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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel is under attack

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See, again, you are talking nonsense. I posted two links, a photo, etc focusing on Iran's support of Hamas before I ever made that comment.
Well why wouldn't you just say that if you posted the articles beforehand? Why wouldn't you say that they fund Hamas if they said it in your articles?
 
1,200 Israelis died on Oct. 7th when Hamas attacked. Since then ~200-300 more Israelis have died, and ~4,000 Palestinians.

It absolutely seems like Israel is going to take this opportunity to push out the Palestinians and claim that land for themselves. They've already launched more bombs in two weeks than the US launched in any given YEAR of the Afghanistan conflict. Why are they rushing? Palestine is reeling, they aren't going to launch another offensive at Israel any time soon. It was supposedly a fluke that the Oct. 7th attacks were so effective anyway, I doubt Israel will let their guard down again.
 
Hamas take control of the whole area. Will the average Palestinians life be better or worse?
hamas shouldn't run a lemonade stand, let alone a whole country... but it's hard to imagine a worse situation than what the palestinians already live in.

The people here justifying them
nobody here has justified hamas' attacks, supporting hamas, or saying they're innocent.

maybe try not parroting apologetics/ sophistry for israel's war crimes.

The fact is that without Hamas or similar savages, Israel really have no qualms with the Palestinians
then why the awful shit in the west bank where psychopaths ("settlers" like it's fucking oregon trail up in that bitch) treat palestinians like lower than dirt and netanyahu's goons protect them like it's the mafia up in that bitch?

and why the nakba? why the occupation and apartheid and all the good rights only for certain in- groups? eugenics for others (like non- white jews)

what they are actually fighting for.
freedom/ rights for their ppl? i'll admit, their tactics are fucked beyond belief, but to imagine that their only or main motivation is to do shit like kill the queers... it's silly.

their insane idea of the creator of the universe
let's please not get into who has the more insane superstition, especially when the jews and the muslims literally worship the same creator deity.

saaayyyyy, here's a swell idea!

what if they make a secular society where everyone has rights, regardless of what religiosity the exude?!
 
hamas shouldn't run a lemonade stand, let alone a whole country... but it's hard to imagine a worse situation than what the palestinians already live in.
How about a better situation?

It's interesting that noone can bring themselves to actually just say that Palestinians would be better off without Hamas.

then why the awful shit in the west bank where psychopaths ("settlers" like it's fucking oregon trail up in that bitch) treat palestinians like lower than dirt and netanyahu's goons protect them like it's the mafia up in that bitch?
I don't disagree. The situation there needs to be improved. The occupation there had clearly been unethical and criminal.

nobody here has justified hamas' attacks, supporting hamas, or saying they're innocent.



maybe try not parroting apologetics/ sophistry for israel's war crimes.

You're right, people aren't supporting them but when I keep hearing that all of this is Israel's fault and that they caused this, I'm hearing justification. I'm curious how you would describe it if it's not that. You keep shouting war crimes, but why if not to provide a reason for Hamas attacks? As if it's a reasonable response?

freedom/ rights for their ppl? i'll admit, their tactics are fucked beyond belief, but to imagine that their only or main motivation is to do shit like kill the queers... it's silly.

Oh come on. What an absurd straw man. I've never said any such thing. At least do me the courtesy of not making up things I've said.

You are dreaming if you think Hamas are fighting for freedom/rights while at the same time governing Gaza with an iron fist, murdering their political rivals, siphoning off aid money to construct/buy weapons and enacting Islamic law. They are saying this to make their actions more palatable to liberal westerners who have eaten it up to the extent that these same people seem unwilling to truly condemn rape and murder. The stated aim of Hamas is the eradication of the Jews in Israel and the creation of an Islamic state in the region. You know of any Islamic states that aren't illiberal hell-holes for much of society?

You keep referencing the nakba as if that explains it all. But why were the Jews resettling the area in the first place? They were fleeing pogroms throughout Europe that preceded the Holocaust. Consider the duress they were under. Obviously, some awful and consequential things happened, but what choice did the Jews have? Where else could they go but to the one place on earth where they have some tenuous claim? It's not as if the invaded the area with force, or colonised it at the behest of a great power- they fled there to seek asylum. How wise they were.

Palestine has never been a nation state. It was a province of the Ottoman Empire for 400 yrs before being ceded to Britain. It has been inhabited by both Jews and Arabs for thousands of years. What makes the Arabic claim more valid than the Jews?

what if they make a secular society where everyone has rights, regardless of what religiosity the exude?!
Great idea. Who do you think will be easier to persuade on that front, the people who kill and die for minor infractions upon their beliefs, or the nation founded on secular nationalism?
 
swilow said:
It's interesting that noone can bring themselves to actually just say that Palestinians would be better off without Hamas.

