Israel is under attack

[snmfmy]

I'm just saying with the evacuations that took place prior. And how omnipresent images coming out of Gaza have been. I would have expected to see some kind of photographic evidence. You don't kill 400 civilians a day in an area the size of Las Vegas without images getting posted to X.

I've seen the go pro footage from the terrorists on Oct 7. I've seen the dead Palestinian babies (and the dolls) surrounded by hordes of cameras. 40,000 dead... where are the devastating photos of mass death?

You kind of do when the buildings fall on top of them.

I can't be 100% sure, but I think except for the people who jumped out of the windows, you couldn't see any of the bodies buried in the rubble of the WTC.

Or for the Alfred Murrough(sp?) government building in Oklahoma City.

 

[mal3volent]

You kind of do when the buildings fall on top of them.

I can't be 100% sure, but I think except for the people who jumped out of the windows, you couldn't see any of the bodies buried in the rubble of the WTC.

Or for the Alfred Murrough(sp?) government building in Oklahoma City.

you must not remember them pulling bodies out on camera for several days afterwards.
also, all the victims are documented and their names are read aloud every year.

40,000 dead is what... twelve 9/11s ?

 

[snmfmy]

you must not remember them pulling bodies out on camera for several days afterwards.

Yes, because they launched a bigger recovery effort than the entirety of the recovery efforts being launched by the Palestinians in Gaza.

And I'm being 100% factual.

The recovery response basically mobilized all of New York City's remaining first responders. From all five boroughs and most of New Jersey and Connecticut.

Considering that there's 10 times the population of Gaza in the New York Metro and probably 100 times more first responder equipment and first responders, I think that I probably downplayed the difference in magnitude between the effort to recover bodies from the WTC and the ability of the Palestinians to even gather bodies from the top of the rubble.

Personally, I think the 40,000 number is plus or minus 30% of the exact number dead.

Yes, a lot of people evacuated, but a lot of people didn't. And they're buried under the apartment blocks.

 

[snmfmy]

However, I'm sure we could find a bunch of YouTube videos where there are families pulling dead bodies out of rubble by hand in Gaza. Probably hundreds of videos.

 

[snmfmy]

Across Gaza, Palestinians search for bodies of loved ones left under rubble for weeks

(16 Nov 2023) RESTRICTION SUMMARY:ASSOCIATED PRESSBureij refugee camp, Gaza Strip - 14 November 20231. Various of men pulling bodies of their relatives from ...

youtu.be

Gaza: Rescuers pull bodies out of rubble

The city has received thousands of displaced people after the Israeli military issued an evacuation order for some 1.1 million people in northern Gaza.#Gaza ...

youtube.com

Swathes of Gaza Strip reduced to rubble by Israeli airstrikes

Drone footage shows large areas of neighbourhoods in the Gaza Strip reduced to rubble by Israeli airstrikes. Subscribe to Guardian News on YouTube ► http://b...

youtu.be

Conservative estimates indicate that over 50% of all buildings in Gaza have been destroyed.

If only 4% of the people who lived in those buildings failed to evacuate, that is 40,000 people.

I feel sad for the civilians in Gaza that have been killed.

But they brought it on themselves or they brought it on their children or they brought it on their disabled parents by allowing the cancer of Hamas and Hezbollah and Fatah and Islamic jihad to take root and fester in Gaza.

Like they say fuck around and find out.

 

[-=SS=-]

I guess there is some space room for interpretation

(Is that valid idiome in english?)

It is (see correction).

 

[Jnowhere]

