His stuff about the natural world and rewilding also makes me think.
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Jeremy Corbyn: A very old fashioned breath of fresh air?
- Thread starter mydrugbuddy
- Start date
His stuff about the natural world and rewilding also makes me think.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Thoughts on the apparent "Purge," folks? I'd say it beggars belief that the ("New") Labour machine would be so insanely stupid but they wheeled out Blair himself in full-on apocalyptic mode so belief has already been well and truly beggared. I'm mostly of the opinion that they actually are that stupid as far as believing that it will be helpful. Stupidity is one thing but that would be the stupidity of ignorance. What is more worrisome is the stupidity of knowledge. Of knowing damn well that it is an insanely transparent move but - as Ben Bradshaw stated on Newsnight t'other night - that trying to claw back a relative handful of votes from borderline Tory voters matters more than gathering the far greater number of "lefty" votes because the former make for potentially winnable targets in specific seats whereas the latter are too spread out and don't guarantee any given seat no matter how much higher the overall percentage of people prepared to vote Labour would be with Corbyn as leader. The level of open cynicism is really quite distrurbing frankly. Not to mention Mr Bradshaw's "performance" when sat next to an outraged and (mostly) lifelong Labour voter disqualified from voting due (apprently) to a a couple of Twitter comments.
its the blairites that need purged, they are the entryists and the parasites inside labour, and I'm sure they are a minority in the PLP and those that aren't will probably fall into line for a few months at least once corbyn is in.
its insane that they are attacking themselves like this, it's exposed them for the parasites they are.
all the people they have dragged out of the woodwork to deride corbyn and whip up fear about him are people that either stand to end up as part of a war crimes trial or stand to lose their cushy career options for themselves or their relatives (jack straws son etc)
it isn'#t working anyway, the more it happens the more corbyns support surges. Having seen lots of videos of his speeches and public meetings I get the feeling he is going to really stir things up. The atmosphere at a lot of these meetings reminded me immediately of the energy behind the SNP in Scotland.
I hope he manages to bring ethics back into the political discourse and move the country away from this vicious, dog eat dog, divide and conquer miserable attitude that the tories have fed on to win the election. Look at all the horrible, awful, corrupt shit they have done since may, it does not bear thinking about having another 5 years of the bastards destroying all the public assets and essential services like the NHS, social security for young people, the failure to control rents, the failure to build affordable housing, the nonsense that is austerity, the killer benefit sanctions regime and more. They are acting like an elected dictatorship and a public fed streams of welfare / poverty porn on tv and racist xenophobic hatred in the news, somehow are too bloody blind to see through it.
Fuck the floating tory voters, labour should be trying to win back the masses of people who dont vote because they are sick of the system being a hobsons choice, they shuold win back the votes of the young people who are being pilloried by this governnment, they should work to persuade the public to take on board the notion that it doesn't have to be every man for himself and fuck the rest, and they should tear the tory front bench to pieces in the HoC. I believe Jeremy Corbyn is the man to do this.
its insane that they are attacking themselves like this, it's exposed them for the parasites they are.
all the people they have dragged out of the woodwork to deride corbyn and whip up fear about him are people that either stand to end up as part of a war crimes trial or stand to lose their cushy career options for themselves or their relatives (jack straws son etc)
it isn'#t working anyway, the more it happens the more corbyns support surges. Having seen lots of videos of his speeches and public meetings I get the feeling he is going to really stir things up. The atmosphere at a lot of these meetings reminded me immediately of the energy behind the SNP in Scotland.
I hope he manages to bring ethics back into the political discourse and move the country away from this vicious, dog eat dog, divide and conquer miserable attitude that the tories have fed on to win the election. Look at all the horrible, awful, corrupt shit they have done since may, it does not bear thinking about having another 5 years of the bastards destroying all the public assets and essential services like the NHS, social security for young people, the failure to control rents, the failure to build affordable housing, the nonsense that is austerity, the killer benefit sanctions regime and more. They are acting like an elected dictatorship and a public fed streams of welfare / poverty porn on tv and racist xenophobic hatred in the news, somehow are too bloody blind to see through it.
Fuck the floating tory voters, labour should be trying to win back the masses of people who dont vote because they are sick of the system being a hobsons choice, they shuold win back the votes of the young people who are being pilloried by this governnment, they should work to persuade the public to take on board the notion that it doesn't have to be every man for himself and fuck the rest, and they should tear the tory front bench to pieces in the HoC. I believe Jeremy Corbyn is the man to do this.
