Keeping an aqueous solution of a certain drug for extended periods of time.

[DL-ark]

Hi again, if you have seen any of my recent posts you will know that recently I have been working on better methods of storing fentanyl analogues for limited nasal administration. Although I am aware of the extreme risk of hyperfrequent dosage cycles, I have been able to control my use quite well, and will be switching from acetylfentanyl to furanylfentanyl. I have chosen furanylfentanyl because of it's plentiful availability, it's extremely sustainable cost (for my use anyway), and because, after looking at the molecule, it is my opinion that the anecdotal reports of it lasting longer than acetylfentanyl should be true due to the addition of a "large" furanyl group rather than the demethylization of the propanoate group. From my understanding this will slow the drug's metabolism, which is good as I am trying to find opiate substitutes with longer durations of action. I may be completely wrong on this armchair metabology.

My plan is to acquire about half a gram of furanyl fentanyl HCl and dissolve it in 100ml of water. This will make the concentration 5mg / ml. We (I will be splitting this with a buddy) will be likely using an average of 6 doses a day (due to tolerance, we will likely be using 2-3 "doses" per use, twice a day), each dose being 1 tenth of a milliliter. This is a very generous estimate of our use, but I'm expecting it to increase so, we'll see.

This means I will need the solution to last at least 167 days. I also would like the solution to be appropriate for nasal ROA. I know that simply keeping it with distilled water will not be perfect. I will be keeping it away from light in a moderately temperature controlled room (never gets over 72 Fahrenheit). I have talked this over with my buddy, who is slightly less into this sort of thing, but he had the idea of maybe adding a very small amount of peppermint extract as it has a large concetration of ethyl alcohol as well as the oil and chemicals found in peppermint, which are repellents or even toxic to most bacteria. I don't know if it would be better to use that, or just a small amount of grain alcohol. Either way, it needs to be bearable to shoot into my nose. I know that people tend to add salt to these sorts of things, but I don't understand what purpose it serves?

Anyway, I'd also like to say, yes, I am perfectly aware of the dangers of fent analogues are, and when I dissolve the stuff in water I will be sure to wear a disposable OSHA respirator, as well as sleeves, gloves etc, even though half a gram of furanyl fentanyl isn't that crazy (though its more than enough to kill me if im being completely reckless).

So, if you have any suggestions, feel free to let me know. If its not going to work out then I'll probably have to hold on to my supply of vinegar drenched acetylfentanyl then do another such volumetric solution. (vinegar/acetic acid is a superb preservative in my experience, but do *NOT* stick that stuff in your nose...).

Although insufflation of fents feels great, it IS moreish and I will certainly not allow myself to use fent analogues in any way other than careful volumetric dosing, but any suggestions I can get will be greatly appreciated.

 

[aced126]

I think in terms of storage, you'll want to store it in a non-nucleophilic solvent (water is a weak nucleophile so it can start to hydrolyse the amide bond in furanyl fentanyl). That being said, if this is not possible then you'll want to have a very neutral pH so that the hydrolysis occurs very slowly. Both high and low pH environments can catalyse this reaction.

In terms of metabolism, the amide bond will be the first to be hydrolysed. You might be right in saying that furanyl fentanyl has a longer half life because the furanyl group causes more steric hindrance at the carbonyl carbon. However I'm not sure to what degree the half life could be increased.

I know you've probably thought about this and people have told you so, but I'll just say it again as this is a harm reduction forum. You seem to be a smart person and you've said in another post that you can go 48 hours without fent with only minor problems. If you can do that, why don't you just get out while you can? This looks like a terrible idea, and I'm sure others will agree. There is obviously the very real possibility of an acute overdose. But as discussed in another thread of yours, fentanyl and derivatives are much more habit forming than normal opiates, especially with the ROA with which you will administer this. I cannot, and I don't think anyone else can, see this plan ending up in anything but a disaster. Clubcard did mention people still in withdrawal a year after stopping a fent-type habit. If anything, at least use a normal opiate which doesn't induce massive and rapid tolerance like these drugs due to the nature of them. Sorry to bang you about, but once again this is a harm reduction forum and I can't see anything positive happening from this.