Hamas, like so many other terrorist groups uses hospitals, schools and mosques to hide out in, store weapons and ammo. They use these places because they just want to create international outrage and increase the number of dead civilians to help their evil cause.
What are the Israeli's supposed to say "opps, we know where they are, and hiding weapons; in schools, mosques and hospitals among other places. However we can't do anything because they are in a safe haven".
Bullshit, If these terrorists want to hide out in hospitals, mosques, schools ect.... then the civilian deaths are on them.
Believe it or not, I could care less what people think, but the lose of innocent lives sickens me; however Hamas and it's supporters have brought this on themselves.
As absurd as it may sound to the Israel haters: The IDF seems to be more concerned about the lives of innocent civilians than the terrorists. Hamas uses all the civilian casualties as political ammo, and the more dead the happier they are. They want international outrage, when they are the ones who started this and will never stop until every Jew is dead.( at least the ones in Isreal).
As far as America goes, we as a nation tend to be brutally honest about the bad things in our past, to the point that it seems as if we are almost being brainwashed to hate our own country.
As far as fair assessments of the situation, I trust America infinitely more than any organization run by the terrorists who started this shit and brain wash children from an early age to hate and want to kill Jews. I have seen plenty of footage of young kids saying that they want to be martyrs when they grow up. There is no way I would ever trust anything that come from the forked tongues of the terrorist sponsored aid groups.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

All I asked was for you to share the "vids of extreme death" you claim to see every single day. Just a few maybe that would illustrate the scale of what is really going on. Because I follow many pro Palestine accounts and haven't seen them. As I've said many times now, I've seen many tragic instances of 1-2 children that get mass shared all around X. I've seen blown up buildings that looked abandoned.

We all know Hamas utilizes propaganda to maximize international outrage against Israel. "We love death more than we love life". That's their words not mine. Forgive me for questioning if such people might inflate civilian death counts. So ghoulish bro.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Will be illuminating. It's not on me to speculate where they're buried, I just listen and read and the numbers make sense. And yes it's likely underreported as well.

You were doubting all the numbers early on as well and then they posted the list, you probably called it bs too. Is it bs? If not they must have been inflating fairly recently right about when the casualty rate started dipping, suspicious!

They dropped thousands of bombs, did a ground invasion and there is large scale starvation, 30k it just makes sense.

I'm not gonna be scouring through Instagram that has limited visibility on so many posts because you don't think the number makes sense with the amount of mass you've seen. Is the article and the things linked enough?

 

[mal3volent]

Across Gaza, Palestinians search for bodies of loved ones left under rubble for weeks

(16 Nov 2023) RESTRICTION SUMMARY:ASSOCIATED PRESSBureij refugee camp, Gaza Strip - 14 November 20231. Various of men pulling bodies of their relatives from ...

youtu.be

Gaza: Rescuers pull bodies out of rubble

The city has received thousands of displaced people after the Israeli military issued an evacuation order for some 1.1 million people in northern Gaza.#Gaza ...

youtube.com

Swathes of Gaza Strip reduced to rubble by Israeli airstrikes

Drone footage shows large areas of neighbourhoods in the Gaza Strip reduced to rubble by Israeli airstrikes. Subscribe to Guardian News on YouTube ► http://b...

youtu.be

Conservative estimates indicate that over 50% of all buildings in Gaza have been destroyed.

If only 4% of the people who lived in those buildings failed to evacuate, that is 40,000 people.

I feel sad for the civilians in Gaza that have been killed.

But they brought it on themselves or they brought it on their children or they brought it on their disabled parents by allowing the cancer of Hamas and Hezbollah and Fatah and Islamic jihad to take root and fester in Gaza.

Like they say fuck around and find out.

A massacre in the Congo in 2004 killed around 150.




Twice that amount are dying in Gaza every single day?
Over five months in, I'm just genuinely curious why there isn't more documentation.

There is horrific stuff all over X. But I'm simply saying that 40,000 dead in a small area, with Hamas eager to show the world the carnage Israel has inflicted--- shouldnt there be more ?

 

[mal3volent]

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Will be illuminating. It's not on me to speculate where they're buried, I just listen and read and the numbers make sense. And yes it's likely underreported as well.

You were doubting all the numbers early on as well and then they posted the list, you probably called it bs too. Is it bs? If not they must have been inflating fairly recently right about when the casualty rate started dipping, suspicious!

They dropped thousands of bombs, did a ground invasion and there is large scale starvation, 30k it just makes sense.

I'm not gonna be scouring through Instagram that has limited visibility on so many posts because you don't think the number makes sense with the amount of mass you've seen. Is the article and the things linked enough?

