psychedelic ketamine, which I believe to be s-isomer, to also be easier on the stomach. It seems like I get stomach pains very quickly from what I believe to be racemic ketamine.
Any thoughts?

 

[sekio]

I understand you can't for sure tell the difference without laboratory testing

With 2 polarisers, a protractor, and a glass tube you can build a polarimeter and tell for sure.

S-isomer has a faster onset and offset and is a cleaner experience, I believe. A lot of people prefer the racemate because it has a little more ... complexity to it.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

I never know for sure but I've generally found two types of ketamine, one is more psychedelic, and the other gives me a more lucid dreamlike state and impairs my motor function more than the former.

yes, there is all kinds of mystery stories about the qualitative difference between the two forms of ketamine. I have tried both, and the only difference I noticed and appreciated was the higher potency of s-ketamine.

fun fact: when S-ketamine was introduced as a human anaesthetic, the producers claimed that they had also removed the unwanted psychedelia with the R-isomer, and that S-ketamine finally was what ketamine should have been from the beginning: a great anaesthetic that doesn't cause "bad dreams" any more. well, I for my part am happy that this turned out to be a marketing lie.

I've also noticed that the more psychedelic ketamine, which I believe to be s-isomer, to also be easier on the stomach. It seems like I get stomach pains very quickly from what I believe to be racemic ketamine.
Any thoughts?

yes, that makes sense. the r-isomer has only very little effects by itself, and mainly contributes to unwanted side effects, so by removing it and only using the more potent S-isomer you get a cleaner experience, and also reduce the risk of bladder damamge.

With 2 polarisers, a protractor, and a glass tube you can build a polarimeter and tell for sure.

yes, really not that difficult. I remember doing this experiment in my basic physics lab course, and the lab was really ooooold. we didn't even have ketamin, but just some other boring chrial compound.

 

[Solipsis]

Merged.

I have experimented with the two separate isomers as well as the racemate and even 'custom' ratios of the isomers for a short time. To sum up: at first racemic K was all I knew, then when I tried the isomers separately I preferred S-ketamine and enjoyed the potent anaesthetic effects without having R-ketamine complicate things too much and making things schizo. Taking separate isomers also seemed exotic and unusual. But then I became bored with the narcotic effects, I started missing the psychedelic wierdness, so I started adding R to make 30% R : 70% S, finding it to be a sweet spot. Later I just figured: the isomers have nice complementary effects that are just pretty great with racemic. When I got used to the availability and it stopped having that exotic appeal I was happy to return to the racemate.

S-ketamine does not feel physically clean to me, it immobilises me and causes a sort of stupor with regular use - it felt like the metabolites also took their sweet time to keep working, producing mostly side-effects. However with S it was easier to 'hole' with less fucked up ness. Without tolerance it felt like sinking into a nice warm bath.
R-ketamine does not immobilise me at all and allows me to stay functional, however if you go too far with the doses or frequency it can cause pretty severe cognitive effects, resulting in 'schizo' or 'psycho' behavior.

I posted multiple times in this thread, probably enough to explain more elaborately how I experience the differences.

 

[Hanniba1]

To my knowledge I have only had s-isomer ketamine once. I need to look into it more. I was snorting it and I knew that that was something that isn't really recommended with s-isomer. I think I'm going to have to get some more and experiment with IM doses. My friend owns an isolation tank and I was wondering if he would let me IM ketamine inside it afterhours.

 

[angeleyes]

Isomers in Ketamine?

Hi everyone!

I've heard a lot about Ketamine and I've tried to get these questions answered, but every user of Ket I come across doesn't know the answers. Safe!...


1) Is there R-Isomer, S-Isomer and Racemic? (Or is Racemic R-Isomer )
2) What are the differences between them?
3) What do you recommend for a first-time user of Ketamine?
4) What do you like about Ketamine?

 

[limonov]

1) R-, S- & racemic ketamine all exist, however racemic ketamine is by FAR the most common ketamine on the market (both legal & illegal). There are only a couple of brands of S-ketamine while there are literally hundreds of brands of racemic ketamine. Also it's pretty common for racemic ketamine to be sold on the street as S-ketamine...unless you're getting labelled vials of S-ketamine, it's probably racemic- regardless of what your dealer says. R-ketamine exists but is not used in an isolated form (you will NEVER get/see/hear about R-ketamine)

2) S-ketamine is a bit stronger, like 1.5-2 times as strong as racemic. It is subjectively 'more psychedelic', however in my opinion it's simply a bit stronger. The main difference I found was that racemic ketamine causes worse insomnia for me...but I'm very prone to insomnia.

3) Racemic. It's what you're likely to get anyway and it is undeniably a bit 'gentler'.

