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Is there anything more addictive than heroin?

Crack probably. Prob one drug where alls it takes is one hit to get ya hooked. Not physically but when ya start jonesing you'll be up calling the dealer to delay that comedown and if ya ain't got any xanax to knock yer ass out yer kinda screwed.

Get up the next day and don't even think about just one hit n that's it. Fuck crack.
 
Really sorry if i triggered anyone i should know better very disrespectful of me. I was just tryna see if anyone could relate.
@thextankx thats what i mean like you go to bed with all the motivation to not grab then you wake up and all your common sense goes out the window and you use every justification in the world to pick up. =\ no matter how long im clean for the cravings never seem to go away and ive been clean for 11 months thats my longest yet i still craved and eventually relapsed.
 
It depends what you mean by "addictive"? Do you mean most mentally addicting, or hardest to quit, or causing the most physical dependence?

It's also going to vary a lot from person to person. What one person finds seriously mentally addictive another person may have little problem with and vice versa.

As for physiological dependence, yes there are drugs that are more dependence-causing than heroin, for example:
- methadone
- alcohol
- benzos

These cause far more serious withdrawals than heroin, and in the case of methadone the withdrawals last MUCH longer. And of course physical dependence depends on how much one uses and for how long, and on the individual's unique brain/body.

Then there are drugs that are more immediately mentally addictive, but don't cause nearly as bad of a physical dependence as heroin, for example cocaine or meth someone can just want to do more and more and more very quickly.

There are also things you can do to work on your mental addiction to a drug, for example I used to not be able to even imagine life without heroin or go one day without it, now I only have cravings once in a while and have learned how to not act on them. The drug itself doesn't just cause addiction, drug addiction is a symptom. Certain people are drawn to using heroin in the first place and more prone to getting addicted to it. It's not like you try it once you're automatically addicted, it's estimated that only 1/4 people who try it once go on to become seriously addicted/physically dependent. We use it for a reason, we have to work on those reasons in order to be able to quit and stay clean.

EDIT: Also that list given above is complete bullshit! I won't even begin to rant on everything that is totally bogus about that list. Where is it from?!?
 
Polluted_Mind said:
#20 Methadone
#19 Mescaline
#18 Psilocybin Mushrooms
#17 LSD
#16 Ecstasy
#15 Cannabis
#14 PCP
#13 Caffeine
#12 Cocaine
#11 Amphetamine
#10: Alcohol
#9 Seconal
#8 Quaalude
#7 Diazepam
#6 Heroin
#5 Oxycodone
#4 Crystal Meth
#3 Ice, Glass
#2 Crack
#1 Tobacco

That's apparently the list from studies, but I think it's bullshit as methadone would be severely more addictive than LSD/caffeine/etc.
Click to expand...

yeah that list is retarded I hope no one takes that as fact
 
^ i think the only substances that are off base are psychedelics

caffeine and alcohol should be in the top 5
 
Polluted_Mind said:
#20 Methadone
#19 Mescaline
#18 Psilocybin Mushrooms
#17 LSD
#16 Ecstasy
#15 Cannabis
#14 PCP
#13 Caffeine
#12 Cocaine
#11 Amphetamine
#10: Alcohol
#9 Seconal
#8 Quaalude
#7 Diazepam
#6 Heroin
#5 Oxycodone
#4 Crystal Meth
#3 Ice, Glass
#2 Crack
#1 Tobacco

That's apparently the list from studies, but I think it's bullshit as methadone would be severely more addictive than LSD/caffeine/etc.
Click to expand...
that list is just misinformation
 
i believe that opiates are, beyond a doubt, the most addictive substance in existence..
I am more experienced as an amphetamine user than anything else, but I've never pawned all my possessions or borrowed large amounts of money from people that I knew I couldn't pay off just to buy more amphetamine -- opiates, on the other hand, are a different monster
 