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Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Oh I totally agree, Ceres. The part I was somewhat concerned about was the apparently shamelessly transparent - and so proud of it they'll go on Newsnight to... I'd say face their own voter (only one on display but representative of thousands) but he didn't even give the fella the common decency of deigning to look at him whilst dismissing his seemingly very legitimate concerns about being suddenly refused a vote in the leadership election.
Was obvious that "New" Labour got caught off-guard and are making it up as they go along but flat-out removing the vote from under perfectly legitimate Labour party members - associate or otherwise - just beggars belief, no? What can they possibly be thinking? Even if removing the vote from sufficient Corbyn supporters to knock him into second place the complete lack of even the most cursory attempt at obfuscation is just plain bizarre.
Was obvious that "New" Labour got caught off-guard and are making it up as they go along but flat-out removing the vote from under perfectly legitimate Labour party members - associate or otherwise - just beggars belief, no? What can they possibly be thinking? Even if removing the vote from sufficient Corbyn supporters to knock him into second place the complete lack of even the most cursory attempt at obfuscation is just plain bizarre.
yeah it is really dodgy, if they wont let someone like mark steele or ken loach vote, makes you wonder how many people they are pushing out of it because of this paranoia about 'entryism' - which from what I read amounts to 100 odd people in 600,000+ signups. Absolutely ridiculous that they should turn away people as if NO WE DONT WANT YOU TO VOTE FOR OUR PARTY YOU ARE VOTING WRONG.
I really hope there is no legal challenge to the process or other underhand shenanigans like that, also the sad tory plonkers who were in the news because they managed to sign up and get a ballot paper should seriously examine their commitment to democracy and common deceny. Utter pricks.
I really hope there is no legal challenge to the process or other underhand shenanigans like that, also the sad tory plonkers who were in the news because they managed to sign up and get a ballot paper should seriously examine their commitment to democracy and common deceny. Utter pricks.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
If any legal challenge was to be forwarded surely it would be coming from those - apparent - thousands of legitimate Labour members who have suddenly been refused a vote. I wonder if we are talking at cross purposes here... I am not talking about the handful of Tories and the like who got caught out because they are... well... fukkin stoopid. I was talking about those 600000+ signups who are now in fairly large number being refused their rightful vote due to what seems like widespread, but wafer thin, mass-trawling of Twitter (and presumably FB and any other such medium which directly ties a down online identity to electoral rolls and so forth).
Yes I am being deliberately a little alarmist but given what is actually happening - right out in the open for all to see - that seems entirely legitimate. Mass-surveillance culture meets party politics and doesn't even bother pretend to hide so much as just flatly refuse to look at the human face of a faceless online trawl. I thought it was one of the single most disturbing things I have ever seen in British politics but perhaps that is just me.
Yes I am being deliberately a little alarmist but given what is actually happening - right out in the open for all to see - that seems entirely legitimate. Mass-surveillance culture meets party politics and doesn't even bother pretend to hide so much as just flatly refuse to look at the human face of a faceless online trawl. I thought it was one of the single most disturbing things I have ever seen in British politics but perhaps that is just me.
yeah I agree with you. The concept of democracy in this country is shot to pieces, we don't have democracy, we have corporate interests put in charge with the fig leaf of an election, look at camerons plan to gerrymander with boundary changes and filling the house of lords with yet more tory spongers.
It is slightly frightening to see these people like alistair campbell etc coming out to tell people 'get back in your fuckin box you aren't allowed to have democracy if it isn't going our way.'
One thing is for sure corbyn is waking people up to this game and they are not happy.
It is slightly frightening to see these people like alistair campbell etc coming out to tell people 'get back in your fuckin box you aren't allowed to have democracy if it isn't going our way.'
One thing is for sure corbyn is waking people up to this game and they are not happy.
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
Hmmmm ..... Labour reject everything they originally stood for, in order to try to win a bit of support from disgruntled Tory and Lib Dem supporters, and in the process they alienate their core support base (who mainly oppose austerity). The latter are fragmentated, voting for various smaller parties that ultimately miss out thanks to the insane First-Past-The-Post voting system (which returns the Tories). Labour seem so desperate to win over Tory voters, that they have forgotten about the rest of the population. The ones who might be keen to raise taxes for top earners in order to reverse the austerity cuts, renationalise the energy and railway companies (why TF should we have to shop around for the best deal when there need only be one supplier in the first place, and how much of our money is being spent persuading us we should use a different company that might be a fraction cheaper that wouldn't need to be spent if there wasn't that choice in the first place), and maybe even stop throwing our weight around on the world stage even if it puts a bit of daylight between us and the USA.