I read articles like these back in December. Back then the number was around 15,000. An Israeli official said that was not too far off, but the major problem is Israel claims at least 1/3 of those are enemy combatants. The Hamas controlled Gaza health ministry does not acknowledge that. Is a 33% discrepancy in civilian death count insignificant? I would have to assume the ratio has stayed fairly consistent or perhaps dropped as more and more civilians have fled.

I'm just asking questions here. For the twelfth time-- maybe the numbers are close to accurate. As others have said, even if they are, given the scope of the operation I think it could have been much worse. Also considering the fact that Hamas prevented so many from evacuating, hid their bases within civilian infrastructure, etc. But no one takes shit like that into account, do they?

 

[snmfmy]

I read articles like these back in December. Back then the number was around 15,000. An Israeli official said that was not too far off, but the major problem is Israel claims at least 1/3 of those are enemy combatants. The Hamas controlled Gaza health ministry does not acknowledge that. Is a 33% discrepancy in civilian death count insignificant? I would have to assume the ratio has stayed fairly consistent or perhaps dropped as more and more civilians have fled.

I'm just asking questions here. For the twelfth time-- maybe the numbers are close to accurate. As others have said, even if they are, given the scope of the operation I think it could have been much worse. Also considering the fact that Hamas prevented so many from evacuating, hid their bases within civilian infrastructure, etc. But no one takes shit like that into account, do they?

I don't disagree. It could have been worse.

Personally I think the civilian deaths are right around 40 to 50,000.

Whether Hamas prevented them from evacuating or hid their bases within civilian infrastructure doesn't matter with respect to the number of dead civilians.

 

[mal3volent]

I don't disagree. It could have been worse.

Personally I think the civilian deaths are right around 40 to 50,000.

Whether Hamas prevented them from evacuating or hid their bases within civilian infrastructure doesn't matter with respect to the number of dead civilians.

well actually it does matter when you are evaluating whether or not Israel did their due diligence in minimizing civilian casualties. If you have Hamas actively trying to maximize civilian casualties, you know that might make your job a bit harder.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

What video and eyewitness accounts tell us about Gazans killed at aid drop

BBC Verify analyses footage and Israeli statements to trace what happened when more than 100 Gazans were killed.

www.bbc.com

Israel lied? No way.
Who could've imagined after changing their story three times.

It's incomprehensible that this continues to go on

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

These are the people who I go to for raw and accurate numbers, very trustworthy as opposed to other organizations.

How many times have they been caught with their pants down by now?

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

This is the due diligence @mal3volent
There's none man, this is not one or two rotten apples, they just shoot and they always do

 

[Jnowhere]

you must not remember them pulling bodies out on camera for several days afterwards.
also, all the victims are documented and their names are read aloud every year.

40,000 dead is what... twelve 9/11s ?

Actually about 13 and just over a thousand more if you count the 19 terrorists, if not it is still 13 9/11s and then a lot more.
Where are all these so called victims.
Yes some would by burned beyond recognition but the majority would be taken pictures of and video taped as propaganda by Hamas and sent to the media and put on the internet.
This is war, and I am amazed by how few dead there are and disgusted by all the lies of the hate filled, blood thirsty Hamas members and the scumbags helping them.

 

[snmfmy]

well actually it does matter when you are evaluating whether or not Israel did their due diligence in minimizing civilian casualties. If you have Hamas actively trying to maximize civilian casualties, you know that might make your job a bit harder.

I thought your whole issue was that you don't believe the numbers.

Whether somebody's doing their due diligence or not has absolutely zero to do with whether the numbers are believable or not.

 

[snmfmy]

Actually about 13 and just over a thousand more if you count the 19 terrorists, if not it is still 13 9/11s and then a lot more.
Where are all these so called victims.
Yes some would by burned beyond recognition but the majority would be taken pictures of and video taped as propaganda by Hamas and sent to the media and put on the internet.
This is war, and I am amazed by how few dead there are and disgusted by all the lies of the hate filled, blood thirsty Hamas members and the scumbags helping them.

How much video of rescue attempts are there actually in Gaza?

Talking different buildings. They had five buildings after the WTC to actually dig people out of.

Here there's 5000 destroyed buildings. And I'm not artificially increasing the numbers. There's literally 5000 destroyed buildings.

The people in the world trade center buildings were distributed throughout the buildings from the top to the bottom. Some were stuck at the top. Many were trying to leave.

