Opioids Is there a way to successfully taper from poppy pods?

[Bojangles69]

MLK you are about to get to a real sensitive part of the taper. I don't mean withdrawal wise most of your hot flashes, chills, goosebumps, and sweating should be nearing an end by now. But for me at that dose phase 2 of wds started which were strictly and only insomnia and RLS.

I need to ask you at this point what is your plan to address insomnia and RLS? Do you just plan on jumping off as low as you can get and not taking anything? This is close to what I tried and I was ready to kill myself after only sleeping about 8 hours in 8 days total (most nights I didn't sleep a single minute at all). I would NOT worry about a single thing right now but addressing the RLS and insomnia.

Logically speaking, whether you jump off at 5gms or 2gms there will NOT be a huge difference. The difference will be more at how long you stay at those low doses for. You can seriously get down to 5gms and just stay there for a week than jump, vs continuing tapering to a lower dose and jumping. Its not going to make a huge difference either way the dose, the amount of time is what matters the most regarding how much crap you will experience.

But I'll tell you straight up if you can figure out a way to slaughter the insomnia and RLS, you could jump off right now and deal with minimal to nothing at all. For me personally about 95% of taper although frustrating at times, when I look back now it was really pretty easy.

The last 5% of the taper, after I jumped off, is what did me in. And if you have SOMETHING, ANYTHING to deal with the insomnia you will be a thousand times better.
My mental wellbeing was great through most of the taper, but the insomnia deteriorated my mind in a matter of ony a week. If I made it to day 9 off the pods I could have easily attempted suicide.
Im not telling you this to scare you, I'm just saying if you can figure out a plan for the insomnia and RLS, you will be golden jumping off the pods. To actually taper to the point where sleep and RLS problems don't show up, it could take another 4 weeks of tapering at fractional doses. Like 5gms, 2 days later 4.8gms, 2 days later 4.6gms... thats the ONLY way to avoid insomnia and RLS imo. They overhang the primary wd symptoms for sooo loongg, thats its best to just have some meds/herbs to deal with them.

Unless you get lucky and can actually sleep, which I've heard happens to some people, then in that case you'll be fine. But for me personally the insomnia is what did me in, and the RLS basically just feeds the insomnia. Well the insomnia can actually be triggered by the RLS alone, but do you have any kind of plan to handle those symptoms? That was personally the hardest part for me.
I'm currently maintaining of .20mg of sub till my sleep meds get here and than I'm off the opiates at that point for good. But once I got under 5-6gms my ability to sleep flew out the window. At 7gms I could sleep a full 8 hours, at 6gms it was 6 hours sleep, 5gms 4 hours sleep, 4gms was my first night completely up. I wound up jumping off completely and got worse day by day until the insomnia did me in. So just keep that in mind I really want you to focus on that aspect of your taper more than anything now.

If you need recommendations for herbs/meds just let me know I have a list of things you can get, some legal others you need a prescription or source obviously.

 

[mlk_2900]

Bojangles69, Thanks so much for stopping in here. As far as jumping off/tapering low, I will probably taper down pretty low before I jump, just to ensure as smooth a jump as possible. Not that I think it will be easy either way, but perhaps a bit easier, and being that I have a toddler to chase after most days that easily wears me out, I need a bit easier. As far as the insomnia, I am almost certain it will be a huge problem for me. I have never slept well and have battled insomnia, as well as RLS, several times through out the last 3 or 4 years, so with kicking pods added to the mix I expecting it for sure. For now, I am taking valerian root and melatonin at night already to help me sleep since I started the taper. However, the good new is I do have a prescription for both Ambien as well as a medicine used for RLS, that my doctor prescribed me last year when I easily went 3-4 days without sleep on a regular occurrence. I am not using either of those medicines now, as I am scared to death to use either in conjunction with the pods (no matter how low my dose is currently) but when I jump and know the pods are not in my system anymore, I fully plan to use them. I reacted well to the Ambien the few times I used it. I would take 1/2 a pill and sleep 8 hours and wake up not being groggy. After 3-4 nights I would take a break as to not develop a tolerance. I can't remember the name of the RLS medicine I have, but personally I never found it helped much. I at least do have it though. If you have any other suggestions feel free to let me know! I welcome any and all help! I know how terrible things can get when you go without sleep. It can really screw with your mind in so many ways. I hope you have something now to help you get some sleep!