Now, If we assume the Powers That Be get their way somehow (remember the Alternative Vote referendum?) and Jeremy Corbyn doesn't get elected Labour leader, is there enough of a movement already in place for the Labour Party to split into a "Conservative Reserves Team" and something more akin to a proper old-fashioned Labour Party?
Also, take a good look at what the Conservatives are doing on their own, now they haven't got the Liberal Democrats spitting on their bonfire. Without their arms twisted halfway up their backs, they talk somewhere to the left of Labour, and might already have been winning back some trust if not for Corbynmania.
I think there's genuine room for a political party led by Jeremy Corbyn, whether or not it be Labour.
Now, If we assume the Powers That Be get their way somehow (remember the Alternative Vote referendum?) and Jeremy Corbyn doesn't get elected Labour leader, is there enough of a movement already in place for the Labour Party to split into a "Conservative Reserves Team" and something more akin to a proper old-fashioned Labour Party?
Also, take a good look at what the Conservatives are doing on their own, now they haven't got the Liberal Democrats spitting on their bonfire. Without their arms twisted halfway up their backs, they talk somewhere to the left of Labour, and might already have been winning back some trust if not for Corbynmania.
I think there's genuine room for a political party led by Jeremy Corbyn, whether or not it be Labour.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
I know Auntie is not always the most popular auld gal around these parts these days (I honestly think we are watching very different channels.. or perhaps interpreting it rather differently) but Nesnight's covering of the relentless and deeply suspect - flat-out shady to the point of genuine unease - anti-Corbyn campaign has been rather good imo. Seems they also share my underlying suspicions about the naked and unabashed trawling of social media sites to nobble Labour supporters, voters and members in what amount to very personalised smear campaigns on the voting public on behalf of the prospective party candidates.
Seems to me several lines have been crossed and they have little or nothing to do with Jeremy Corben beyond what the sheer snarling hatred and terror of the Blairite core lashing out in genuinely jaw-droppingly stupid, self-destructive and deeply, deeply disturbing ways. This really is a pivotal moment. A mainstream political party apparently feels so comfortably justified in removing its own members right to vote (in case they vote the "wrong" way, of course) and they are being allowed to get away with it. I'd much prefer they weren't allowed to get away with it personally
PS: Got so distracted by ranting I forgot the actual linky. Bizarre extended advert for Modafanil on after the Corbyn/vote-rigging bit too if such things take yer fancy.
Seems to me several lines have been crossed and they have little or nothing to do with Jeremy Corben beyond what the sheer snarling hatred and terror of the Blairite core lashing out in genuinely jaw-droppingly stupid, self-destructive and deeply, deeply disturbing ways. This really is a pivotal moment. A mainstream political party apparently feels so comfortably justified in removing its own members right to vote (in case they vote the "wrong" way, of course) and they are being allowed to get away with it. I'd much prefer they weren't allowed to get away with it personally
PS: Got so distracted by ranting I forgot the actual linky. Bizarre extended advert for Modafanil on after the Corbyn/vote-rigging bit too if such things take yer fancy.
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
The BBC are kind of between Scylla and Carybdis.
They are unique among broadcasters in that they sell programmes to viewers. Everyone else is selling viewers to advertisers -- the programmes aren't the product, they're just bait used to lure you in.
The big broadcasters are, by definition, on the side of the Rich. So they aren't going to be too openly critical of a Government with whom they are in bed. But any government could pull the plug on the BBC; so they can't be too critical of the government, either.
(If someone wants to start a separate thread, I'm convinced somebody was very keen not to mandate viewing card slots on all digital TV receivers -- including set-top boxes, recorders and so forth -- which would, to me at least, have been the obvious solution: replace the BBC TV licence with a pay-to-view model, so it's a case of no payment, no pictures. No need for the poison-pen letters and bully-boy enforcement tactics that anyone who has tried to live without a TV set will know. And despite what they may say, people would soon get sick of advertisements, and want to stump up the money for BBC programmes.)
They are unique among broadcasters in that they sell programmes to viewers. Everyone else is selling viewers to advertisers -- the programmes aren't the product, they're just bait used to lure you in.
The big broadcasters are, by definition, on the side of the Rich. So they aren't going to be too openly critical of a Government with whom they are in bed. But any government could pull the plug on the BBC; so they can't be too critical of the government, either.
