Opioids Is there a way to successfully taper from poppy pods?

[HamClamp]

I do have a kitchen scale, but it only weighs in ounces not grams. So I need to get one that will weigh in grams as well which I am finding a bit hard to find.Now about my dosage. I measured it out and weighed it a bit ago. I have been taking between 7-8 teaspoons each time. Lately (the past few days) it has been more like 8 teaspoons when I dosed, but I really believe 7 teaspoons is closer to what stabalizes me without being a bit high. So, 7 teapoons is around 2 ozs on my scale which is 5.66 grams. 7 1/2 teaspoons is 3 ozs which is 8.50 grams. I have dosed out the 7 1/2 teaspoons (8.50 grams) for the next few days, still twice a day. I am going to see if that stabilies me enough and then go from there. Hopefully by then I will have a scale that can measure grams so it will be easier to figure out.


Hamclamp, I love the example of a tapering schedule you posted...slow and easy!! I know you said you take the poppies twice a day as well. How are you planning on dealing with the second dose? I am a bit concerned if I wind down off the second dose and keep the first one the same and then wind down off of it, that is will take me forever!! Do you mind me asking how much your current dose is and how long it normally takes you to taper (since you said you have done it before)?

Jayjohnson, if for some reason the tapering down both doses doesn't work. I will try your plan of dosing more (but only once) and trying to schedule it to be in the middle of the two doses. I know the one dose should hold me, and it did night before last but just doesn't seem to be anymore. Part of it may be me just worrying about it, but I can tell it does truly run out as I do I have the enlarged pupils and other withdrawal symptoms.

If your scale is digital play with the buttons and you might find it has metric or "grams" mode. Most dgital scales do. Digital kitchen scales can be had in the US at Target, Walmart, Bed Bath and Beyond so you should be able to find one no problem. About 20 bucks tops.

Right now I am maintaining at 20g morning and 15-20g evening. You're probbly right about in the same ballpark I'm guessing.

I will begin by cutting out my evening dose leaving the morning the same. I can knock myself out with herbs at night but I've got to be able to function at work. Once I'm down to once a day I simply start cutting that one too. Yes- I taper sloooooowly. Every time I've rushed in the past I've blown it. EVERY time. There is no sense hurrying now. I hate pain. I'm a wimp- lets face it!

I haven't mapped it out but I'm guessing off the top of my head that it's gonna take about 3-4 weeks. Please note that I'm going to take 30% drops and will cut down to 10% drops for the last leg when I'm down to the 3g range. Slow and steady is the only way that works for me. I've tried it many times. The only times I've succeeded was exactly as I've explained. Your mileage may vary but this works for me.

If you'd like I'll calculate your entire taper out for you once you have weights for me to work with and once you decide what percentage you want to drop. I suggest that no matter the case you allow three days at each new dose to stabilise. Three days seems to be the magic number when dealing with opiates. My experience confirms this.

Let me know what you think and be sure and let me know your weight and I'll set it up for you no problem.

Give yourself a break regarding the recent fiasco! I've done that kind of stuff many times. We're all human and we all just want to be done so we tray all kinds of things. We learn and we move forward. Brush it off and stay positive. It took a long time to get addicted. It will take a long time to taper. So be it. You've got what it takes to make it. You really do!

Peace.

(Note- i just checked Target's website: They have bunch of kitchen scales available online. Also your local headshop or tobacco shop will have scales but you'll proably get the best deal at a department store. Are you in the US?)

