Israel is under attack

[swilow]

Fwiw there are clips of Netanyahu saying how he thinks it is (was) in Israel's interest to maintain the dominance of Hamas and its thought that he thinks this because Hamas are much less likely to achieve legitimate Palestinian statehood in the eyes of the world with their violent methods than a rival like Fatah. Given the de facto statehood of Gaza and the disaster this has been for Israel, its not a stretch to see why he may be opposed to sharing a border with a state that wishes to exterminate its neighbour.

There is massive daylight between what a corrupt politican like Netanyahu says and whether innocent Israelis should be killed because of that, or that Israel are responsible for October 7th. Netanyahu and his government must bear some burden of responsibility, but simply resigning or dissolving the government wouldn't be enough and would have simply made israel even more vulnerable. That he made mistakes is absolutely true though.

To my mind, he should have said he would step down after eradicating the proximate existential threat. Both Hamas and a corrupt egomaniac like Netanyahu are threats to the people of Israel, but it's only wise to deal with the most pressing threat first. And despite his corruption, the war upon Gaza isn't a corrupt act- it is the same thing that any leader in any other nation would do if faced by the same situation.

 

[paranoid android]

Fwiw there are clips of Netanyahu saying how he thinks it is (was) in Israel's interest to maintain the dominance of Hamas and its thought that he thinks this because Hamas are much less likely to achieve legitimate Palestinian statehood in the eyes of the world with their violent methods than a rival like Fatah. Given the de facto statehood of Gaza and the disaster this has been for Israel, its not a stretch to see why he may be opposed to sharing a border with a state that wishes to exterminate its neighbour.

There is massive daylight between what a corrupt politican like Netanyahu says and whether innocent Israelis should be killed because of that, or that Israel are responsible for October 7th. Netanyahu and his government must bear some burden of responsibility, but simply resigning or dissolving the government wouldn't be enough and would have simply made israel even more vulnerable. That he made mistakes is absolutely true though.

To my mind, he should have said he would step down after eradicating the proximate existential threat. Both Hamas and a corrupt egomaniac like Netanyahu are threats to the people of Israel, but it's only wise to deal with the most pressing threat first. And despite his corruption, the war upon Gaza isn't a corrupt act- it is the same thing that any leader in any other nation would do if faced by the same situation.

Israel feared the potential for a socialist state alot more then they fear hamas to. In Lebanon as well israel did the same thing and funded islamic groups against the socialists.

How is Israel in a vulnerable position at all? They actually have a army unlike Palestine which only has hamas really. You can hardly compare the 2.

 

[swilow]

They actually have a army unlike Palestine which only has hamas really. You can hardly compare the 2

Insurgencies or guerilla tactics are actually incredibly effective as seen in places like Vietnam or Iraq. And either way, 1200 people killed. And more promised. When?? No-one knows. That's a vulnerability.

 

[JGrimez]

So no answer then. Shocker.

You're not asking any sensible questions in good faith.

Meanwhile I'm just waiting to see how far along things have to escalate before you finally condemn Israel's actions.

If anyone said this about Palestinians, they'd be called pro genocide. Weird double standards we're navigating here.

It's not whether it's being said that is the issue, it's whether it's true.

I believe the fundamental disagreement here - is that you can either believe that Israel is serious about peace or that they're not.
When you realize they are not (even if they say they are) then things begin to make a lot more sense.

 

[Soso78]

so idf are shooting women in front of their children.
Bulldozing buildings and tearing up roads and infrastructure.
Nothing to do with hammas.
If u can’t see what’s going on ur brainwashed

 

[Electrum1]

 

[-=SS=-]

so idf are shooting women in front of their children.

Allegedly, and in one particular instance. Don't try and frame it as 'the IDF'.

 

[Soso78]

Allegedly, and in one particular instance. Don't try and frame it as 'the IDF'.