Polluted_Mind said:
#20 Methadone
#19 Mescaline
#18 Psilocybin Mushrooms
#17 LSD
#16 Ecstasy
#15 Cannabis
#14 PCP
#13 Caffeine
#12 Cocaine
#11 Amphetamine
#10: Alcohol
#9 Seconal
#8 Quaalude
#7 Diazepam
#6 Heroin
#5 Oxycodone
#4 Crystal Meth
#3 Ice, Glass
#2 Crack
#1 Tobacco

That's apparently the list from studies, but I think it's bullshit as methadone would be severely more addictive than LSD/caffeine/etc.
Click to expand...

That's both bullshit and meaningless - individuals vary widely in our susceptibility to addiction, and some of the drugs listed - LSD, ecstasy - don't qualify as addictive at all, to my mind. I've been opiate dependent several times, kicked, and gone back, a smoker since I was 14, a speed freak for a few years: and remain hooked on benzos, though I'm trying to taper. I couldn't really rank those drugs in order of addictiveness on even a personal level: I have little to no psychological craving for benzos, but could theoretically convulse and die without them. Cigarettes could well kill me, I'm falling back into daily dope - but then, there was a time when I couldn't get through the day without a few hits of speed, whereas now, I have no trouble abstaining from it. Crack and powder I could always take or leave. So there's no individual consistency, across a poly-drug user's' life, let alone general consistency.

Physically, benzos are certainly the most addictive substance I've used, and dependency develops a lot faster than woth opiates (in my case. at least, and I know I'm not alone), but having become hooked, I want to get off: whereas I doubt I'll ever want to live without at least occasional opiate and cannabis use. It's a lot more complex. I think, than ranking drugs in accordance with universal criteria - there are plenty of purely recreational/therapeutic opiate and benzo users, while plenty of non-recreational drugs (anti-depressants and anti-psychotics, for example), are as addictive as anything sold on the street. Highly dysphoric substances can lead to lifetime addiction and horrible w/ds. There's also a part played by aesthetics and cultural messages, most of them coded: counter-cultural glamour and media coverage of famous addicts makes opiates all the more addictive, whereas those who experience horrific symptoms on ceasing use of Seroxat or Prozac aren't generally seen as 'drug addicts' at all.

The langage used is value-laden, confounding and waroed by law enforcement: some question the concept of addiction per se. There are drugs that definitely do result in habituation and physically traumatic w/ds and drugs that definitely don't - but can still be addictive. I don't think a meaningful hierarchy of addiction can be extracted from a discourse that blends science, pseudo-science, prejudice (crack is worse than coke HCL, because it's a 'ghetto drug'), and ideology.
 
By "addicting" I assume you mean psychological addiction and not physical dependence. Big difference. I am dependent to Prozac, by no means do I have a desire to take the drug though. I just don't want to have SSRI withdrawal syndrome.

In my opinion, dust is by far the most addictive substance on the planet. If someone ends up liking it (which many don't) and starts taking it too often, there's absolutely no getting out without immense psychological torment. There's no maintenance with heavy dissociatives, you can't just switch to DXM or something and expect to get by.

I've been down the road of being addicted to opiates. At some point in time your tolerance gets high enough to the point where it can't be enjoyed anywhere near as much and eventually your psychological addiction will break (maybe it's not the same with heroin though, my opiate DOCs were 10/325mg hydrocodone pills and 2mg IV hydromorphone vials, occasionally oxycodone but I don't like it as much as the hydros). I had this happen to me and to deal with the physical dependence I am using kratom. Been tapering off of that and I can say that my desire to use opiates is gone at the moment and my physical dependence is now very low.

When I've done K and dust though (which I've only done twice) the urge to do them again was consuming me for fucking weeks. I had to really restrain myself.

Anyways, that's my experience.

From my understanding, although I've never tried it, Cocaine is a monster when it comes to this sort of thing. Seems, as far as I can tell, that it is the epitome of psychological addiction.