(If someone wants to start a separate thread, I'm convinced somebody was very keen not to mandate viewing card slots on all digital TV receivers -- including set-top boxes, recorders and so forth -- which would, to me at least, have been the obvious solution: replace the BBC TV licence with a pay-to-view model, so it's a case of no payment, no pictures. No need for the poison-pen letters and bully-boy enforcement tactics that anyone who has tried to live without a TV set will know. And despite what they may say, people would soon get sick of advertisements, and want to stump up the money for BBC programmes.)
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
In all honesty, ("New") Labour - as a 'brand' (for sadly that is exactly what they are now after having chased that status for so long no matter what the cost in terms of integrity or voter trust) has been tarnished seemingly beyond repair for 20-odd years. I truly never thought I would ever have need to consider Labour as anything other than an unthinkable, unelectable - quite frankly downright embarrassing - excuse for a political party. Washed up, lost and uttterly pointless in every way. Irrelevant in any meaningful sense of anything. They know this is make or break - they must do. I rather suspect they'd genuinley prefer to break than to make. Would rather humiiate themselves individually and as a party than to simply accept that Labour voters - and people who would be Labour voters if there was an actual Labour Party rather than a pointless offshoot of the Tory Party - want Labour to be Labour. Not Tory LIte.
erm I'm not sure about that. They make good use of manipulative language, like calling a paltry rise in the minimum wage a 'national living wage' when it is nothing of the sort. Talking about making all schools into academies so they can be run better, when it will do nothing of the sort and talking about having a 7 day NHS when it already exists and they are systematically undermining it in order to bring in privatisation.
They are adopting parts of labours language and parts of their manifesto but in a warped form and using it to mislead people about what they are really doing, and what they are doing is basically asset stripping the uk, handing over everything they can to private operators most of whom are tory party funders, along with supressing the unions and bailling out their fucking banker mates at the expense of the public. On top of that itching to get more involved in the war in Syria.
This is not a government acting in the best interests of the people, this is a corrupt group of parasites acting in the sole interests of themselves and their business friends. They need to be stopped because it's starting to feel like we are living in dickensian times with the trappings of modernity obscuring the fact that there is something seriously seriously wrong with the way this country works.
I am sure the people who have been energised by corbyn and feel he genuinely represents their interests and not the interests of private capital, will not dissapear and go silent any time soon. And the best of luck to them, labour are fucked in scotland, corbyn may be able to regain the trust of some voters up north but the way the tory government is acting now makes a second independence referendum increasingly more likely sooner rather than later.
It makes me so fucking angry to watch the whole circus of media attempting to control the narrative and these con artist politicians creating the lie. Bastards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-rqiaDZUZc 'who is jeremy corbyn?'
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I think the newlabourites are doing stupid things because they're all over the shop with cognitive dissonance (some of them are probably stupid as well (at least one of them is maniacal)) - fully accepting corbyn's policies would be like saying their whole life was a sham - does not compute; they've built their banal careers in the neoliberal framework and they thought all the arguments were done and this was just the way you do things now (end of history/globalisation/newworldorder/bollocks); same as the journalists - they're peeved that anyone has the cheek to suggest different ways to do politics cos they consider themselves the experts ("democracy's far too important to trust with the plebs!").
I'm almost feeling sorry for them floundering around for a new angle on the latest desparate smear (i'm not though, cos the bastards will probably win in the end (and they're like actual cunts (i'm sure they're lovely really
(as are cunts))
Whatever happens with jezza (go jezza!), this whole episode should be a handy illustration/reminder for people about how undemocratic our glorious 'democracy' is - and a specific reminder about the so called left media (definitely including the bbc - i've had to complain twice about the coverage (eg how many news reports about corbyn, talking to all the other candidates but not bothering to report any reply off corbyn). And what we've seen up to now against corbyn or scotland is nothing - bottom line they'd have the tanks out before they allowed anything like actual democracy to happen to their cushy city of london establishment (they had the tanks out under harold wilson for fucks sake (probably mind games, but still (there were coups plotted with mountbatten (chalie's uncle) tipped to be the generalissimo)). And they've got thousands of types of electronic/information-based nefariousness before they have to bother with anything physical.
Maybe too hopeful to think we could have a similar awakening as scotland in terms of awareness of media control, but it's more on the cards thasn it has been for a long time.