The whole Israeli army are dirty child killers.
Make no mistake, I’ve seen enough footage to confirm what I thought all along.
Nothing to do with hammas. Just about clearing Gaza completely.
It’s m starting to think the Israeli population are as bad. Lots of interviews with Israel citizens saying they happy innocent Palestinians are being murdered.

 

[-=SS=-]

The whole Israeli army are dirty child killers.

Yeah, except they're not. State militaries, especially the Israeli military, are always under scrutiny during their operations. I think we'd know if they were all child killers, and not just allegations from particular instances.

Make no mistake, I’ve seen enough footage to confirm what I thought all along.

Yeah, I don't like making mistakes, so I think I'll broaden my information intake from just you. But thanks.

 

[Soso78]

Yeah, except they're not. State militaries, especially the Israeli military, are always under scrutiny during their operations. I think we'd know if they were all child killers, and not just allegations from particular instances.

Yeah, I don't like making mistakes, so I think I'll broaden my information intake from just you. But thanks.

How many civilians have been killed so far?
Waa 11000 after 4 weeks with roughly 50% children I think.
5000 children in 4 weeks. That’s some going.
Will be loads more by now.
Shameful.

 

[swilow]

Waa 11000 after 4 weeks with roughly 50% children I think.

According to Hamas.

 

[Soso78]

According to Hamas.

What makes u say that?

 

[Mjäll]

What makes u say that?

Are you a pro palestinian who doesn't know that Hamas are their elected rulers?

Or are you joking? If so, very bad joke.

 

[swilow]

What makes u say that?

Gaza's infrastructure is run by Hamas, including the health ministry releasing casualty numbers. Don't know about you, but I don't particularly trust ideological fanatics.

 

[nepalnt21]

fair point, I cannot keep track of the bullshit anymore apparently

instead of (fallaciously) calling it "bullshit", you could have looked in the thread and seen that i have already backed up the claims with examples of public figures calling for not only the genocide of lgbtq ppl, but also for governments to execute those that support lgbtq ppl.

 

[nepalnt21]

Are you a pro palestinian who doesn't know that Hamas are their elected rulers?

Or are you joking? If so, very bad joke.

hamas isn't the end all be all source of numbers. in fact, are they ever even cited? honest question.

unaffiliated groups (human rights organizations) tend to have fairly accurate numbers, at least as accurate as you can have in a place where journalists are being killed like cockroaches in a smokey circus tent.

 

[nepalnt21]

francis boyle, the lawyer who successfully argued genocide charge against yugoslavia (in fact the first successful genocide case argued in the international court if i understand it) says south africa's case is (to paraphrase) a slam dunk.

discuss... digust?

 

[mal3volent]

hamas isn't the end all be all source of numbers. in fact, are they ever even cited? honest question.

unaffiliated groups (human rights organizations) tend to have fairly accurate numbers, at least as accurate as you can have in a place where journalists are being killed like cockroaches in a smokey circus tent.

you can't be serious? The only source is the Gaza health ministry which is controlled by Hamas. Any other group that cites death figures is taking directly from them. The same people who said 500 died when Islamic Jihad struck a parking lot beside a hospital.

 

[Mjäll]

hamas isn't the end all be all source of numbers. in fact, are they ever even cited? honest question.

unaffiliated groups (human rights organizations) tend to have fairly accurate numbers, at least as accurate as you can have in a place where journalists are being killed like cockroaches in a smokey circus tent.

It just seems kinda obtuse to be obtuse to the fact that Hamas have been the source of the numbers previously in this conflict - even though they may not necessarily be the source of all numbers from Gaza ever.

The obvious truth is that none of the sides in this dumb religious conflict is right, and it's deeply saddening that so few western people have retained the intellectual clarity to recognize such things. It's like everyone is secretly subconsciously preparing for some dumb unnecessary world war 3 like zombies.

Religion is not okay.

 

[nepalnt21]

said 500 died

false. this was a mistranslation that news networks (nyt?) ran with and forgot to fact check.