I would never dabble in anything that's particularly psychologically addicting again. I'm sure I'll still take opiates from time to time and that's because even though they're really great and I want to do them, I have the ability to stop myself, occupy my time and eventually stop focusing on them. The biggest concern I have with them is physical dependence and I'll take a physical withdrawal over a mental withdrawal any fucking day of the week. I'd much prefer shivering and being unable to sit still but still having the mentality to power through it and get myself off of whatever substance it is over being not in control of my own mind, incessantly seeking out another fix and being unable to focus on anything else.


Also, I don't think tobacco is very psychologically addictive whatsoever. It seems like everyone I know who smokes says "I need a cigarette now" after they start feeling like shit because they haven't had one, therefore it seems to be more of a dependence thing.

I smoked for about 3 months one year, two packs or so a week. Decided to quit. Felt somewhat sick for about 2 days, bought the patch, put it on and felt better, took it off after a while and then I felt fine. I've since only smoked one or two times over the past two years and they were just cigars.

Who knows, maybe it's addicting for some people but to list it as being "the most addictive" instead of cocaine or methamphetamine is indeed bullshit. I've seen meth destroy more lives than any other drug. I'll stand by that (but dissociatives for me personally are still more addicting).

Also, the fact that alcohol is number 10 on the list is bullshit as well. There are so many people I know who can't function at social/recreational events without alcohol that it's staggering to put it there. Seconal above it? Are you fucking kidding me? No Alprazolam on the list anywhere? And LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline and Ecstasy shouldn't even be there. I mean, I guess you could become psychologically addicted to Ecstasy theoretically but you'd have to be some sort of masochist who enjoys comedowns and you'd have to somehow recover from one so fast that you could do the drug consecutively in short periods of time. Zolpidem (my personal DOC) is the same shit for me. I love it but I could never be addicted because the comedown is so long and bothersome (unless you're asleep, which in my case you're not) that every time I get done with it, I'm so glad to feel normal again that it's going to take a while before I feel like taking some more.
 
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China Rider said:
^ i think the only substances that are off base are psychedelics

caffeine and alcohol should be in the top 5
Click to expand...

There is WAY more wrong with that list than that!

Ok, I'm reversing the order of the list Polluted_Mind posted to it easier to compare with the lists in my following post:

Polluted_Mind said:
#1 - Tobacco
#2 - Crack
#3 - Ice, Glass
#4 - Crystal Meth
#5 - Oxycodone
#6 - Heroin
#7 - Diazepam
#8 - Quaalude
#9 - Seconal
#10 - Alcohol
#11 - Amphetamine
#12 - Cocaine
#13 - Caffeine
#14 - PCP
#15 - Cannabis
#16 - Ecstasy
#17 - LSD
#18 - Psilocybin Mushrooms
#19 - Mescaline
#20 - Methadone
Click to expand...

This list is touted on various internet forums/websites as the list of the "top 20 most addictive drugs". Which it is NOT! And it's not even supposed to be.

Of course, "most addictive" depends on what one means by "most addictive", there are so many factors to consider, and individuals are going to be very different, but those are whole other topics. On any factor this list is all sorts of fucked up. Psychedelics shouldn't even be on there. Who even does Quaaludes or Seconal these days - is this list from the 1970s?!? What is the difference between "Crystal Meth" and "Ice, Glass"? Why in the hell should methadone rank last? Methadone is horribly dependence-causing. And why are some drugs so specific like "diazepam" instead of just "benzodiazepines"?

So, I did some research on it:

Where is this list from?? I can't find an original source, but sites posting it claim it was compiled based on 2 sources:
- In Health magazine: an article featuring a survey by John Hastings (published 1990);
- Marijuana's Perceived Addictiveness: A Survey of Clinicians and Researchers: a survey by Robert Gore and Mitchell Earlywine, from their book Pot Politics: Marijuana and the Politics and the Costs of Prohibition (published 2006).