 

[HamClamp]

MLK, I'm on board with helping however I can.
<outstanding advise snipped>

So lets forget the idea of dropping to one dose a day - that doesn't seem to be a useful idea for you right now. I'm curious what others would say about why one dose a day is best. For me it's just because pods have such a long half-life and stay in your system for so long. But I don't think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot by dosing twice a day and tapering both doses at the same time. Just taper both doses equally I would say, but only by like 5-8% every 3-4 days. Keep a journal of your dosing, keep notes to yourself about what your goals are in this, and positive feedback for yourself for those days when you aren't feeling so great. Hopefully those will be few and far between. As far as kratom and loperamide go, save those for the very end of the taper, or even the `jump off` point (when you stop taking the pods.) We don't want you switching addictions to kratom. (For me, kratom tolerance goes up so fast that getting hooked on it would require ridiculous amounts - so don't worry about that too much.)

<more great stuff snipped>

I don't see a need to cut down to once a day other than convenience and to break away from the routine.

Personally I DO cut it down but I've done it while dosing twice a day and it made no difference.

I wouldn't stress out over it whatsoever. Need to dose twice a day? Go for it. Taper two doses a day. You'll get to the same place. No worries!

_______________________

I agree: Don't bring Kratom into the equation at all at this point. You think pods are expensive? HA!

MLK- Please consider what I'm about to say. No offense intended as we're on the same team okay? But...

You seem to be complicating a pretty simple process here. Get all your helpers in stock, plan your taper, and commence tapering!

It's no big change. Same life as always. Business as usual. You're just going to eat a little less poppy each day until you don't eat them any more. Take helpers to treat whatever symptoms occurr. That's it!

You can second-guess yourself right into a state of anxiety. Take a deep breath, get all your ducks in a row, and lets get this show on the road!

Don't worry- you're NOT gonna have to go it alone. You've got one hell of a team backing you here. Take it easy, get yourself a scale, we'll lay out your plan, you bag it up and date 'em, and life rolls forward. As issues pop up you just post about it and we'll all figure it out okay? You've got an incredible group here so you're in good hands.

Okay?

Okay!

Relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx........



(and I'll try to follow my own advice in a couple days when I join you!

*Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath........*)

 

[ArtVandalay]

^

This thread has been very informative and calmed my nerves a lot. Just knowing fellow bluelighters have successfully tapered gives me hope. And today I only dosed twice (most Sundays it's breakfast, lunch and dinner), with half my usual dose. Surprisingly I feel fine- I had some digestive issues but that's it. I'm going to get me some lope and ride this taper train slowly.

My overwhelming fear of WD's is what makes my anxiety so bad (having a past anxiety disorder doesn't help). But I now realize it's do-able.

 

[HamClamp]

Hey Art!

I hear you loud and clear about the fear of w/d causing anxiety. Anxiety wipes me out , too, and turns me into a shaky mess, so you are definitely NOT alone in that regard.

Tapering CAN be done with minimal pain and sufferring. I've done it and I am going to do it again here in a couple days.

You did a "proof" yesterday by knocking out one dose and only dosing @ 50%. Too big of a step, I think, but it put your mind at ease and gave you hope so that's good news. I know for a fact that I can immediately handle a 50% drop with minimal discomfort. To play it sake I'm starting with 30% drops. As it gets down to the bitter end I'm gonna cut it down to 10%. Like the tortoise and the hare slow and steady wins the race.

********************

Loperamide can be had VERY cheap at Dollar stores and those big huge mega-marts. The generic or store-branded stuff is the same as the name-brand Immodium. Loperamide is loperamide and they all come in 2mg tablets.

There is a great thread by Bojangles in The Dark Side regarding his taper and he has the whole Lope thing figured out. If you need help finding it let me know and I'll post a link. It's a very inspirational thread and and not only does it have lots of good info re: lope it also has a happy ending. Who doesn't love a happy ending?

*********************

Re: Anxiety

I use various legal herbs to deal with whatever anxiety might arrise. You might want to look into that. Kava Kava extract, Passon Flower extract, Valerian, Lemon Balm, etc., are all fantastic for knocking anxiety out of the picture. Good for sleep too. I've also got Valium if I need it but I try to stay away from that stuff. It is a nice security blanket, though, and it comforts me just knowing it's there if I need it.