People in Gaza are likely hiding out in the basement from the air attacks and then are buried without any evidence, probably for years until all the rubble can be cleared from the top of their tomb.

It's actually eerily similar to Manhattan with respect to population, so imagine that half of the residential buildings in Manhattan were destroyed by some alien attack and then tell me you don't believe that 40,000 people were killed.

 

[Rachrach]

I only used that phrase because you did. I wouldn't use so callous of a phrase to refer to dead people. And yeah I did read all of your post.


I mean there's a shit ton... Here's one

Loading…

www.npr.org

I guess I just don't understand what you're getting at. Do you think it's possible for the US, or any other government to go in and get some kind of census, in the middle of a war zone? Do you think there's a squad that goes in and counts the bodies? Who, other than the gazan health ministry, do you expect to count these dead? Israel?

It is an imperfect science to begin with.

I understand why you would want to lay blame on Hamas for their attacks, I just don't see why Israel is being seen as some benevolent state acting solely in self defense. What's going on over there is brutal, and both sides have committed atrocities. Not sure why that's so tough to concede for some.

You are running in circles around Collateral Damage but are doing so in a non sensical manner. No matter what facts I present you avoid them & worse yet, you now use the Semantics Card. Let us try a different way: Do you not understand that all armed conflicts produce Collateral Damage? That Israel is doing more than any military in history to minimise them? I already explained many of the steps taken by Israel. I have already explained the steps taken by HAMAS to maximise deaths in Gaza, that they have publicly admitted this more than once...Yet you return to the fact that Gazan civilains are killed...EXCEPT that you have yet to mitigate your wholesale criticism of Israel to discuss the causation for Israel's mere presence in Gaza.

As for a "shi* ton" [sic] of sources about Gazan Collateral Damage, absolutely but you seem oblivious to the fact that all such sources do so by acting as passive supporters of HAMAS, a terrorist group whose Charter is worse than Hitler's "Mein Kampf" in terms of Anti Semitic manifestos. Who cares what HAMAS is claiming given that it says HIV & AIDs were deliberately invented by Jews to harm all non Jews...That groups like the "Jaycees" & "Rotary Clubs" are Jewish cabals invented to do the same...That HAMAS will not stop slaughtering Jews until trees & bushes literally speak to Arabs telling them that Jews are hiding behind them, so that Arabs can finally exterminate the last Jew on the planet...that until they do this there can be no Judgement Day. THAT is your source.

As for some entity going in to confirm deaths, of course that will never be possible EVEN after the war concludes. Muslims are almost always interred within 24-hours. Ergo there will never be a factual & irefutable bodycount. What is possible IS individual claims such as those made by family & friends. Yet they can never even be investigated until after the conflict. Excepting documentary evidence like video & or at least photos that such people ever even existed, that they died in the parameter dates, AND that they were killed by Israeli Forces, there will never be a reckoning.

Unlike Western societies Palestinians do not allow autopsies in all but literally a handful of cases. Look at the Jerusalem-based al Jazeers hack Shirin Abu Aqlah. An upper-middle Xtian, until today nobody can factually & conclusively tell who fired the lethal round that killed her. Like your Gazan bodycounts, your source, et al point their finger at Israel in her case. For reasons I have explored in at least 2 earlier posts here, that is not at all factual. Nevertheless people still scream that Israel "murdered" her. The same will be said about the "30,000+" figure of your source (HAMAS). Just like Shirin Abu Aqlah, that will be deplorable & pathetic.

What we can say factually though, is that Gazans invaded Israel on October 7th, 2023 to rape, pillage, kidnap & murder. We can also factually state how most such cases occurred & what THAT bodycount is: 1,300+.

 

[Rachrach]

I guess there is some space for interpretation

(Is that valid idiome in english?)

No, not any space at all. No females in the IDF stepped foot in Gaza spart from 4 who were Battlion-level physicians crewing on 2 tanks. Ergo a sensible interpretation is that they are happy that they saved lives (including Gazans by the way). However, as the AP's own data shows, the women were not even in Gaza.

As was noted, simply seeing someone in a uniform grinning has nothing to do with any joy at killing.