 

[PINKoPANaTHER]

I agree it probably isn't wise to set up such a convenient method of administration like this, but I can say I still had withdrawal effects after nearly a year of suboxone too, even at a low dose, because I was on it for so long (3+ years prior to quitting). Any drug taken that long and often will cause lasting changes, but I was able to function somewhat normally after only a few months. I think the easiest way to avoid stability issues is to just split it up more so you make less solution at a time, but that doesn't really answer your question.

Oh, and nasal solutions contain saline because it prevents the irritation to the mucous membranes that happens when regular water washes across them, causing the ion-balance to change by diffusion (which hurts - ever accidentally snorted water when laughing or swimming? It isn't pleasant)

 

[DL-ark]

I think in terms of storage, you'll want to store it in a non-nucleophilic solvent (water is a weak nucleophile so it can start to hydrolyse the amide bond in furanyl fentanyl). That being said, if this is not possible then you'll want to have a very neutral pH so that the hydrolysis occurs very slowly. Both high and low pH environments can catalyse this reaction.

In terms of metabolism, the amide bond will be the first to be hydrolysed. You might be right in saying that furanyl fentanyl has a longer half life because the furanyl group causes more steric hindrance at the carbonyl carbon. However I'm not sure to what degree the half life could be increased.

I know you've probably thought about this and people have told you so, but I'll just say it again as this is a harm reduction forum. You seem to be a smart person and you've said in another post that you can go 48 hours without fent with only minor problems. If you can do that, why don't you just get out while you can? This looks like a terrible idea, and I'm sure others will agree. There is obviously the very real possibility of an acute overdose. But as discussed in another thread of yours, fentanyl and derivatives are much more habit forming than normal opiates, especially with the ROA with which you will administer this. I cannot, and I don't think anyone else can, see this plan ending up in anything but a disaster. Clubcard did mention people still in withdrawal a year after stopping a fent-type habit. If anything, at least use a normal opiate which doesn't induce massive and rapid tolerance like these drugs due to the nature of them. Sorry to bang you about, but once again this is a harm reduction forum and I can't see anything positive happening from this.

I am aware of the impending disaster, I am ordering a pretty small amount compared to what I had before. Psychologically its hard to actually get myself to not dose though especially after a day. I will be making the switch to opium poppies shortly, or maybe even getting clean completely

 

[DL-ark]

I think in terms of storage, you'll want to store it in a non-nucleophilic solvent (water is a weak nucleophile so it can start to hydrolyse the amide bond in furanyl fentanyl). That being said, if this is not possible then you'll want to have a very neutral pH so that the hydrolysis occurs very slowly. Both high and low pH environments can catalyse this reaction.

In terms of metabolism, the amide bond will be the first to be hydrolysed. You might be right in saying that furanyl fentanyl has a longer half life because the furanyl group causes more steric hindrance at the carbonyl carbon. However I'm not sure to what degree the half life could be increased.

I know you've probably thought about this and people have told you so, but I'll just say it again as this is a harm reduction forum. You seem to be a smart person and you've said in another post that you can go 48 hours without fent with only minor problems. If you can do that, why don't you just get out while you can? This looks like a terrible idea, and I'm sure others will agree. There is obviously the very real possibility of an acute overdose. But as discussed in another thread of yours, fentanyl and derivatives are much more habit forming than normal opiates, especially with the ROA with which you will administer this. I cannot, and I don't think anyone else can, see this plan ending up in anything but a disaster. Clubcard did mention people still in withdrawal a year after stopping a fent-type habit. If anything, at least use a normal opiate which doesn't induce massive and rapid tolerance like these drugs due to the nature of them. Sorry to bang you about, but once again this is a harm reduction forum and I can't see anything positive happening from this.

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