• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Keep Sub appt. or taper/cold turkey

G

GettinMyFeetWet

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
45
Hey All,

Thanks so far for following my story and chiming in with helpful advice.
I've found a sub Dr. who says she takes my insurance, so the Dr. visit would only be a co-pay.

I've been trying to taper down off the hydro, but it's reallly hard-I have massive headaches, soreness, and just general fatigue and depression. I think my short stint on 2mg of sub a day somehow RAISED my tolerance. (It's been 72 hours or so since my last sub dose, and I still feel like I am not getting the relief I should be from my hydros.)

On the flip side, I've been doing a lot of reading on the pro's and con's of subs, and it seems that w/d from sub is even WORSE and more drawn out than the w/d from a short acting full agonist.

If you guys were in my shoes, which would you do? Keep the appt. for the sub doctor, or try and continue my taper and then just jump off? I have 38 7.5's left.
I'm really confused about the whole thing. I plan on going to an NA meeting tonight and hearing what they have to say about the issue.

Some other things I am worried about are confidentially issues, my insurance premiums being raised, being flagged as a drug abuser for all eternity, etc.
I may some day truly NEED full agonists again, as I dislocate my knees and elbows often. The appt. is this coming Tuesday, and I have 24 hours to cancel-so I could cancel as late as Monday late morning.

ANY input would be appreciated-I know we all have different experiences, but I'd like to hear as much input as possible before making my decision.
 
First off, Suboxone withdrawals are not nearly as bad as withdrawals from full agonists. They do last longer but only when you've been using it for awhile. From my experience Suboxone withdrawals are mild compared to the rest of opioids.

As for your tolerance, yes Suboxone does raise your tolerance and it is a strong opioid. I was taking 4mg of Suboxone and I decided I was going to relapse for a couple days. I hadn't used an opioid in over a year. I waited 72 hours and took 60MG of oxycodone and didn't feel a thing. Remember I hadn't used anything else in over a year.

You won't be flagged as a drug abuser for eternity if you go onto Suboxone. Some Suboxone doctors also prescribe Suboxone as another option to people who are currently on another pain medication so its not just for drug addiction. Your insurance can't assume your a drug abuser since your going onto Suboxone because not everybody who goes onto it is an addict. It is prescribed for pain also.

Deciding to taper or going onto Subxone is your choice. In the end you will eventually go through withdrawals, the idea is to find an option that causes the least discomfort and I'm not sure which would be a better choice.
 
From my personal opinion and experience I would very much so reccommend trying to taper of the hyrdrocodone on your own. You seem like your dedicated to getting off opiates, so I believe just tapering using the hydros would be your best best of getting clean quickest and with least amount of discomfort.
I've been on suboxone for about 8 months, and originally only planned on staying on it for no more than two months, but it was addicting to me. I have similar results with ALL my friends who have been on suboxone maintainance as well, there are not many successful short term suboxone treatments unless it is in an inpatient facility or detox "hospital".
Since you have 38 hydros still, you'll have plenty to taper yourself down, just remmeber keep taking lower and lower doses, further and further apart. Toughing through the beggining feeling of anxiousness and discomfort, this is where motivation to get off ALL opiates comes into play. I really hope you can do it on your own, because I'm prescribed suboxone and the dependence on that is very frustrating, and I would not wish it upon anyone. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
 
You won't be flagged as a drug abuser for eternity if you go onto Suboxone. Some Suboxone doctors also prescribe Suboxone as another option to people who are currently on another pain medication so its not just for drug addiction. Your insurance can't assume your a drug abuser since your going onto Suboxone because not everybody who goes onto it is an addict. It is prescribed for pain also.
Click to expand...

This needs to be stressed.



Also, GettinMyFeetWet, you've made a lot of threads about this topic, or similar topics. Were you able to search through the Suboxone megathread?
 
Thanks for your replies, guys. I'm going to see the doctor and be honest with her and see what she thinks.

K'd Out, you must live on here, dispensing advice. You're a great asset to this board. Thank You.

OhSeeAt, that's what a couple of people at the NA meeting I went to tonight said when we chatted afterwards-that getting off sub is a challenge in it's own league, and that "detox" use was hard if not impossible.

