IV Good Thing, IV Bad Thing, Discuss

[Albion]

Collapsing veins is one of the weirdest creepy defence measures the body has.

I mean why. We didn't evolve with junkies in mind!

 

[Cornishman]

You're so vein.

I bet you think this thread is about you.

 

[Albion]

The Good, The Bad & The Intravenous

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

Depends what damage has been done really. If they collapse then they're permafucked as far as I know. Mostly they just hide deep down and don't come out to play anymore. Someone with more accurate medical knowledge could no doubt correct me and explain better but, from my perspective, the ones that start off big and healthy seen to shrivel and die, the slack is taken up by smaller (but still decent enough sized) veins who in turn get battered, shrivel, die and the slack is taken up by even smaller veins... and so on.

Obviously no limbs have dropped off yet so blood is still circulating but I have more or less permanent pins and needles () in the extremeties, feet in particular but also hands are permanently cold too. Circulation still circulates but barely enough to keep stuff working, I'd surmise. I always had atrocious veins so was never a good candidate for longterm IV use of owt but I have no visible veins left in arms or legs anymore. All there is to see - even with a tourniquet - are small and very wiggly capillary-size veins. There are still larger ones deep down but are all heavily scarred now which makes hitting them not only very difficult but also unbelievably painful. Dunno why (thought scar tissue didn't hurt?) but the pain is too extreme to put a needle anywhere near 'em these days. If I ever need to have blood tests done it takes the doc/nurse/phlebotomist literally hours of attempts. Last time was about two years back, took over two hours and she got maybe 1ml of blood in the sample and about a pint dribbled and dripped anywhere but the sample pot

Have heard that exercise is good to beef up blood vessels and really should make the effort... Tis exercise though innit 8)

Never heard of gingko in relation to vein health - may have to look into that. Especially if it doesn't require exercise to have an effect :D

I thought I was bad when it took them like 7 stabs every time I went! The nurses certainly seemed to get pissed off with me. Their answer is always to call over some junior doctor twat, who is far less experienced, but they think i'm stupid enough to let him practise on me for hours on end! Apparently gingko dilates the veins. It comes in my centrum which I thought was a cool bonus.

 

[Albion]

Bit of heroin would do just as good a job.

 

[Shambles]

Collapsing veins is one of the weirdest creepy defence measures the body has.

I mean why. We didn't evolve with junkies in mind!

Don't think it's a defence mechanism as such, Alby. As far as I know, they collapse cos they're so badly damaged they no longer function at all. Those ones don't come back nor get replaced at all. This is different to when veins just go into retreat (which (I think) is more the case with the dregs of veins I have left... somewhere). Veins will often kinda "go into shock" if they're battered but fixable. I presume it's a defence mechanism that evolved more to deal with lions nibbling at limbs rather than self-inflicted jiggery-pokery but who knows - nature is a magical thing :D

Phlebitis is also a bit of a bitch and more of a risk for folks like me who have to rely on teensyweensy dregveins to dig for glory in. Symptoms do ring a few bells I must admit

Mr SB: Years ago the beaten, beleagured and bewildered bloodsuckers would let me hit a vein for 'em when they were struggling. They're not supposed to but were quite understanding that they were causing considerable pain and unlikely to see much reward for their efforts so were easily persuaded to pop out for a cuppa tea and be pleasantly surprised that the vein fairy had paid a visit in their absence. Can't even hit me own veins in less than an hour or so often these days so it's voodoo doll time every time

 

[Cornishman]

RE IV cocaine.

It just seems so much easier to pin up powder than snorting or rocking the stuff.

I see people snort a line of HCL powder and think "that could send me to the moon and back twice" - why bother wasting it up yer nozzle..

I know smoking crack can be v effective. Almost as good as IV'ing, but the hassle of cooking the rocks and the technique needed to get close to an IV hit is all a bit (excuse the pun) hit and miss.

Tis all dangerous stuff tho & it's crazy how selfish the pin can turn oneself.

Must of had about 4 cocaine overdoses in the past month yet I still think of doing more.

 

[DS_]

RE IV cocaine.

It just seems so much easier to pin up powder than snorting or rocking the stuff.

I see people snort a line of HCL powder and think "that could send me to the moon and back twice" - why bother wasting it up yer nozzle..

I know smoking crack can be v effective. Almost as good as IV'ing, but the hassle of cooking the rocks and the technique needed to get close to an IV hit is all a bit (excuse the pun) hit and miss.

Tis all dangerous stuff tho & it's crazy how selfish the pin can turn oneself.

Must of had about 4 cocaine overdoses in the past month yet I still think of doing more.

Aye.

Steady on matey.

 

[Myshkin]

Must of had about 4 cocaine overdoses in the past month yet I still think of doing more.

Grim.

Hope you find a way out of that soon somehow.

 

[Cornishman]

Thanks, but it aint as bad as it sounds.

Was during a mega binge and I certainly learned a lesson. (like there being a v fine line between nice and lethal).

It's just the rush is impossible to beat...

 

[Shambles]

Coke is a sneaky beast and truly fucks yer veins over the mid-longterm. The combination of fiending (so multiple injections over a short(ish) time period) and vasoconstriction is every veins worst nightmare. Whilst you still have plenty of decent veins to play with it may seem the obvious option (trust me, I speak from experience on this one too ) it all goes downhill frighteningly rapidly once you hit that tipping point.

If I could offer a lil HR tip - if you're shooting coke then circulate veins religiously. Don't be tempted to keep hitting the same "ol' faithful" vein over and over cos it's easy cos scar tissue never really heals - just builds up and up until the blighters start collapsing en masse and you suddenly find yourself fucked of vein with little or no chance or ever getting 'em back.