In Health magazine doesn't even exist anymore, but I did find out the article was based on asking so-called "experts" (no idea who they were, how many or when this was) their opinions to rank the 18 specific drugs they were asked about - only the drugs on the list - on their "addictiveness" level, based on two primary factors: For the "average" person, a) how likely are they to get addicted, and b) how unlikely are they to quit.

Their results (ranked on a scale of 0-100):
#1 - Nicotine (100/100)
#2 - Smoked methamphetamine (99/100)
#3 - Smoked crack cocaine (98/100)
#4 - IV methamphetamine (93/100)
#5 - Diazepam (Valium) (85/100)
#6 - Methaqualone (Quaalude) (83/100)
#7 - Secobarbital (Seconal) (82/100)
#8 - Alcohol (81/100)
#9 - Heroin (80/100)
#10 - Nasally administered amphetamine (78/100)
#11 - Nasally administered cocaine (72/100)
#12 - Caffeine (68/100)
#13 - PCP (57/100)
#14 - Cannabis (21/100)
#15 - MDMA (20/100)
#16 - Psilocybin Mushrooms (18/100)
#17 - LSD (18/100)
#18 - Mescaline (18/100)
Click to expand...

It was just based on 18 drugs that were perceived (by who?) to be some of the most commonly used drugs at the time (whenever that was, it could have been significantly earlier than the publication date) ranking them in comparison to the other drugs on the list.

Marijuana's Perceived Addictiveness: A Survey of Clinicians and Researchers was an internet survey on the opinions of 746 "experts": addiction researchers, clinicians specializing in addiction, and general psychotherapists. Respondents rated their opinion on 3 factors: a) addiction, b) tolerance and c) withdrawal potential of 12 drugs - and only those 12 drugs - in order to come up with a relative generalized ranking. Again, this was just a comparison between the drugs on the list. Interestingly, respondents who had more education and had written more published articles generally gave lower ratings, while those with more clinical contact with specific groups of patients gave higher ratings. So basically someone's experience and education regarding drugs significantly affected their answers (just like how someone here on Bluelight who has only ever been addicted to heroin and has no experience with, say, benzos or methadone might say "heroin is the most addictive drug"). And someone whose job is treating addicts is not going to have much exposure to people who use a drug without getting addicted.

Their results, (ranked on a scale of 0 to 7):
#1 - Heroin (6.62/7)
#2 - Nicotine (6.54/7)
#3 - Crack cocaine (6.48/7)
#4 - Oxycodone (6.25/7)
#5 - Methamphetamine (6.05/7)
#6 - Cocaine (5.86/7)
#7 - Alcohol (5.84/7)
#8 - Amphetamine (5.71/7)
#9 - Caffeine (4.64/7)
#10 - Cannabis (4.46/7)
#11 - MDMA (4.21/7)
#12 - LSD (3.26/7)
Click to expand...

Tolerance alone is not an accurate measure of addictiveness, and some psychedelics rapidly create tolerance - for example LSD doesn't work very well if you take it within a week of previously taking it - that does not mean it's addictive!

Conclusion: Both of these surveys have been debunked, they merely measure the perception of the people asked, nothing more, and better/more recent surveys/studies have very different results. I have no idea how those 2 unrelated sources, measuring perception of different aspects of addiction, were somehow cobbled together to purportedly come up with the above-mentioned list. Who came up with that list? How did they determine the rankings? Why did they even put methadone on the list, since it wasn't on either of the surveys? Why on earth do they think that it could be interpreted as a list of the "top 20 most addictive drugs"? *head explodes*

(BTW, Polluted_Mind, don't take this as directed at you, I know you said you didn't agree with the list :))
 
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RodJonse said:
Also, I don't think tobacco is very psychologically addictive whatsoever. It seems like everyone I know who smokes says "I need a cigarette now" after they start feeling like shit because they haven't had one, therefore it seems to be more of a dependence thing.