N.T.-yes, I UTFSE often, but usually to no avail, when it comes to sub questions. With the thread being on it's 12th version, it's really TOUGH to sift through so much information. I seem to get directed to random pages on threads when I search for a specific topic. Also, I feel like a lot of people are coming from a different place than I am-their DOC was banged dillys, H, 150+mg snorted oxy a day, opana IR, etc. Not to say that my actions make me any better or worse, just that I feel like I'm in a different league when it comes to what to expect from W.D. I certainly hope w.d/ing from 45mg Hydro a day is a lot gentler than it would be if I was banging 2 bundles a day.

Just my .02, but I totally understand if I'm abusing my posting privileges and you want to close or merge my posts.
 
N.T.-yes, I UTFSE often, but usually to no avail, when it comes to sub questions. With the thread being on it's 12th version, it's really TOUGH to sift through so much information. I seem to get directed to random pages on threads when I search for a specific topic. Also, I feel like a lot of people are coming from a different place than I am-their DOC was banged dillys, H, 150+mg snorted oxy a day, opana IR, etc. Not to say that my actions make me any better or worse, just that I feel like I'm in a different league when it comes to what to expect from W.D. I certainly hope w.d/ing from 45mg Hydro a day is a lot gentler than it would be if I was banging 2 bundles a day.
Click to expand...

I don't think you're abusing your posting privileges, you've got the same posting privileges as anybody else on here :) You're right, your habit is quite different from a lot of the BLers posting in the Megathreads.

Let us know how things with your doctor goes (but post in this thread when you do ;))
 
Semi-Exciting News/terrifying situation

For the first time, taking 3 7.5 when I woke up is holding me nicely. So for now, I am taking 3 when I wake up (which today was at 2pm-long story), and then 2 around 6 hours later. I'm gonna try one more day of this and then move to 2 and 1.5.

The reason I woke up so late today-f'ing seroquel. It's the only thing that puts me to sleep, but when it puts me out, I am f*cking OUTTT. It's like Mike Tyson KO's my nervous system every night.

Another scary thing-I have usually mild sleep apnea, but last night I had a really scary situation. As often happens, I woke up in a state of sleep paralysis, barely able to breathe, unable to move, and unable to speak. It's quite horrifying, really. Usually, when I summon all of my inner strength, I am able to break out of this "vice" on me in about 30 seconds. This time, I swear it lasted 2 minutes. Towards the end, I was having hypnogogic(sp?) hallucinations, and I thought my mom was standing over me. I was mouthing "stick your finger down my throat, stick your finger down my throat" as I knew that it was my soft palette that was stuck over my windpipe. I could've sworn I felt something go down my throat, as I started gagging, and then all of a sudden I lurched out of it, gasping for breath, and of course-my room was empty.

This has only been happening (with this severity) since I started on the seroquel.
I take a really low dose-only 25mg. Makes me seriously consider not taking it, but it's really the only thing which just completely shuts my brain down. Are there any other meds I could ask for which are as effective as seroquel without the breathing issues? I've tried ambien, temazepam, and sonata, and none of them put me to sleep like seroquel. Also, I do have a cpap machine, but I've found it literally impossible to sleep with it on. I've pretty much completely given up on it.
 
Temazepam, Sonata and Ambien depress breathing more than Seroquel does. If you're having sleep apnea I recommend speaking to the doctor that prescribed you the Seroquel ASAP. Taking opiates with it doesn't help your sleep apnea.

I seriously recommend speaking to your doctor about that issue, Seroquel is one of the safer sleeping medications (at least in the lower dosages you're using).
 
Kick Day/Appt questjions

Hey Guys,

So the taper didn't go quite as planned (big suprise), and tonight will be my last dose. Then Monday I am going to just kick all day, then Tuesday I have my appt. at 2pm. I def. show signs (faucet eyes/nose, sweaty, huge pupils, etc) when I am kicking.
Do they usually give you something that first day, or will I likely have to come back the next day, kicking even worse? I hope they give me something soon, because I have a job on Thursday. (I'm "between" jobs and do things like airport runs and house cleaning for old coworkers.) My worst nightmare is having to drive someone to the airport in rush-hour whilst my bowels are doing the Mambo No.5

Anyone have any idea of what I'm in for?
 