I'm almost feeling sorry for them floundering around for a new angle on the latest desparate smear (i'm not though, cos the bastards will probably win in the end (and they're like actual cunts (i'm sure they're lovely really
(as are cunts))Whatever happens with jezza (go jezza!), this whole episode should be a handy illustration/reminder for people about how undemocratic our glorious 'democracy' is - and a specific reminder about the so called left media (definitely including the bbc - i've had to complain twice about the coverage (eg how many news reports about corbyn, talking to all the other candidates but not bothering to report any reply off corbyn). And what we've seen up to now against corbyn or scotland is nothing - bottom line they'd have the tanks out before they allowed anything like actual democracy to happen to their cushy city of london establishment (they had the tanks out under harold wilson for fucks sake (probably mind games, but still (there were coups plotted with mountbatten (chalie's uncle) tipped to be the generalissimo)). And they've got thousands of types of electronic/information-based nefariousness before they have to bother with anything physical.
Maybe too hopeful to think we could have a similar awakening as scotland in terms of awareness of media control, but it's more on the cards thasn it has been for a long time.
i think social media and the new connectness and immediacy of communication these days lets people properly discuss issues, organise and highlight problems much more easily than in the past, no wonder the govt want to access all our communications, I reckon they are terrified at the prospect of this political awakening.
Part of the SNPs success in scotland was their ability to use social media properly to get their message across and make politics feel far more participatory than it has ever been. I'm sure this is a big element of corbyns success so far aswell. I really don't think the genie is going back in the bottle once this unfolds.
and yeah, I don't doubt that they would have troops out in the streets at the faintest whiff of any serious insurrection. I fully expect tension between the tory government and the victims of its policies will reach boiling point soon enough and translate into general strikes, protests and violent clashes with the police, or riots.
Part of the SNPs success in scotland was their ability to use social media properly to get their message across and make politics feel far more participatory than it has ever been. I'm sure this is a big element of corbyns success so far aswell. I really don't think the genie is going back in the bottle once this unfolds.
and yeah, I don't doubt that they would have troops out in the streets at the faintest whiff of any serious insurrection. I fully expect tension between the tory government and the victims of its policies will reach boiling point soon enough and translate into general strikes, protests and violent clashes with the police, or riots.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
If Corbyn wins despite all the underhand tactics the victory will be even more resounding. But we could then see the Labour party launch a legal challenge into the result. My vote has been cast, for once i think my 1 vote could make a difference, in every other election ive been eligible to vote in the result has always been a forgone conclusion by a huge landslide and there's never been any point voting. Corbyn 1st, i really was torn whether to use the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th preferences, they said it wouldnt affect the number 1 preference, but of course it will, all the 2nd place vote prefs will add up if they get enough 1st pref votes too.
I eventually voted for Burnham as 2nd pref (i believe he's a genuine gent and wont sell out on his promises to include corbyn in his camp), left the rest blank, and voted for caroline flint for deputy. I hadn't even heard of any of the other deputy candidates. I think that says as much about their low profile exposure as it does about me keeping up with things. None of the others has ever appeared on TV or been mentioned in the press to my knowledge. They might be better candidates but there's a limit to how much time and effort im going to put into researching all this and weighing everything up.
I eventually voted for Burnham as 2nd pref (i believe he's a genuine gent and wont sell out on his promises to include corbyn in his camp), left the rest blank, and voted for caroline flint for deputy. I hadn't even heard of any of the other deputy candidates. I think that says as much about their low profile exposure as it does about me keeping up with things. None of the others has ever appeared on TV or been mentioned in the press to my knowledge. They might be better candidates but there's a limit to how much time and effort im going to put into researching all this and weighing everything up.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
I only put first preference on principle - i only saw one labour candidate (i took that box i ticked about the aims of the party seriously). Burnham was best out of the others, but that doesn't say much. I voted tom watson as deputy cos he stood up for corbyn in the media the other day, and his stuff on murdoch and paedophiles (though he was shit on other things) and he had len mcclusky on his leaflet (corbyn had charlotte church on his) - they were all terrible though (but i think caroline flint is one of the zombie/blairite/progress bots (luckily she won't win anyway 
).
They can try some legal action bollocks if they think it will do any good (they know enough/are lawyers). I think it's mainly prepping the ground for undermining corbyn if he wins ("elected by an illegitemate process blah blah")
).They can try some legal action bollocks if they think it will do any good (they know enough/are lawyers). I think it's mainly prepping the ground for undermining corbyn if he wins ("elected by an illegitemate process blah blah")