I smoked for about 3 months one year, two packs or so a week. Decided to quit. Felt somewhat sick for about 2 days, bought the patch, put it on and felt better, took it off after a while and then I felt fine. I've since only smoked one or two times over the past two years and they were just cigars.
Click to expand...

Try smoking an average of 25-30 a day for 20 years & then come back to me. If I have a coffee I must have a cigarette. If I get in my car I must have a cigarette etc etc etc. Those are not physical cravings I may have had a ciggy 5 minutes before & sufficiently sated my physical dependence but purely psychological & habitual.
 
RodJonse said:
Also, I don't think tobacco is very psychologically addictive whatsoever. It seems like everyone I know who smokes says "I need a cigarette now" after they start feeling like shit because they haven't had one, therefore it seems to be more of a dependence thing.

I smoked for about 3 months one year, two packs or so a week. Decided to quit. Felt somewhat sick for about 2 days, bought the patch, put it on and felt better, took it off after a while and then I felt fine. I've since only smoked one or two times over the past two years and they were just cigars.
Click to expand...

Stevenski said:
Try smoking an average of 25-30 a day for 20 years & then come back to me. If I have a coffee I must have a cigarette. If I get in my car I must have a cigarette etc etc etc. Those are not physical cravings I may have had a ciggy 5 minutes before & sufficiently sated my physical dependence but purely psychological & habitual.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thinking if anything smoking is actually primarily a psychological addiction, that's what makes it so hard to quit! Not saying there is no physical dependence involved, but the psychological factors are far worse for most people. I get angry if I can't have a cigarette right after I eat, and I will chain smoke when I am working, yet be able to go other times for hours without a cigarette if I'm distracted and doing something I don't associate with smoking. My cravings often have little to do with how long it's been since my last cigarette. Just writing about it is making me want one, lol.

There have been studies supporting this, for example putting a smoker under mental stress will make them crave a cigarette, regardless of when their last cigarette was.

And why would anyone get addicted in the first place if smoking wasn't psychologically addictive?
 
I can't really call that anything more than a habit. I mean, you smoked for 20 years.

I could eat the same thing for 20 years every morning like my grandfather does and all of a sudden must eat something else. I'm going to feel compelled to do it how I'm used to doing it and it won't feel right if it don't.


It may be addicting to you, but if takes 20 goddamn years at 25-30 (what the fuck are you doing?) something tells me that it isn't just the drug here that has caused this addiction.

It didn't for me.

Again, that's just MY subjective experience with it though.
 
Swimmingdancer said:
Why would anyone get addicted in the first place if smoking wasn't psychologically addictive?
Click to expand...

I don't know, maybe they enjoy the act of smoking itself. Maybe they enjoy the buzz. Maybe they enjoy that it allows them to calm down.

I enjoy taking Prozac because it allows me to be less depressed. I'm not addicted to it by any means though. I like it. If I could magically stop taking it and experience no withdrawal syndrome, I could do it and completely forget about the drug (though my depression might return at some point in time, at which point I could use another drug).

Seems to me like the same opinion might be held by the chainsmoker who says "I really wish I could quit. I want to quit so much but I just can't." That's how it was for me at least.

I believe you guys have an addiction. I'm not belittling it at all. What I don't believe is that this addiction is inherently caused by the tobacco plant on a psychological level, as opposed to say something like Cocaine, where it is caused entirely by the drug on a psychological level and occurs rapidly after consecutive use.

Doing things for years and years causes whatever it was you were doing to change significantly. I can't comment for them, but for anyone who started smoking a year ago or so and says "I want to quit, but I can't." that's a load of bullshit. Just quit, get the patch, drink coffee and eat more food, maybe a few Vicodin during the hardest parts but eventually the weekend will come and you'll get over it. Certainly much easier to kick than meth and heroin.
 
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