One more quick question-re rx'ing

So, I'm giving up full agonists, but I still will have genuine pain.
I'm pretty much constantly in pain that a pain free person would rate a 7 but over time for me it's more of a 3..just b/c i'm used to it. (Major joint/TMJ issues.)

Would I be laughed out of the office if I asked for a Gabapentin script while I was there? I was rx'ed after one surgery and it actually worked REALLY well, but the next time I went in he asked if I wanted more Gaba or some percs, and being the dumbass I was, I went with percs. Gaba doesn't give me any euphoria, it just literally seems to make the pain go away. Would I be crazy to request it at a sub doctor?
 
GettinMyFeetWet said:
So, I'm giving up full agonists, but I still will have genuine pain.
I'm pretty much constantly in pain that a pain free person would rate a 7 but over time for me it's more of a 3..just b/c i'm used to it. (Major joint/TMJ issues.)

Would I be laughed out of the office if I asked for a Gabapentin script while I was there? I was rx'ed after one surgery and it actually worked REALLY well, but the next time I went in he asked if I wanted more Gaba or some percs, and being the dumbass I was, I went with percs. Gaba doesn't give me any euphoria, it just literally seems to make the pain go away. Would I be crazy to request it at a sub doctor?
Click to expand...

Suboxone doctors don't have any problem prescribing Gabapentin as its not addicting and a better solution for pain than taking full agonists. My doctor was happy to give me a prescription for Pregabalin (same thing as gabapentin, just MUCH more potent) over pain killers. Pregabalin, Gabapentins's bigger brother, is very effective for treating pain, especially nerve pain, and does a great job with anxiety. I don't see a Suboxone doctor having any reluctance prescribing something like gabapentin/pregabalin.
 
If Gabapentin works, will Pregalbin likely work too?

K'd Out, I should be paying you at this point. Thank you for your always helpful input.

I know Pregalbin(Lyrica) is regarded as much stronger and usually more effective, but I've never been scripted or tried it at all. Gabapentin(Neurotin)(sp?) is all I've had, and I KNOW it works-again, no discernible "Euphoria" and DEFINITELY no "nodding," but just a general feeling of contentedness and a complete lack of PAIN.

If Gaba worked, will Lyrica likely work as well/if not better? Or is it like the SSRI group, where paxil may be a perfect fit for one person but drive the next into mania?

Also, which has worse w/d if you decide to come off it, gaba or Pregablin?

Thanks in advance for any input
 
as far as the suboxone goes, I think it's a good choice if you think you won't be able to stay off of opiates once you get clean from hydrocodone. I've kicked opiates a few times for short periods of times but I always go back to them, this is why I am on Suboxone.

if you think you can just quit hydrocodone and not start back up again than more power to you but it sounds like you're at that point where professional help is the wiser choice. It sounds like you're doing that, so that's good.
 
anyone in CT (my state) now how the first visit usually goes? I'm guessing piss test, COWS exam, etc. I WILL be kicking, my eyes are sure to be a fucking water fountain, etc. Will she give me a script, or will I likely have to come back the next day, etc? Just curious how this usually works.
 
GettinMyFeetWet said:
anyone in CT (my state) now how the first visit usually goes? I'm guessing piss test, COWS exam, etc. I WILL be kicking, my eyes are sure to be a fucking water fountain, etc. Will she give me a script, or will I likely have to come back the next day, etc? Just curious how this usually works.
Click to expand...

I know drugs prices aren't allowed but I don't know about prices to start treatment and I don't want to get another warning like last time so I'm a little worried about providing a prices, sorry.

But I can answer your other question. Although I don't live in CT, Not all Suboxone treatments work exactly the same, regardless the state, but at mine you have to wait 48 hours after your last dose before going to your first visit so that you can be observed in full withdrawals and to make sure you don't go into precipitated withdrawals. Once in full withdrawals I was given a physical exam, including a piss test, and then I had to answer some questions about how I felt and was given some 1-5 scales to answer. Your first dose will be based on your answers and your check up. Most likely you will be given 2mg to start off on unless they believe you need a higher dose but most likely 2mg. This is your first appointment.

I was given 3 doses to take once a day. 3 days later you will came back and do all those tests again. You will then be given a higher dose, most likely 4-8mg. I was administered 8mg. I was given 9 pills to take once a day for 7 days. This is a test to see if I took too many because they do a pill count every week or month. So after a week you come back and asked some questions and then either stay on the same dose or increase again depending on how the doctor feels. I was upped to 16mg. You are then given a 1 month prescription.

