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i've made an IV mess

try get hold of some valium and take it 30-40mins (10-20mgs usually does the trick) prior shooting.
If you're not a daily benzo user it'll get completely rid of the hand/finger shaking, which makes shooting really annoying and frustrating.
 
When all the safer sites are exhausted the choice comes down to the femoral or something in the neck. It wasn't just the forearms that were gone, so were the hands and feet. And I made it quite clear that you could die if you don't do it right, but some people ARE GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY.
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Poster just says her arms, elbows, and hands aren't usable. She still can use her feet (which she mentions she has already), her legs, veins in the bicep/tricep area, *topical* veins in the thighs, and veins in the ankle.

I think she's a long way from using the femoral vein, and quite frankly, I don't think the femoral vein is an option. That's the point where you go from "well you're gonna do it anyways so we should tell them the safe way to do it" to "just don't fucking do it you stupidass, doesn't matter how bad you jones it's time to quit or really fucking regret if as if you haven't already."

I understand harm reduction completely, but there's a certain line where harm reduction and complete abstinence & the whole anti-drug position come together.
 
I understand harm reduction completely, but there's a certain line where harm reduction and complete abstinence & the whole anti-drug position come together.
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I completely agree. But that doesn't mean we should withhold information about the more dangerous things. We're dealing with heavily dependent drug users, who quite frankly aren't "thinking right." Most are going to do whatever it takes to get off. So, I think the best approach is to recommend safer alternatives(switching moas, OST, taper, etc.), discuss the dangers, and then provide information about how to do the more dangerous things as safely as possible.

Just my 2 cents...
 
I don't think injecting in the femoral vein as a regular access spot is an option. It's right on par with injecting directly through your temples in my opinion - in other words, not realistic at all.

I mean, maybe once or twice, but you really think the OP cares much about one or two more shots? You think now that she knows about femoral injections, she'll be good to inject cocaine for a few more months with little issue?

Injecting there is just asking for trouble, way too much trouble. Sure, go for it, tell her how it's done. But 1, I don't think it's that stage for her and there are many other places she can hit, and 2, femoral injections for recreational and regular abuse is just not safe at all. Not at all.

Best approach is to recommend using other sites. Even re-using some of those banged up spots is better than to try hitting the femoral. But if it came to that, just fucking quit. Seriously, femoral injections isn't something you can carry on for more than a week.

edit: don't get me wrong I'm all familiar with risky things we do to get high, and I know the lengths we have to go to. Re-using cottons, sharing needles, all sorts of stuff like that. But there's a line and femoral injections as a regular activity (as opposed to just once) is definitely crossing the line in my opinion.

The OP should definitely look into butterfly needles.
 
I agree with you that it's a dangerous shot, and that's why I said "consider another moa." But I don't think withholding that information is going to help anything. She could cause more damage(hitting a nerve/artery there) if she just goes in blindly. This way, if she decides to try it, even after we all said don't do it, she'll know what to look for.
 
Sure tell her about femoral injections, I'm all for that.

But be sure to disclose all the risks involved too. svascheme3 made it out as if it was plausible.

Harm reduction by education also involves explaining the risks as well. With adequate knowledge in the subject I think it's pretty obvious it's not really a feasible option...
 
^
Right, I said that in my previous post. That's how I do it; I explain the risks and then go about explaining the process. I can't speak for svascheme3 though...
 
my only advice is to try and lay off of shooting coke. Since you are a heroin addict, you need your veins for dope, and if you keep shooting coke, your veins will suffer. Switching to snorting really isnt an option for heroin, b/c it will cost a ton and you wil never get high. other the other hand, if you insist on doing coke, you can switch to snorting or smoking (crack) and still get high.
 
^^I agree. While I generally never recommend smoking crack, I recommend you start smoking crack. :) Seriously though, if you must consume cocaine and cannot stop shooting heroin, at least stop shooting the coke.
 
phrozen said:
^
Mixing depressants can be dangerous.
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How sure are you about the risks of mixing a reasonable amount of diazepam with cocaine?

I would assume a 5-20mg dose to prevent cocaines cardiotoxicity.

But this is just an assumption. I have no facts to back it up. If you do please let me know. I'm interested in the subject.
 
I said mixing depressants. Coke is a stimulant.

I don't really care about coke, so I don't bother really learning about it. But I've never heard that diazepam could prevent its cardiotoxicity. What makes you believe that it would do that?
 
phrozen said:
I said mixing depressants. Coke is a stimulant.

I don't really care about coke, so I don't bother really learning about it. But I've never heard that diazepam could prevent its cardiotoxicity. What makes you believe that it would do that?
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It lowers yor your heart rate as an example. And I believe it therefore lowers your blood pressure as well.

Again no facts back this up correct me if i'm wrong.

What I know is that Where i live if you get to ER for (meth)amphetamine overdose the first thing they do is to give you some diazepam or midazolam (preferably IV) straight away possibly followed by some kind beta-blocker.
 
I'm not sure if all of cocaine's cardiotoxicity is caused by the added stimulant stress. Generally, mixing uppers and downers causes more stress on your heart than taking the same dose of either individually.

I have a paper on what exactly causes cardiotoxicity when taking cocaine, I'll have to dig that up and read it sometime.

As for administering benzo's during a coke(and I guess meth/amp) OD, that's typically done to avoid/control seizures. Seizures may occur when you're oding on coke.
 
Cocaine is bad for the heart. It makes smooth muscle paralyzed temporarily. Which is okay for veins, but bad for the heart.

Then there's the whole overstimulation and raising your heart rate extremely high, which can trigger a heart attack and seizure.

Benzos are used to combat seizures.

Mixing stimulants isn't too bad, I mean as bad as just using one single stimulant can be. But when you mix depressants you get into all sorts of nasty as you just basically shut down your CNS and the part of your brain responsible for doing actions that you don't actively have to work to do (breathing, heart pumping, that kind of thing).
 
phrozen said:
I'm not sure if all of cocaine's cardiotoxicity is caused by the added stimulant stress. Generally, mixing uppers and downers causes more stress on your heart than taking the same dose of either individually.

I have a paper on what exactly causes cardiotoxicity when taking cocaine, I'll have to dig that up and read it sometime.

As for administering benzo's during a coke(and I guess meth/amp) OD, that's typically done to avoid/control seizures. Seizures may occur when you're oding on coke.
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Yeah for controlling seizures as well as preventing the patient to have anxiety attacks/freaking out. But why they sometimes add a betablocker to the mix. My reasoning is because in some cases benzos don't lower the heart rate enough. Afterall benzos are depressants and they slow down your heart rate. They eaven lower your body temperature (in large doses)

I don't think taking a reasonable dose of diazepam (10-20mg) while doing stimulants will do you any harm. As an example i'm on daily regime of benzos and methylphenidate.

My shrink has never eaven mentioned about any contra-indications between these two. of course if you go over board and decide to pop 150mgs of diazepam (while doing coke/amps) that can't be good for you.

Mixing benzos & uppers in reasonable doses takes away the edgines of stims some people suffer as well shaky hands.
 
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