If you need help mapping out a reasonable taper plan let me know and I'll be more than happy to help you out. Just let me know your doses and we'll get it done.

***********************

MLK- how are you doing today? Taking those deeeeeep breaths?

Breathe deep and SMILE! It's gonna be allllllllright!

 

[ArtVandalay]

Yeah, cutting down half was prob too much- woke up in mild wd this morning- but I did need proof.

Yesterday I used a bit of amphetamine which I believe tricked my brain and body a bit. It was very effective (but I don't want to trade one addiction for another so I'm using that cautiously, but I have a lot of experience with it).

Kava is the best. I used to get pounds of it straight from Fiji from this Fijian woman (she got a kick out of a white boy liking the 'grog'- I think that's what she called it). Unfortunately, I don't have anymore and the tinctures never work for me. I should have more access to benzos soon thought.

Thanks HamClamp

 

[mlk_2900]

Hamclamp, I agree with you. I think I am taking a simple process and complicating it. I think I am dwelling on the whole matter and making it worse. I think mentally my mind is lagging behind with the whole addiction and is obsessing. Which is why I am taking a bit of a time-out. That combined with the fact that this weekend I have to be at my best, functioning at 100%. I do think that this current supply of poppies that I have is weaker than what I have been used to, so I don't think I have really been getting stable even at my full dose, so today I upped my dose a bit to try to stabilize. I guess it it totally possible to have a weaker batch, right? I sure hope I am not making it worse by doing that. I played with my kitchen scale and it doesn't have the ability to measure grams so I will go looking for one. I do live near a Target and Walmart, so I will check there first. I also need to get a new grinder and finish grinding my pods....

3-4 weeks for your taper, wow, that sounds wonderful. When I was looking at mine just trying to sketch it out a bit, it was looking more like 3 months!!! I was only doing 10 % drops though. Part of me wonders if that is just stretching out the misery, but well sadly I think I am like you and wimp out if its too much. I also think in my head if I can slowly drop down until October and can get the vicodin, than I will transfer ( I am admitting that it would be a transfer addiction) and taper off those. I guess I feel that way because I have tapered off those millions of times, it eases my mind a bit about the end. I will even admit, if I had access to enough of them, I would try to transfer now but I don't.



ArtVandalay, I am so glad this thread has given you hope!! Yeah watch out for the quick cutting out a dose tapers. I believe that is what messed me up. I went from positive to an up and down roller coaster this weekend trying to get back on track. The anxiety is my biggest problem as well, as you can see from this thread. I think I can handle the physical pain, but am unsure of the emotional pain. I have tried the Kava pills in the health food store and they did nothing for me. I think some true Kava might, but I have no idea where to get any of that either.

 

[ArtVandalay]

You could probably find good kava online but I wouldn't bother, it's not the best for WD, most likely you'll just feel off.

I feel just like you. And I'm such a baby when it comes to wd, it's rediculous. The reason I've been on it for so long (5 yrs) is I work two jobs, I hide it from family and gf, and I'm useless in WD. For me, when I'm in full on WD I sleep- most people have insomnia- but I get the worst fatigue- it's just horrible nightmare sleep- yuck! But this taper is going to work. I'm going to take it slow also.

 

[HamClamp]

Weak pods? The market is flooded with them right now and at triple the usual price! My last two boxes were weak as all hell. That was a big motivator to give this garbage up. I got one small order of really good ones and they will be gone tomorrow. I'll be using the weak ones for my taper. i've already figured out the eqivalant dose so i'm good to go on that front.

If you need to up your dose then up it! You've got to be stabilized if you want to succeed. Don't think so far ahead and set yourself up for a Vicoden jones. Lets just focus on getting stabilized and then comfortably knock that pod monkey off your back one step at a time. If you've kicked Vics then you can kick pods. Yes pods are little tougher but you're not dosing really huge so it's gonna be okay. The whole idea of a taper is to minimize pain/discomfort and be able to go about your day-to-day business. I've done this and I'm gonna do it again. My taper begins Wednesday- about two days from right now. I'll be grinding, weighing, bagging, and dating tomorrow so come Wednesday I get up in the morning and start on the journey to my new life.

