Is transpersonal experience of cosmic unity achievable alone ?

[lysergication]

S. Grof write in "LSD Psychotherapy" that a LSD subject (his words ) couldn't experience cosmic unity when experimenting alone because he needs a sitter who assume the role of reality checker for him. Otherwise it's like there will always be a part of the individual that will not let go and will prevent the individual to totally surrender to the experience. One should have to delegate the reality checking continuum to the sitter to be able to let down all the psychological defence obstructing the cosmic unity. this make sense to me but..

I'd like to hear BLer experiences about this, if there is peoples who have experienced the contrary.

Do you think it's possible to experience samadhi when alone (for the average individual, not yogis, etc.) ? Is it really easier when there is another person ?

I'm not talking about crazily strong experiences here (entities, quantum experience or other)but strictly about cosmic unity. I've had those kind of experience myself when experimenting alone but I've experimented (well, I mean was fully and consciously aware of..) the cosmic unity only once when tripping with a friend.

I ask because I'd like to begin some work by myself and alone (mostly because I don't know where to look for private psychedelic therapy for personal growth and because I certainly would not be able to afford it anyway) and I wasn't thinking that it would be harder to attain cosmic unity when tripping alone..I though quite the contrary actually

 

[*Love*Lite*]

OH yes yes yes it is possible to reach samadhi when alone. Ive experienced this with DMT back in my hay days but now I would probably prefer a friend or loved one to be silent but present. But some of my most profound revelations have been alone with a DMT pipe, laughing and crying my way out of the bliss and cosmic unity Love and Lite brother. Seek it.

 

[Ismene]

I've never heard anything as silly as Grofs claim to be honest. Of course you can experience anything you want on your own. It's your brain - not the sitters.

I went off Grof when I found out his wife made him stop taking drugs and they set up this ridiculous "holotropic breathing" bollocks. Where they make people pant till they feel dizzy as a way of substituting for drugs.

 

[Shambles]

This sounds downright wrong to me. I can't imagine it would even be possible to achieve this state unless you are alone. People break the spell just by being there. Have only had this happen whilst alone. Have had equally profound (in their own way) experiences of "cosmic unity" with other people during mutual trips but that's a very different thing. The idea of a sober sitter being present is utterly repugnant to me and inconceivable that anybody could ever experience the kinda state being described (smells strongly of "ego death" to me) with a sober guide/sitter/distraction/blocker of psychedelic revelations present. Maybe I'm just an unwitting misanthrope...

 

[villian]

I can't imagine it would even be possible to achieve this state unless you are alone.

this

 

[MyExcuse]

I've done most of my "work" alone and can say, it depends on the person you are with.

If the person was understanding of your unique style of tripping and made the external experience conducive to going deeper into the internal experience, that would allow for a more profound experience.

Often, tripping with another person is more of a distraction than it is useful. A guide would have to be completely detached from, but conversely totally attentive to the needs of, the user. So you would not be able to touch or interact (verbally or nonverbally), but would have to be there in case such interactions were requested or necessary for the safety of the user.

Grof's approach, as is with most psychedelic "therapists", are usually far too involved and detract or eliminate the interpersonal usefulness of a psychedelic state in the presence of a sitter. I liken the approach [of Grof] to beating a philosophical concept into a person by constant vocalisation, rather than providing only the tools and necessary knowledge to that person in order for them to discover it on their own.

To elaborate, due to the nature of most intense psychedelic states (involving but not limited to, entity contact or satori), the mere presence of another [knowingly attentive] person would lead to a deeper state. Any further interactions beyond that would ruin that physical and mental artifact. What you go into the state with, as far as assumptions, will inhibit or promote whatever you wish to achieve. If you are aware of the persons love and attention [to your needs] prior to the experience, that would carry over into the experience and be transformed into a more profound state of understanding involving humans, the universe, god or whatever you wish.

 

[nopipesdfw]

This sounds downright wrong to me. I can't imagine it would even be possible to achieve this state unless you are alone.

This, you must remove yourself from the joke that is general consensus imo.

 

[slimvictor]

It is possible to achieve this state alone, and it is also possible to achieve it without the use of any chemicals.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

while I agree that I have had more of these types of experiences by myself with no one present, I still would like to point out how almost as much of the trip is in your mind, is in the exchange between your mind and that of others.

Sort of like, the aspect of SHARING YOUR REVELATIONS with ANOTHER PERSON, makes them more real, as they now exist not only in your head, but in that of others as well...

This effect is magnified if they other people are your good friends who are also tripping.

But this is not the point it seems that Grof was trying to make.

I would like to say this... (just to play the devils advocate)

How can you feel at one with everything, when you dont have any confirmation that everything feels like you ? (another person to be tuned into the same thoughts, you know the typical, finishing eachothers sentances, or stating something just before the other was going to say the same thing.... you know those moments when its not just you subjectively feeling at one, but others objectively thinking /communicating the same.

Sometimes those are the BEST trip moments, just as sometimes the alone trips have the BEST trip moments too...

I still think to say its IMPOSSIBLE is ridiculous though.