After that you just go in every month and your dose is adjusted, you have to bring your bottle in every appointment to do a pill count so you can't abuse them. You are given random drug tests, now I have to take one monthly (sucks).

I have Blue Cross and they accept it so I only pay $20 every visit and the Suboxone is cheap, cheaper than Methadone. So that's good. If you don't have insurance I hear its pretty expensive. Not sure how much. So that's how my Suboxone maintenance works.
 
I do have insurance.
One thing to consider:
today was supposed to be my "kick day," but a kindly friend came thru with a 2mg sub, which i took.
should I admit to taking that, or omit that info?
either way, I plan on taking a seroquel to sleep tonight, so i WILL look like a zombie when I go in, and I haven't taken a full agonist in 36 hours.

thanx again k'oed, you;re the man
 
We can't really tell you what to tell your doctor to get a script...but it does look like you'll be okay.

Honesty is the best policy when it comes to talking to doctors.
 
One other thing:
What if she wants to give me TOO much, is it possible to decline and ask for a lesser dose. For example, I was hoping to start at about 4mg a day and wean from there. My friend said a lot of doctors, even if your habit isn't too bad, start you at 16 or even 24 to keep you around longer. If this happens, should I request a lower starting dose, or accept it but only take the smaller amount I was aiming for.
AND if I do take the smaller amount, can they tell in my blood work?

Sorry if this post and the last post straddle the rule fence.

Thanks
 
GettinMyFeetWet said:
K'd Out, I should be paying you at this point. Thank you for your always helpful input.

I know Pregalbin(Lyrica) is regarded as much stronger and usually more effective, but I've never been scripted or tried it at all. Gabapentin(Neurotin)(sp?) is all I've had, and I KNOW it works-again, no discernible "Euphoria" and DEFINITELY no "nodding," but just a general feeling of contentedness and a complete lack of PAIN.

If Gaba worked, will Lyrica likely work as well/if not better? Or is it like the SSRI group, where paxil may be a perfect fit for one person but drive the next into mania?

Also, which has worse w/d if you decide to come off it, gaba or Pregablin?

Thanks in advance for any input
Click to expand...

Not much w/d from Gaba or lyrica..... and I agree that both are "mood uplifting" .... It seriously sounds like you don't have to bad of pain issues.

Ive been off the black tar for nearly 4 years now... and suboxone for 2 years.... Opiates are great drugs but just so damn addictive. My back seriously hurts .. and my neck almost every fucking day. I couldn't even clean my room the other day because bending over made me feeel so sore.

Life is way better tho when you finally give up on the never ending game of painkiller addiction .... Now every now and again I can take 2mgs of suboxone and I get high as a kite and go sing at the open-mic.

I was just RX'd soma for my back. my doctor finally concured with what we had always known.... that my spine is stiff like a stick (down at is goes into the buttocks region) and it's genetic. The Robaxin just wasn't cutting it.... and I basically told my doctor that she obviously was smart and cautious ... but that she was driving me towards crimial behavior. (procurring painkillers on my own)

I don't even like soma much; but combined with a hit or two of the green... and maybe a miligram of klonopin... and the pain from my neck to my butt goes away.

We also agreed that when I am more physically active *former long-distance runner, my pain seems to subside. Also taking adderall doesn't help... (and neither does this long-winded post)
 
Bro if its only for hydro, taper it down. Im on Sub and that stuff its very hard to come off.
Iv been on it for a year now, I don't think i will ever be of it.. And my plan was to be on it for only 2 months, but the first 2 months it gived me such a good buzz, that i was like this is the best thing, but that goes away, and then your only stuck with its side effects.


And the last 2 months Iv been doing some research and Iv notice theres not much people who have been of Sub for too long..

What amount of Hydro do u take? And how long have you been on it? If you been on it for less than a 1 years, taper, I don't think you will develop PAWS once you stop.



Remember once you take Sub your going to be on it for a while, and Sub has more intense side effect than Hydro but no high...

honestly I don't think you have bad enough addiction to hydro to take Sub.\\

Taper hydro then stop then go on a far away vacation for 3-4 weeks.
If that doesn't work then take Sub..
Good luck..
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top