4) I like dissociatives as a whole, but I like ketamine specifically because of it's quick come-up & short duration as well as the way that it is 'psychedelic' without having an overt stimulant action, as I don't like stimulants. Even LSD can be quite stimulating, even though it's not commonly thought of as a stimulant. It's the closest thing to a psychedelic downer I suppose.

Hope that helps.

 

[LLS207]

Yes, there is an R and S isomer.
S is smoother, lasts longer then R. I have done both many times and I much rather do S.
I love ketamine, I hate how many scammers there are trying to steal your money.
Sorry, I cannot continue right now.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

From what I've found from racemic k, it looks like very small shards whereas s isomer tends to form larger crystals.
For a festival my friend and I split on a half oz which he bought form his vet friend, he was actually cooking some vials up when we came in, and it was extremely small shards.
But the s isomer k I've gotten from other places has been bigger shards and far more powerful

 

[Solipsis]

The reason S-ketamine is more powerful than racemic is because it is about twice as potent per weight as R-ketamine and racemic ketamine is a 50-50 mix of the two isomers.
And the reason S-ketamine may be found in larger crystals on average is because it is not a mixture of compounds while racemic is a mixture of the different isomers. And the more pure something is, the more regular a crystal lattice may be allowing it to grow larger.
But in reverse, you cannot really identify the form your ketamine is in by looking at the size of the crystals or the shape, even if the isomers tend to look quite different. There are just other factors involved like how quickly a solution is allowed to cool if using that kind of precipitation, or how solvents are mixed if it is that kind of recrystallisation.

 

[Dr Mamba]

Merged.

I have experimented with the two separate isomers as well as the racemate and even 'custom' ratios of the isomers for a short time. To sum up: at first racemic K was all I knew, then when I tried the isomers separately I preferred S-ketamine and enjoyed the potent anaesthetic effects without having R-ketamine complicate things too much and making things schizo. Taking separate isomers also seemed exotic and unusual. But then I became bored with the narcotic effects, I started missing the psychedelic wierdness, so I started adding R to make 30% R : 70% S, finding it to be a sweet spot. Later I just figured: the isomers have nice complementary effects that are just pretty great with racemic. When I got used to the availability and it stopped having that exotic appeal I was happy to return to the racemate.

S-ketamine does not feel physically clean to me, it immobilises me and causes a sort of stupor with regular use - it felt like the metabolites also took their sweet time to keep working, producing mostly side-effects. However with S it was easier to 'hole' with less fucked up ness. Without tolerance it felt like sinking into a nice warm bath.
R-ketamine does not immobilise me at all and allows me to stay functional, however if you go too far with the doses or frequency it can cause pretty severe cognitive effects, resulting in 'schizo' or 'psycho' behavior.

I posted multiple times in this thread, probably enough to explain more elaborately how I experience the differences.

Very strange, I got the exact opposit experience.

Long term user of racemic, i now use S isomer and i found it to be :
- less active : need 400 mg to hole, were i need 300 with racemic ( never understoud the 150mg for a hole assuption, even with K straight from the pharma viale )
- less body effect : it puts me in a dreamy state but not in an anesthetic state, i feel less imobilsed
- effect is shorter : I can stand up and return to my computer 3-4 hours after snorting, i need 5-6 hours with racemic
- and most valuable effect : i can sleep after a hole with S, impossible with racemic

My experiences with racemic are with counterless number of sources, my S isomer come from the most reputable and specialised dealer on the internet thing, fine homogenous micro cristalin, realy dont think it is cut.

The hip on S isomer has lead some people to think that racemic is basicaly composed of 50% super-potent S + 50% almost blank R, but its not what i experimented.
Honestly i prefer racemic, i feel it more potent, more wild and chaotic, more beautifull to, more disturbing and vivid, more matrix like.
S is more dreamy, gentle fantasy and creative world, more organic.
S is more expensive, less potent and less profond, but i can move and sleep faster after dosing, thats the only reasons i use it.

 

[SmokingAces]

From what I've found from racemic k, it looks like very small shards whereas s isomer tends to form larger crystals.
For a festival my friend and I split on a half oz which he bought form his vet friend, he was actually cooking some vials up when we came in, and it was extremely small shards.
But the s isomer k I've gotten from other places has been bigger shards and far more powerful

I could relate to all that. Most of the racmic I've came across has been small sugar type crystals but I'm pretty sure I have had big shards that were racemic too. I enjoy both but far prefer the S+ tend to be able to hole from less and when I do actually hole find I'm transported to more interesting places.
The racemic to me has more effect on the body, and requires slightly more to hole. And tends to make me feel a bit sick about the stomach sometimes which I find less of a problem with the S, although it happens sometimes with both.
This thread has made me decided I need some ketamine soon.

 

[vortech]

S+ K is definitely the best of the configurations in my opinion!