As soon as you get your scale let me know your dosage and we'll get it laid out. I've found that a 30% drop, at least at the higher dosage, doesn't hurt at all and honestly is not uncomfortable at all so we'll start there. As things get down lower we'll drop back to 10% and take little bitty steps down to zero. Start telling yourself that zero is NOT a bad dose. Tell yourself that zero is the BEST dose. Zero=FREEDOM.

I will start my own taper thread as I feel like I've jumped on yours and I want to make sure that you have all the direct suport you need. There are some amazing people here that have given some fantastic advice and I want to make sure you get all the support you need.

This is NOT a big deal! This is not gonna be a walk in the park but it's NOT gonna be gut-wrenching sick either We're gonna work out as many of the bumps as we can and as things pop up we'll simply address them and move through them. This is NOT a battle: It is a journey to a better place.

We'll get there.

 

[Nib]

I tapered real slow from like 70g's a day, down to about 20g's or so over a month. Then i went to Suboxone, then to Kratom which I'm already addicted to again. I'm glad i'm not using pods right now cause yea, prices have went up 5x. It's crazy how much they cost now from my old vendor. Might as well buy dope.

 

[unsettled]

Well, I wish I would have read HamClamp's (great advice for pod tapering) post about a month ago, I was planning on tapering off slowly but due to my last shipment of pods being the weakest pods I've ever had I ended up tapering rather quickly and uncomfortably, I'm still not completely off of them but I'm down to approx. a tablespoon of weak pods every 24 hours and a good amount of loperamide. I'm pretty stabilized now but still a little edgy. I was using only one or two Jumbo Pods every 24 hours previously (swallowed grounds with grapefruit juice) but apparently they were much more potent than I thought. I mean if I added an extra pod every now and then I was high as a kite, higher than when I used to get IV morphine in the hospital after a car accident. They seem so innocent, but if you're using potent pods you will get HIGH! Not the easiest habit to quit to say the least.

I had no idea what I was getting into the first time I picked up the habit until I woke up in the middle of the night after skipping a dose after a few months of daily use soaked in sweat, heart racing, anxiety, nose running, restless and sore as hell. This was my first pod habit and once I realized the burden of the monkey I had adopted I quit almost cold turkey, I only had a few pods left and just made them last as long as possible, I felt like shit for a few days but it was bearable.

Anyway, like an idiot I went ahead and started using pods daily again about a year ago after a agonizing breakup. At my peak I was at about 10 pods or more a day with oxycodone and vicodin thrown in for a few of those months. After awhile I realized it was just too much effort since I wasn't getting high, just maintaining, and the prices sky rocketed while the potency dropped.

I had planned to taper with the weak pods, but I had no idea just how weak they were and I had a week that was really difficult, especially since I had to work the whole time. What worked for me was a ton of loperamide, approximately 3mgs of klonopin a day, and 2 10mg ambiens at night. Even with all those helper meds it was difficult, not unbearable, just really hard. I also used small amounts of dexedrine during the day to get through work. Just the other day I went to my psychiatrist because I know I'll need to get back on anti-depressants and she prescribed me effexor, it's the depression after the physical withdrawals are over that are the hardest for me.

I'm still on a minimal amount of pods a day, just enough to be functional, work has been going very well and this is no time to fuck things up, I have a couple days off at the end of this week and I'm just going to stop cold turkey with the pods, I'll keep using the loperamide, ambien, clonazepam and effexor. I'm not sure but I have a hunch that the loperamide is holding me better than the tablespoon of weak as hell pods I take once a day.

