Opioids Just started Suboxone, need some help

[appleguy]

I was taking about 10-14 pills per day of percocet 7.5mg along with about 4 pills of tramadol (37.5MB) per day.

The original start was due to pain but fearing withdrawal and becoming somewhat dependent on these I continued to take them when the paid subsided.

I still have occasional pain and am afraid to tell my Dr. of the abuse, so i obtained suboxone from a friend, 8mg/2mg strips. I have plenty of those to help me get through this (I think).

Since it's not coming from a Dr. I'm not quite sure how much to take and how often. I've done a bit of research here and on other sites, and this is where I am so far:

Took last percocet last night about 8PM, tramadol about 5PM. Woke up this morning with some withdrawal symptoms. I knew to wait it out as long as possible to avoid pre/wd. I took 1/4 at 11AM and I think i started getting some additional w/d symptoms. As suggested I then took 1/8 every 15 minutes until i finished the first dose. I felt "OK". Not normal, but not in withdrawal. Somewhat foggy and not clearheaded, which i was hoping for.

I got REAL tired at 3PM and napped for 45 minutes and then went and took another 1/2.

SO my questions are: Can i spit after some time with the saliva forming in my mouth (it tastes horrible). Should it make me sick in my stomach? Am I taking enough? I want to feel normal. How often should I take it? Should I go 2 times a day, or bigger doses in the AM, or what? And finally, can I take tramadol with it? I haven't yet.

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[appleguy]

Thanks for the help. I wound up taking a total of 8mg on day one. After reading your message I realized I probably should be/want to take less, so yesterday (day 2) I took 2 in the AM, 1 in the afternoon and 2 in the evening.

I'm thinking 4mg would be good. I definitely don't want to wind up worse off on this than I was percs.

I read in several places that since tramadol is synthetic and not technically an opiate that it should still work. I took one last night and it did work fine.

I found some of my back pain coming back since I stopped the percs, so I plan on using the trams to help with that if it continues to come up.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Znegative]

I think it's fine during induction to take 8mg, even if your habit is relatively small however you really want to rapidly decrease the dosage, and get off of it as quick as possible because you would probably experience worst withdrawals from suboxone than you would from your oxycodone (and it will last longer too). I would do something like this:

Day 1 you already took 8mg
Day 2 4mg, divide the dose, 2mg in the am, 2 in the PM
Day 3` cut down to 2mg, take 1mg in the am, 1mg in the pm (if this is too hard, add an extra .5mg)
Day 4 take 1mg and try to make it through the day and night alone. Once again, if things become unbarable add .5mg
Day 5 take .5mg (this is still an active dose). It would be ideal if you could make this your last sub session. If not, wait as long as you can, and take .25mg. MAX.

You really don't want to do a taper that's longer than a week for the ammount of narcotics you were using. Suboxone's half life is super long, and it's very possible to become physically Dependant on it even if you use it only two or three times a week. If you feel like you do need it for cravings, and to keep yourself from picking up, take .5mg a day. It's not a blocking dose but it will satisfy cravings as much (or more), than taking 8mg would. You'd also have a hell of an easier time coming off of it.

 

[Swain]

Znegative has it right. If you contineu to take 8mg daily you are going to be boosting your dependency like crazy. 8mg woudl be enough for like 600mg oxy lol.

 

[Workin2005]

^^^Agreed...I was taking 200-300 mgs of oxy per day for the last 1.5 years. I switched to Suboxone 5 days ago.

Day 1 I took 4 mgs.
Day 2 I took 3 mgs.
Day 3 I took 2 mgs.
Day 4 I took 0.5 mgs.
Today, Day 5, I haven't taken anything and feel just fine.

I may take 0.5 mgs before bed tonight but am going to try to wait until tomorrow if I can.

I've had no adverse side effects (except mild drowsiness) and have been completely withdrawal free since stopping oxy 5 days ago.

My Suboxone doctor prescribed me 16 mgs per day...which is WAY TOO MUCH in my opinion.