 

[Bojangles69]

Thats really the best news you could have told me, and imo the rest of the ride should be fairly smooth.
There was a point at the end of my taper where I actually felt the addiction "break". And what that means basically is whether you DO or DON'T take x gms of pods, nothing really changes eitherway. If you pay superclose attention to your body, that transition from moderately shitty to barely noticeable shitty (you never wanna be 100% normal obviously while tapering) will get smaller and smaller the lower you get. Like redosing at 10gms you will still feel the shift out of sickeness, when you get down to 5gms although its still happening you will almost not feel it at all. And than finally there comes a point where like I said before, if you do or don't take your dose, you don't notice anything either way.
THATS when the addiction has been officially broke imo.

When I got down to 3gms I believe it was, I took my dose and still felt like I was slowly withdrawing regardless of the pods. I realized at that point, even if I dropped again the following day it wasn't gonna make anything better, and thats the point I decided to drop off. But you should definitely be able to tell when that point comes, just listen to your body it will absolutely tell you.
You're extremely fortunate to have both a sleep and RLS med, and I think honestly even if you stopped now it would be pretty damn easy to move on with life.

But still take your time and do your own pace. While you are posting and recording your taper, and other people are leaving feedback and advice, there still remains the fact that understanding what your body is saying.. is the most important part of this entire process. So just keep at it and good luck!! My meds will be here soon enough and me and you both will be free of this shit for good.

 

[mlk_2900]

Bojangles69, I am really fortunate in the sleep medication area, which I think really helps my frame of mind as well. Just the thought of having to endure insomnia and RLS is enough to scare anyone. I know you are having lots of problems with RLS. I saw your post earlier on quinine. I used it a few times to help my RLS as well, in fact that is what my doctor suggested before she gave me a prescription for some medications. I don't know if you have access to a doctor that would help you with a prescription, but if so the RLS medicine I was prescribed is Mirapex. It did help my RLS, it didn't do much for my actual insomnia, but my legs could finally be still. Anyway, just wanted to mention to you in case you were in a position to go that route. I hope you other medications get here soon and you get some true relief! You are right, we will both be done with this soon enough!


Well, I wasn't scheduled to drop again today, but felt stable at 5g, so I went for it this morning and reduced by 20% down to 4g. I also was able to go about 15 hours between doses. I was able to feel slight withdrawals before I took the 4g but not intolerable at all. So far the 4g is holding me, time will tell if I took a drop too quickly or not though. Part of me is almost tempted to just jump out of curiosity, but being that I can't miss any work and don't have anyone to watch my son on the days I don't work should the withdrawals get bad, I am just going to keep with my taper and hope for the best. I had to cancel my appointment yesterday with the clinic I had been talking to but rescheduled for next Thursday. At least my insurance will be in effect by then. Hope everyone's day is going well.

 

[Levvytation]

mlk...sounds like you're doing fine, just take it a day at a time at a pace thats right for you.

Insomnia...my personal nightmare for years, like for many of us. I've always been a night owl, even before getting into drugs. You know how it is....got to be up & doing things so you get an 'early night'....end up tossing & turning all night till its time to get up, then you're suddenly tired & ready to sleep. Nightmare

Funny thing is, the insomnia stage of pod withdrawl isn't as bad as that after a week or so. It's benzo's that cause the real insomnia backlash, and it lasts for months, sometimes years if you get addicted to them.

You're doing fine but please don't get reliant on benzo's. They're insidious things...work great for a bit, then they don't work at all apart from keeping you 'normal'. And then you're in real trouble. Benzo use, 1 week max.

 

[mlk_2900]

mlk...sounds like you're doing fine, just take it a day at a time at a pace thats right for you.

Insomnia...my personal nightmare for years, like for many of us. I've always been a night owl, even before getting into drugs. You know how it is....got to be up & doing things so you get an 'early night'....end up tossing & turning all night till its time to get up, then you're suddenly tired & ready to sleep. Nightmare

Funny thing is, the insomnia stage of pod withdrawl isn't as bad as that after a week or so. It's benzo's that cause the real insomnia backlash, and it lasts for months, sometimes years if you get addicted to them.

You're doing fine but please don't get reliant on benzo's. They're insidious things...work great for a bit, then they don't work at all apart from keeping you 'normal'. And then you're in real trouble. Benzo use, 1 week max.

Yeah, I have been taking easy on the benzos lately. I have used them occasionally during my taper, etc. but when I do I only use 1/4-1/2 a pill once a day (I think one night I used a whole one) and only for 3-4 days before making sure I take a break. I really don't want another habit to break, so I am trying to make sure my body doesn't become reliant on the benzos. I do use them when needed, but only if absolutely needed and then the smallest dose I can. Thankfully I have no benzo tolerance, so 1/4 a pill usually does it for me.