My only advice would be to try to get your dose to once a day, I was twice a day for the whole length of my habit but I got it down to once a day a month ago and that helped me a lot. Also any long acting benzo combined with loperamide can help a ton. I personally got scared after my first week and bought six 8mg suboxones just in case I needed them, hopefully I won't, but they've worked for me in the past when coming off a pill habit and I feel safer having them around.

You can do this without a lot of discomfort if you're smart and have a plan, I had a plan but the week pods threw it off, maybe it was a blessing in disguise though because my dose is almost nothing compared to what it used to be and I haven't had any kind of opiate buzz for a few weeks at least.

Sorry about the long post, I wish you the best of luck, I know it's tough, especially when no one knows about your habit and you are on your own (my predicament as well). You always have Bluelight though so you never need to feel alone, lots of people are getting off these devil pods right now.

 

[HamClamp]

Hey MLK-

How are you doing? Haven't heard from you in a day or so. I hope you'll check in with us.

****************

Unsettled- Thanks for posting your experience. Those weak pods sure were a shock to the system huh? It sounds like youre doing okay all things considered. Maybe taper that last tablespoon down rather than jumpigng stright off. Treat yourself gently.

*****************

Well I start my taper today. Everything is ground up and allotted. All I have to do now is take my doses and get this shit over with. First tapering dose going down the hatch with GFJ as soon as I close this post.

Here goes nothing....

<EDIT> I'm gonna start a thread and document my taper so as to not detract from MLK's thread here.

 

[mlk_2900]

Update on me...

Sorry I haven't been around and updating on here. I wish I could say things have been great, but really they haven't. I was unable to get stabilized no matter what the past few days. I was super anxious, paced the floors, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, it was terrible. I had no idea what to do which led to me becoming open with my mom and my husband about what was going on as I had no way to hide what I was going through. At first the reaction wasn't good, but they have come around and are now trying to help me and support me in anyway possible. So I guess in all something good came from all that.

As far as tapering, I haven't really yet. I did say I was taking this week to become stable and I literally haven't been stable until this afternoon. I don't know what I did different, but since my noon dose (which would normally be my morning dose...but its a long story why it wasn't in the morning) I have been stable at less than I was taking (with the weaker pods). Which is really weird, but boy am I glad. We were very close to canceling our event this weekend because there was no way I could have gone in the shape I was in. I just hope that this stabilization continues through then.

I am still planning on tapering, at least to a point. My husband doesn't want me going through this completely on my on, so I have been calling around to some clinics in the area to talk to them. I found one I really like about 45 minutes from here. I have insurance that should kick in Aug 15, so currently beginning next Monday I am going to start my taper plan and will keep at that through the 15th. After that point I am going to go to the doctor I spoke with and he told me he would prescribe me some medications to help with the withdrawal symptoms until enough time has passed that the pods are exiting my system. Then he will let me have some suboxone for a short, fast taper off to nothing. I really like this clinic and this doctor and he seems to be very willing to work with me and adapt to what I need and want. After that he would like me to do some addiction counseling, even if only once a month to help me not end up back here, which I happily embrace as I don't ever want to go through this again. I am glad to have caught it when I did!!!

So, that is what is going on with me. Now that it seems I am stable I will weigh out my dose soon and post here so I can get input on my tapering schedule.

Thanks all for your continued help and support and for checking in on me!!!!

Hamclamp, so today was day 1 of your taper? How did it go? I really hope it went well!!! Stay Strong!!!

 

[adamgreen]

Wow it sounds to me like things are going well - opening up about it and having a plan to get treatment is a huge step. I've been following the thread and just wanted to say it sounds like you've done some important steps to get started. I too am looking to get off pods and would love to find a way to get subs, but have no insurance and not sure how to get started. Did you openly tell the clinic what you were using, or just say opiates? I haven't told anyone close to me about my addiction and I'm hoping like everyone else in the same situation to get off of opiates for good while making it as painless and staying as functional as possible. Anyway, keep going and know your story is helping others that are trying to do the same thing.