My oxy habit was a lot worse than yours and I seem to be able to stabilize just fine at 0.5-1.0 mg of suboxone per day. I may even be able to quite all together in a week or so. I'm told it takes 2-3 weeks for the body to become dependent on Suboxone so hopefully I'll be able to be off it completely before then. You definatly should be able to...but everyone is different.

As the previous post said, with Suboxone, less is more. Remember...the half life of Suboxone is 24-36 hours so you really shouldn't have to take it every day...maybe just 5 days per week...but, again, everyone is different.

As far as your pain issue...Suboxone does have the ability to help relieve pain to a degree. Between the tramadol and suboxone, you should be able to keep your pain under control fairly well. It's going to require some will power but if you can get off suboxone before your body becomes physically dependent (in less than 2-3 weeks) you will be VERY glad you did in the long run.

Best of luck... ;-)

 

[Titus]

All I have to say is it tases nasty to me and I try to take as little as possible. I've slowly weaned down from 4mg/day (took 8mg day for like a week) over the course of a couple of months. Now I take like 1mg/day. But I've learned (the hard way, again) that it's important for Me to continue to take it. I think it may just be psychological at this point because I think that 1mg of suboxone and I can take an opiate and get the opiate effect without a block (correction, I KNOW I can). Not sure if it's completely psychological or not but on the low dose if I get particularly irritated by something in my life I feel sort of driven to seek out and use an opiate. Such has been my experience. I was doing great on 1mg for a few weeks without wanting or needing an opiate. Then I took an opiate. Maybe I (correction, definitely I should have taken more suboxone the moment I started contempating getting an opiate, at least for that day). I don't want to be on suboxone long term (like 6mo or a year), but I don't want to use opiates either.

I'm doing better than I was a couple months ago, and have learned another valuable lesson. If not on enough suboxone to block opiate feelings and I get agitated, up my daily suboxone use at least for that day to get the block effect and the camling effect I would get from an increased dose of suboxone compared to what my daily dose/tolerance is for suboxone for that day/week.

I've kicked booze in the distant past. Kicked a massive coke habbit. Working on kicking the opiate, although not dependent on it for any lenght of time, it still caused significant problems in my life and definitely did/does more harm than good. The momentary/1 day relief/euphoria I get from the opiate has consistently proven not worth it long term due to the downside (which is mostly just financial for me at this point, and not even a big one at that as I'm not railing grams for 3 days and taking 2-3 days off, railing grams, etc etc.... I gram is too much. And if I use any I am much more likely to use more within the next few days. If steady on suboxone, a dose that keeps me away from opiates, my life, and the life of my family, is much much better off.

Best wishes to all.

 

[epiks]

I would just take 2mg (1/4th pill) and always wait as long as possible. Its not worth precip WD. I won't do it unless its a been a minimum of 18hrs but normally end up waiting 24 just to be safe. Its okay..you arent gtting sick to your stomach because of WD. Well, the WD could make your stomach uneasy, then add a disgusting suboxone and instant pukage for me personally. I just take small pieces at a time in case I do. The longer I wait the better I feel...Prob cause the longer I wait the more receptors open up.

I wouldn't spit the saliva. I sucked a 8mg pill down rather quickly, didnt let the suboxone spit sit in my mouth once. It felt like I took 4mg. The best thing to do is hold whatever it may be, pill or liquid under your tongue for as long as humanely possible.

 

[Dr Pepper]

As people said, slow taper.

To be honest, it would have been easy to simply taper with the meds you had and not mess with suboxone, although with that you might have been tempted to up the dose in order to obtain some euphoric effects.

At your dose you would be comfortable on .5mg-1mg of suboxone IMO, and considering you started with an 8mg, i would just not take ANYTHING until you feel like you need it (withdrawal beginning, shits, etc), and then only dose .5mg. After a few days/weeks (depending on how much discomfort you want to tolerate) .25mg as needed, and then just tough it out.) You could probably get off completely with just a few mg with minimal discomfort.

Learn from others and don't fall into the suboxone trap. It is purported to be way worse of a monkey on your back than oxycodone and other short half-life opioids.