And make sure to use fresh pins every time - that there pic of blunt needles is no joke. They're ripping up veins, laying down permanent scar tissue clogging and potentially causing clots each and every time you reuse a needle long before you feel it jagging.

Take care, Mr Cornishman

EDIT: Forgot to also point out the obvious one - coke is a local anaesthetic so you don't feel the damage you're causing whilst it's happening. You can be totally shredding fuck out of your veins and it'll still feel painless and smooth as silk. This is a particular problem when you're needing to dig around a bit and/or need multiple attempts to hit any given shot. Really is worth transferring any unused solution to a fresh pin between attempts. I know in the real world that's unlikely to happen but is worth considering - a picture paints a thousand words and all that. Observe jaggypintip piccy and take note fellow needle fetishist. I wish there'd been HR advice so clear and readily available when I was starting off down this road

 

[DS_]

Thanks, but it aint as bad as it sounds.

Was during a mega binge and I certainly learned a lesson. (like there being a v fine line between nice and lethal).

It's just the rush is impossible to beat...

Crystal meth

 

[Shambles]

Seconded.

Liquid base was pretty fuckin' insane too. Possibly even more intense than meth was actually. Fag paper between 'em. Would have to sample both again to confirm the exact order. Science innit.

The first time one experiences the joys of a speed/snowball has to be right up there too. Is often the case that you spend yer life fruitlessly chasing the rush from the "first time" of most drugs but that seems to go doubly so for coke/crack/smack combos. at first site

 

[Marmalade]

re: injecting and vein problems - my sis had button holes for her dialysis ... due to needing to use straw like needles in her fistulas.

can you just kinda make your own, so you're only fucking with one site/place/hole at a time, until it obviously eventually collapses?

theyre prone to infection if you don't keep things A1 clean, but it is possible to do, I remember a couple of guys on another forum [ex military] saying they managed to do it

 

[DS_]

Liquid base was pretty fuckin' insane too.

Your veins must've loved that. I bet that hurt didn't it?

 

[Albion]

I should never have let the nurses take that PICC line out of me 6 years ago. When I asked for everything to get administered through it instead of still having to have canulas fitted they informed me that some drugs will degrade it/clog it up. Probably a similar deal for any semi-permanent open vein access system you get sorted with.

Personally I would want to just use a new needle every time just for the peace of mind.

 

[Shambles]

re: injecting and vein problems - my sis had button holes for her dialysis ... due to needing to use straw like needles in her fistulas.

can you just kinda make your own, so you're only fucking with one site/place/hole at a time, until it obviously eventually collapses?

theyre prone to infection if you don't keep things A1 clean, but it is possible to do, I remember a couple of guys on another forum [ex military] saying they managed to do it

Have known folks use medical equipment of similar ilk, Marmz. Usually either nicked from hospitals or snuck out of hospital tratment with 'em still attached. Knew one longterm addict who had a truly impressive set of "things" and tubes that had had to be inserted in veins all up one side of his chest between his ribs due to lack of other functioning veins - had a good half-dozen "pop the cap, insert the needle and away you go" instafix thingies until they all got infected and killed him

As noted, it's keeping 'em sterile that tends to scupper most who attempt it. Haved spoken about the subject many times with doctors and drug workers and the general conclusion is that whilst they seem like a great idea on paper they're actually a complete nightmare outside of the controlled setting. Heavy IV drug users tend not to be so great at the maintanence aspect and they still need changing pretty regularly (depending on the set-up involved).

So yeah, it can be done - can even be done succesfully - but in practice it very rarely is and more often than not goes horribly wrong. To be honest, if you're absolutely scruplulous about sterility, technique, fresh pins every single time, circulating veins between every shot and so forth it's entirely possible to keep yer veins in decent nick for a lifetime. Especially if you stick to just heroin or similar. Most IV users tend to be polydrug users, get terrifyingly sloppy when it comes to "best practice" (and even basic hygiene - let alone actual sterility - for that matter,) engage in "above and beyond" style risky behavior (shooting pills, highly impure substances, using entire sachets of citric in every shot and so on)... And, perhaps most damaging of all, live totally in the moment and frankly don't care about any possible future they tend not to believe will ever come. Can be a somewhat fatalistic - not to mention nihilistic - bunch can the longterm addict population

Your veins must've loved that. I bet that hurt didn't it?

Bwahahahahahaha!

I do believe it stung a bit but was a long time ago when I still had veins like relative drains and such things don't trouble the young injector about town so much :D

 

[Cornishman]

Crystal meth

Yeah. Meth sounds awesome.

Would probably give it a shot if it were readily available.

 

[maxalfie]

When I first started banging up my gear it was great,cook it up &
2 minutes later I'd be feeling great.
But once those veins had been abused for so long it was no longer fun when I'd be sitting there with holes all over my arms and dried blood all over them after half an hour or more of trying to find a vein.
Its so hard to go back to smoking gear once you have injected it.
Last time I went to the hospital I had to see two different people before they managed to get enough blood for a blood test.
I had to show them a vein in my hand which is where they finally got the blood they needed.
Was not a fun experience, made me glad that I no longer bang up my gear.

 

[MrTee]

I don't judge anyone if she/he's using it as long they have control about it, know about safer use and also what do in an emergency.

I hate needles myself, espescially those butterflies and cause of that all steel needles.

Maybe a peripheral venous line is what I can accept, because they pull the steel needle immediately out of that thing (it's a permcath made out of plastic that stays inside), but I don't know if that feels any better and it would also be to much effort. Or you can have it all day on and when you want the next dosage you just pull the drigger by injecting your substance of joice through that attached cap.


cya