 

[HamClamp]

Wow! That is some BIG news but it's all good news huh? Yep it sure is. I'm glad you've gotten stabilized as that is really important for a taper. I'm really glad to hear that you lined up some support.

Hang tough and focus on taking care of yourself and just get yourself dialed-in on your dose to avoid any freak-outs. It sounds like you're in a pretty good place so that's good.

Hang in there and keep us posted!

 

[ArtVandalay]

Hi all, I've been tapering for about two weeks now, got my dose down to half of what I was using before every day. I got some new pods and didn't realize how strong they were, now I'm high as hell, feeling great. Normally I'd be happy, but I don't want to fuck up my taper. Is this going to set me back to day one??

In a way it's good they're strong 'cause I can strech them out even further w/o having to re-up. Prices are rediculous right now.

 

[monstanoodle]

**Applauds**

Even though it may not feel like it, this is a really good start ^_^ So well done!
Just take it slow and keep on keeping on

 

[Levvytation]

Hi all, I've been tapering for about two weeks now, got my dose down to half of what I was using before every day. I got some new pods and didn't realize how strong they were, now I'm high as hell, feeling great. Normally I'd be happy, but I don't want to fuck up my taper. Is this going to set me back to day one??

In a way it's good they're strong 'cause I can strech them out even further w/o having to re-up. Prices are rediculous right now.

NO! 2 or 3 days setback. Grind your new pods into one batch of powder & reduce your dose accordingly. Might as well enjoy the high you've got on now though eh..

mlk_2900,
Sounds like good news to me. Support at home will help, especially now you're away from the 'closet addict'situation'....should work wonders for the anxiety. Good luck with the clinic.

 

[HamClamp]

Yo Art!

Don't stress it. Enjoy your groove today and simply adjust your dose down after homogenizing all your pods as Levvytation suggested above. This is a minor setback. A couple days- big deal...

If you were at X grams and the new pods are 30% stronger than cut your dose of the new pods by 30%, stabilize for a day or three, then just get right back on your taper as scheduled. You should be able to at least come close to guessing how much stronger they are, percentage-wise, and get yourself back on track with minimal difficulty.

Funny, in a sad way, but my first thought upon reading your post was "Damn- I wonder who's got the kickass pods that he got?" DON'T answer that! I don't want to know. Don't even hint! I just wanted to note how inrgrained that kind of thinking is in me. It was an automtic thought. Ain't that something? Old habits jeez...

 

[ArtVandalay]

^

Hahaa, yeah the habit runs deep into your brain.

Yeah, I grind all mine down and measure with a measuring cup. Good to hear it's only a few days setback! And yes, I'm enjoying it for now. It's nice to know the tapers working and my tolerance is dropping. I'm going to take this nice and slow before I even think of jumping off, I think it's the only way it'll work for me having been on it so long. Thanks for the advice and encouragement y'all!!

 

[JayJohnson]

MLK - I know how difficult it is to level with a significant other and family that you are in a bad place and need help, but I'm so happy to hear you've done it and it's over! You are in a much better place now, with their support, and with the plan to get a doctors assistance. Glad you have med insurance coming through soon! Counseling is a great idea, please remember to continue with it even after you've gotten free from the opiates. I *wish* I had med insurance right now and could afford to see a counselor! They can be a great ally!

Just in case you haven't, be sure to grind all your pods and mix them well so you dose consistently for the next weeks.

I'm curious also what the clinic/doctor you liked thought of your situation in regards to the opiate you are on. Strangely very few doctors (even those specializing in addiction treatment) know about pods. I want you to be able to confide in the doctor, but know that if he/she isn't familiar with pods that you might need to hold off on taking the suboxone for at least 48 to 72 hours from your last dose of pods. For now let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, you don't need to worry about that until mid-August, right? `Nuff said.

I'm glad you checked in to let us know how you are doing and hope you continue to!