Jimmy Savile (aka: paedo speculation megathread)

[knock]

If 40 year old Spanish guys are happily fucking 13 year olds then technically, no, they are not peados. But they are not right. Fuck the law. That is morally wrong imo.

The law isn't so much the issue. I break the law every day. Some laws are stupid. Such as the law in Spain that says it's OK for a grown man to have sex with a 13 year old.

I actually agree, the law is not the issue. As others have said, taking advantage of (physical or emotional) power is one part of it, and ability to consent is another part.

Do you think it's OK for a 20 year old man or a 13 year old boy to have sex with a 13 year old girl?

I think you could, in theory, have a 40 year old man who is not taking advantage and a 13 year old girl who is mature enough to consent; but I still think it's a problem, because I don't see how you can be confident that there isn't an abuse taking place, and I think it's the 40 year old's brazen confidence that everything's OK that suggests he isn't actually showing much concern or respect for the 13 year old's maturity, or lack of it.

Fleeting lust which is not acted upon is another thing entirely. It's a biological response held in check by a civilised mind.

 

[badandwicked]

I still haven't formulated my thoughts properly on this one but it's turning into an interesting discussion.

In regards to John Peel i was going to say something about Germany during WW2/human beings/normalising crazy stuff given surrounding environment - (being different to predatory) but can't quite get it together enough to post.

 

[parttime crackhead]

I agree Knock. Obviously a 13 year old shagging another 13 year old is a different story, it's the abuse of power, the abuse of maturity, how easy it would be to talk a 13 year old into doing something they wouldn't necessarily want to do when you're a 40 year old dude with a lot more experience of the world etc that is a major part of the issue. Edit - Manipulation! That was the word I was looking for. Obviously not always the case, but a wise 40 year old creep could manipulate a naive 13 year old into doing all sorts with a few simple words.

B&W I may be wrong but I feel as though you really want to defend John Peel but you can't quite manage to do it. Like, you want to say it's OK (because you like John Peel) but the thought of "If it was my daughter..." keeps coming into your head. Of course, I could be a mile out here.

I don't want this to turn into any sort of personal argument, as I feel we are all actually having quite an intelligent conversation for once, albeit about a horrible subject.

 

[knock]

I still haven't formulated my thoughts properly on this one but it's turning into an interesting discussion.

In regards to John Peel i was going to say something about Germany during WW2/human beings/normalising crazy stuff given surrounding environment - (being different to predatory) but can't quite get it together enough to post.

PT and I can indeed take a guess what you're getting at, but I don't think it's a matter of defending anyone, how are you meant to defend the dead anyway? Defend them against what? I think his behaviour might be explained by corrupted norms but it doesn't excuse it, that would suggest it's OK for someone else to do it now, and they could use the same excuse or defense. I think that's why defending or excusing behaviour is not really appropriate, but explanations are always useful.

I think the concept of defence for "deviant" behaviour is just not appropriate, and I think it leads to a lot of confusion. I love explanations though.

 

[badandwicked]

I think that's why defending or excusing behaviour is not really appropriate, but explanations are always useful.

Thats why I made a post trying to explain or understand it, nothing about defending or excusing.

PTCH's right, I can't defend or excuse it, thats the bottom line. It just doesn't seem the same or similar scenario to Jimmy saville, but maybe it is, and thats what I'm trying to understand.

 

[knock]

Thats why I made a post trying to explain or understand it, nothing about defending or excusing.

PTCH's right, I can't defend or excuse it, thats the bottom line. It just doesn't seem the same or similar scenario to Jimmy saville, but maybe it is, and thats what I'm trying to understand.

I was hoping you were going to explain it!

 

[badandwicked]

Ah I see I pretty much meant this:

I think his behaviour might be explained by corrupted norms but it doesn't excuse it,

Its Peel being surrounded by corrupted norms v's Saville not.

Can they be judged equally?

 

[knock]

Ah OK, I was just looking forward to some WW2 stories I don't know any, apart from the vague, one lot of Germans were nasty so other lots of Germans did it too.


Just to be clear what I think on the defence versus explanation thing, I have no interest in punishment for "crime", I do not see the point, I think it is just formalised revenge, and I think the need for vengeance is an unfortunate genetic inheritance from more brutal times (maybe not so long ago). I am much more interested in understanding why people do harmful things, so that we can address the causes, and prevent other people from ever feeling the need to do harmful things in the future.

Right, I think I might have found a vague new career path.

 

[Ceres]

ww2 stories, getting on a bit is badandwicked?

 

[badandwicked]

now look what you've done knock I knew I should have kept my mouth shut but didn't want to avoid the thread :D

yes Ceres, I'm a 87 year old bloke but I don't like to talk about the war much.

back on topic

 

[Cornishman]

Older men who have relationships with young girls are just losers, not paedophiles.

 

[brimz]

I'm not saying i agree with The Spanish & their age of consent but i think that it's worth taking in to account. I mean how many of you lot had Sex before you were 16 ?

 

[knock]

Its Peel being surrounded by corrupted norms v's Saville not.

Can they be judged equally?

Is this the case? They both worked at the BBC!

 

[knock]

I'm not saying i agree with The Spanish & their age of consent but i think that it's worth taking in to account. I mean how many of you lot had Sex before you were 16 ?

If I catch anyone saying yes, it's off with your cocks and balls! And your cunts!

 

[jancrow]

'Off with your cunts'... now that's a phrase I probably haven't heard before.

I had sex with a 15 year old, when I was 15.

 

[badandwicked]

Is this the case? They both worked at the BBC!

My understanding was Peel as a young man was getting sucked off by teens when he was working at a radio station in Dallas in the 60's as the official Beatles correspondent, due to his links with Liverpool. Let's not underestimate Beatlemania, he'd have been hot brit stuff, and these liberated children of the 60's had probably been sucking off their cousins already for a good few years.

And Jimmy Saville was working as a kids TV presenter at the BBC in the 70's and 80's.

Two very different 'norms'.

 

[parttime crackhead]

My understanding was Peel as a young man was getting sucked off by teens when he was working at a radio station in Dallas in the 60's as the official Beatles correspondent, due to his links with Liverpool. Let's not underestimate Beatlemania, he'd have been hot brit stuff, and these liberated children of the 60's had probably been sucking off their cousins already for a good few years.

And Jimmy Saville was working as a kids TV presenter at the BBC in the 70's and 80's.

Two very different 'norms'.

Very different indeed, but Peel was about 25. 2 years younger than me. If a 13 year old sucks my dick today I hope someone cuts my fucking head off.

 

[badandwicked]

But what if she looked & acted 18 and really really wanted to suck your cock and wouldn't take no for an answer?

 

[Ceres]

What if her mum said it was ok?

 

[badandwicked]

Like he said, he didn't ask for ID. I know of underage girls now who have been with guys who would have been horrified to hear their real ages. Guys are more aware now to check, but girls lie, and guys don't always think to ask. You have to be very careful but theres no paedophilia involved.