 

[any major dude]

I'd venture a guess that this is an intensely personal thing varying from one individual to another. I have more luck achieving this state either alone, or "alone in a crowd" so to speak. I've had most of my "cosmic unity" type experiences either alone on a couch with my eyes closed or at a concert or festival during music while either not with people i know or not communicating with them. However i certainly don't believe that the way i achieve this is the only, best, or otherwise superior way of going about it.

 

[villian]

How can you feel at one with everything, when you dont have any confirmation that everything feels like you ?

i only speak from my experience, but I didn't feel at one with everything -- I was everything. I was all the energy in the entire universe.. I wasn't a person having these feelings.

here is an excerpt from my trip report to try to make some sense of it

My body broke into millions of atoms and started to pull apart. I felt a presence near me, and it was not welcoming. It seemed like he was in charge, and he was not pleased.

My body continued to rip apart. I remember become confused and scared, and was fighting extremely hard to hold on to reality, I told myself to give in but I was unconsciously fighting it. Fighting it was no use however, and my body completely dissipated.

I was pure energy, and I got pulled directly into the universe becoming one with it.

 

[nopipesdfw]

I'd venture a guess that this is an intensely personal thing varying from one individual to another. I have more luck achieving this state either alone, or "alone in a crowd" so to speak. I've had most of my "cosmic unity" type experiences either alone on a couch with my eyes closed or at a concert or festival during music while either not with people i know or not communicating with them. However i certainly don't believe that the way i achieve this is the only, best, or otherwise superior way of going about it.

Exactly. "Trippy finishings" with your friends have got to be pretty cool, but your truth is ____. Buddha himself doesn't have shit there to put for you past his teachings because I bet that he can't due to his perception not being yours.

I'm not saying having other people around you or events pertaining to them couldn't fall under a "moment of cosmic unity", but I always associate those happenings with something else I guess.

 

[webbykevin]

I think alone is better for deeper experiences, especially if you are comfortable with whatever drug it is.

A sitter just distracts you from being at one with the experience.

 

[Jesusgreen]

This sounds downright wrong to me. I can't imagine it would even be possible to achieve this state unless you are alone. People break the spell just by being there. Have only had this happen whilst alone. Have had equally profound (in their own way) experiences of "cosmic unity" with other people during mutual trips but that's a very different thing. The idea of a sober sitter being present is utterly repugnant to me and inconceivable that anybody could ever experience the kinda state being described (smells strongly of "ego death" to me) with a sober guide/sitter/distraction/blocker of psychedelic revelations present. Maybe I'm just an unwitting misanthrope...

Couldn't have put it better, I find it much harder to achieve ego loss with other people, unless of course they are undergoing a similar experience, it is much easier (and more pleasant) alone.

 

[jamaica0535]

At the kind of levels of intensity that it makes me feel that a sitter is necessary, im not going to be "here" enough to even know they are there.

If you go into the experience without a worry that your going to freak out and have a negative experience, i find that a sitter only stands to ground me to reality.

Just go with it, if your not trying to fight it, why is there any need to ground yourself to anything.

I usually do warn people when they are new to tripping not to try and sleep it off. Laying down in a dark silent room is just asking for things to get crazy.

On that note, what about isolation tanks? Even sober, the nearly complete lack of sensory input is enough to push the mind into some interesting states of consciousness.

It wasn't a pleasant experience, but it was kind of one that reminded me of what your going for. A strong dose of acid, and then a pretty sizable amount of ketamine at the peak. Do have a sitter for this one, you really won't even be able to tell they are there.... It was not an easy experience, for a while while i moved through this almost mechanical system of the workings of the universe or maybe just the human mind i was pretty sure that i had died. There was no control at that point, i was simply along for the ride. I was kind of surprised by the forcefulness, it was like being pushed along without my conscious permission, which is something most of us are not used to. We are self aware and are in control of our own lives; now your just along for the ride, it was a little unnerving.

It wasn't a bad trip, really just because i accepted my own mortality a long time ago, and realize that you could die at any time, it will happen when it happens and that will be that. There isn't much you can do about it when you reach this kind of space so why not just accept it and see where the rest of the trip goes, and then you come down and realize you were just tripping really hard.

Also, DMT is on par with that sort of experience, it is far far more gentle though.... I never really think im dead on DMT, the space is familiar yet so utterly foreign.Its comfortable. I have talked to so many random people who describe trips with elves in them, and i tell the same kinds of things. They always seemed rather inviting and benevolent, albeit a little curious with my being "there".... Some friends were told not to come back by them. Its a very colorful space, it ranges from chaotic beautiful fractals to elf trips... There is a sensual tone to many trips, just subjective observation. Its a beautiful experience usually and for most people, powerful in ways that there aren't words to describe it. I have seen people without a lot of psychedelic experiences go for a breakthrough amount of DMT and love it. Start low and move up, just to have an idea of what your working with and what its capable of.

Personally though, all of my deepest trips with DMT were when it was done alone. I never get up and move around on DMT, i might roll around in my sheets for a bit, but never tried to stand. Shpongle is great music for DMT.

kind of rambled there.