 

[HamClamp]

You're doing GREAT MLK! woo hoo!

I feel good today. 17 hours since my last dose and I feel good I'm down to 4.0g 2/x day now. We're getting there!

Peace.

 

[mlk_2900]

Ham, thanks! You are doing awesome. I am so glad for you that for the most part the withdrawals seem to be over for you. You deserve a break!


Well, update on me as I haven't updated in a few days. Yesterday morning I woke up and didn't feel the need to dose as I have most mornings, which I took as a very good sign. I went about 15 hours between doses and then instead of taking my scheduled 4g only took 2.5 g. It held me through the day just fine and then last night I once again only took 2.5 g. Well, it took it to the middle of the night for the resulting withdrawals to hit me thanks to the horrible long life of the pods. I had bad anxiety, insomnia, that terrible feeling of wanting to crawl out of my skin, some bad RLS, chills, you all know the drill. Finally at 4 am I broke and took half a xanax and half a vicodin because I knew in 3 hours my son would be up and raring to go. I hated that I resorted to that but I did get a couple hours sleep that way at least. I had a rough morning as well when I woke up, went back to my 4 g dosing and it helped a ton. So, no more big drops too quickly for me. I thought maybe my body was ready to be done, but I guess I was wrong. Don't get me wrong, the withdrawals were not unbearable and if I could take a few days off from work and from being a mom I think I would jump and just deal with it, but that isn't possible so onward I go, sticking to my taper schedule this time. I am at 4 g for one more day, tomorrow, then Sunday I will be dropping to 3.25 g or if I am feeling really confident perhaps 3 g. Either way, slowly I am getting there. I have been tapering now for about a week and a half and am at 40% of my starting dose, so I do feel confident in the fact that things are for sure moving in the right direction!

Just wanted to say thanks once again to everyone who has extended their support, experiences and advice in this thread. I never expected such an outpouring of help when I started this thread and really everyone here has truly helped me tackle these devil pods head on. Words can't express my gratitude for that!

Hope everyone out there is having a good night.

 

[monstanoodle]

Really - Well done MLK & Ham

With Benzos, this might just be me, but I seem to be able to use Benzos for a week then stop for a week, then use them again.
So don't be too worried about Benzo addiction but you're right to keep an eye on it

Anyhoo, as always, keep it up both of you!

 

[weevil]

Before I read anyone elses posts on this I will tell you how I managed it. During 2009 I had a dependency on the pods. The first time to take the edge of the horrendous breakup of my relationship and my boredom/loneliness of living alone and not knowing anyone. On the first try I visited a friend and just went cold turkey. This didn't work at all, worst symptom: restless legs which I suffer from naturally sometimes. So when I went home I went straight back on them and even more a cafetiere to make the squeeze part of the brewing easier.

I'm not sure if over summer it was just recreational but it wasn't causing me any problems. Though trying to introduce it to a couple of people while drunk and stoned was a disaster, of course I could handle whatever amount I dished out but it made them sick. One also said they were tripping but I put down this to the mix with an enormous amount of weed. I don't care how much weed you've done in your life and think you know it like the back of your hand but if you mix it with something you haven't done then of course something different might happen. They were fine, they kept smoking weed to make themselves "better".

Fast forward to September when I was living in a shared house, I had taken a dose of pods and was half asleep on the sofa at about 2am. 2 guys just walked into our house, beat me up and robbed me. I was a shivering wreck for the rest of the year. I went without food so I could afford pods and just slept, laid there or watched TV in my room afraid to even face my house mates. One of my so called best friends had moved into town since then but she wanted nothing to do with it, she was even annoyed at me over the robbery.

I had a lucky break, before xmas a friend invited me over to keep her company for a week, then I was to go to my Mum's for xmas, then spend New Year in Germany. I decided to use all this change of scenery and people as a way to taper off and I knew I wasn't daring enough to take any pods to Germany (I'm only in the UK but it's still customs) plus my mates girlfriends Dad where I was saying was like cheif of police or something.

So I got myself prepared. I think I was on 4 tbps at this time, it varied. When at my friends house I found I didn't need a dose every day, it would stay in me for the 2nd day and I'd feel alright. I gradually tapered down and when at my Mum's prepared myself by stocking up with vitamins. Magnesium is a good ones especially, it does wonders for restless legs. I also bought cod liver oil, a load of B vits in one pill and I already had some zinc so I took that too as I heard its a good healer. I didn't just guess these, I did some reading.