I don't think anyone disagrees.

You keep referencing the nakba as if that explains it all. But why were the Jews resettling the area in the first place? They were fleeing pogroms throughout Europe that preceded the Holocaust. Consider the duress they were under. Obviously, some awful and consequential things happened, but what choice did the Jews have? Where else could they go but to the one place on earth where they have some tenuous claim? It's not as if the invaded the area with force, or colonised it at the behest of a great power- they fled there to seek asylum. How wise they were.
I agree they deserved to have a spot in their homeland. Just not sure why they had to kick out 750,000 people to make it happen.
What makes the Arabic claim more valid than the Jews?
The question should be "what makes the Jewish claim more valid than the Arabs'?"

 
The question should be "what makes the Jewish claim more valid than the Arabs'?
I don't think it is. I've said it several times, but there are definite issues with the way Israel was formed, and how it currently operates. But the question of whether or not it has the right to exist is, to me, invalid and also pointless- they're not going to give up their land, ever. They cannot afford to if they want to survive. Nearly every other Arabic nation has come to accept that except a relatively small group of extremists whose constant attacks on Israel are NOT justifiable, are not useful, and are THE cause of Israel's often aggressive militancy.
 
It really is a conundrum. The Palestinians should have never been kicked out, and should be allowed to return. Except now, due to the terrible conditions they've lived in for 75 years, a huge portion of their population has been radicalized, and would be a danger to Israel if they opened the gates back up. The only real long term solutions involve increasing the quality of life for the Palestinians, in some way, shape, or form. That's ultimately what they're most unhappy about. There's like a 50% unemployment rate in Gaza. They barely have any natural resources with which to build an industry, and they have almost the highest population density in the world. Hard to see any solution to their problems other than killing them or helping them. I vote for helping them even tho they'd probably rather kill me. Maybe someday they'll change their mind.
 
I love how much time and effort you put into your posts. The dedication you have to understanding the other person's argument and responding to it in a rational way is really second to none. I often read posts here from people that make me think, "I wish admin could use the ignore function..." but yours always leave me satisfied and glad I had the opportunity to engage in spirited debate.
I put him on ignore. Ignorant and un-educated
 
Except now, due to the terrible conditions they've lived in for 75 years, a huge portion of their population has been radicalized,
Unfortunately, this radicalisation is always imminent with Islam, which is a religion that has always spread through violent conquest. It was literally written into their foundational texts and enacted across much of the world.

There were massacres on Jews in Palestine in the 1920s, well before Israel had been founded. I think this is a point that many simply aren't seeing- that the actual generative cause of the violence we saw in Israel is jihadist Islam.
 
People like you always have the same pre-programmed response. "it's not possible", "thats crazy" etc. What is so unbelievable about it? Do you know history? Do you know the operation they conducted to do this? Probably not.
Eh I'm open to conspiracy theories, but he got some pretty basic parts of the timeline wrong...

He said America entered WW2 after the Rothschilds bought Israel from Great Britain.

The Rothschilds were involved in Zionism early on. They began buying land in the Levant in the late 1800s. Long, long before WW2. He could have also been thinking of the Belfour Declaration, but that was WW1 not WW2.

As for any of it being the US' motivation to enter WW2, eh. Our reasons for entering that war are pretty established, I don't think Zionism had anything to do with the US entering WW2. Or if it was a factor it certainly wasn't the main factor.
 
You've spent 90% of your time in this thread excusing, explaining, justifying why Hamas exist. If you give a shit about torture, you're not making that very clear. It seems more like you're a rabid anti-Israeli/antisemite leftist that supports violence and rape when its directed at Israel.
Yea, I was ready to cuss his ignorant ass out, but I promptly put him on ignore. No sense arguing with a terrorist supporting cockroach.
 
Unfortunately, this radicalisation is always imminent with Islam, which is a religion that has always spread through violent conquest. It was literally written into their foundational texts and enacted across much of the world.

There were massacres on Jews in Palestine in the 1920s, well before Israel had been founded. I think this is a point that many simply aren't seeing- that the actual generative cause of the violence we saw in Israel is jihadist Islam.
Genuinely not all Muslims are like that.

Many of the Jews that survived through the events you allude to only survived thanks to peaceful Arabs that hid them from the violent ones.


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