By the time I was ready to go to Germany I was down to 2 teaspoons, and really the tapering never hurt me. As long as I had some in my system I felt alright. I felt fine for the first 2 nights in Germany but then had a lot of cold sweats and light sleep. And a lot of diarrhoea. It was the perfect time, I think a change of scenery helps (I was in another country ffs), not being bored, I had pretty much constant company and eating, they really fed me well over there.

I actually still had some pod material left when I came back but liked having it around to prove it was my choice I wasn't taking it. There were about 3 small doses there. Unfortunately I have taken these since but it wasn't straight away, it was trying to take the edge of a comedown or because I was depressed and didn't care. But I don't see it as a slip, I never took the habit back up. The best thing in Germany was I actually felt like a switch was fully turning on and I was no longer behind fog.

So, if it's possible for you to change your scenery or change ANY kind of normal routine you have I think that would help.

Now to go back and read everyone else has said better things and none of what I did would work for you

 

[mlk_2900]

Monstanoodle, thanks. Yeah that has pretty much been my experience with benzos as well. I have never had any type of addiction or dependence on them. I do always make sure to take a break though and have never had any sort of tolerance. In fact, before this taper in which I have occasionally used them I probably hadn't used one in 6 months or more.

Weevil, thanks so much for sharing your experience. Hearing stories such as yours are so encouraging. I can't change my scenery, unfortunately, but I am trying to go things that I haven't done in awhile such as catch up with old friends, etc. to create a pull back to my old way of life. It is amazing to look back to the before using and realize that the very life you were looking to escape is now the life you long for. That is how it is in my case anyway. Keeping busy makes a huge difference when trying to get clean. The less time to think about things the better off you are, as you related to when you went to Germany.


Just wanted to check in and update things on my end. Everything is going fairly well, down to around 2g twice a day now so I am approaching the home stretch I think. Still taking it slow and steady from here on out. I am exhausted today, but mainly from a very busy day at work, and feeling a bit of depression this evening but honestly I think that is stemming from life in general not coming off pods. Otherwise, things are going well and I am hanging in there. Planning to stay at this dose for another couple days and then drop again. Anytime I get inpatient I stop to think I am currently down to 20% of my starting dose, which is encouraging. For anyone out there who wants to get off these pods, I really recommend tapering. Develop a plan and stick to it, it will take the sting out of withdrawals and before you know it you will be drawing close to kicking this habit to the curb!

 

[attempt4]

how u doing now man?

 

[g0d00]

I know this post is 4 months old already, but i cant believe people's advice to this woman! everyone is telling her to either taper or go on suboxone...everyones telling her to USE MORE DRUGS! WTF, okay i fucked up with ppt for 6 months too, but last friday i just said fuck it! i took off work early friday afternoon and withdrew hard for 2 days. but come monday and i'm back to work! it's now the afternoon and i'm fine.

suboxone is a hole, dont fall in; jewish propoganda LOL

just be brave and determined goddamit!

 

[Starshowers]

mlk- I feel your pain. I'm in the same boat- ppt addict in secret (so can't ask for support) but I've been for about 5 years. My problem is I have too many responsibilities (work full tfoime and have a part time job) so it's hard for me to function if I'm not 100 percent. I might have to taper as well.

This thread is very helpful and it's encouraging knowning others have been through it.

WD for me is so god awful I'll do anything to avoid it. If I'm in full blown wd, I can't hide it but it mimicks the flu so well I just tell everyone that. Mild WD sucks too- the restless legs, body aches, anxiety and depression. It's so hard when I have tea, I just drink it.

The thing that I trouble dealing with is when I WD I sleep non stop. I know this isn't the best thing to do but I'm going to use amph to combat this. I believe I can taper if I use the amph to keep me up and going, lope to control digestion issues and benzos or kava for anxiety.

Good luck mlk, keep us posted.

Consider yourself lucky that you can sleep during opiate WD, this is very rare.

 

[Suboxone]

The Alprazolam (Xanax) will definitely be of some help. Taking that when you experience bad Anxiety or at night when you just can't sleep for shit would be the best route to go - but do watch out for gaining a tolerance and dependance to that.
Atleast you're getting that scripted

I just tapered off Subutex, I found that Lyrica (Pregabalin) and Neurontin (Gabapentin) together (or at the very least, just the Lyrica) relieve anxiety soooo much more than Xanax. I felt literally zero anxiety when I switched. I'd recommend to anyone going through withdrawal to take 300-500mg of Lyrica per day.