Kratom Is there a way to determine threshold doses for 7-OHM with opioid history ?

[Juicewrldfan]

Basically, I have a high opiate tolerance so the recommended dosing from the manufacturer on 7-OHM will not work.

I was on suboxone for a few months. Been off it for theee weeks I think.

Anyway, is there like a formula for determining threshold effects approximately. What I was thinking is is there a way to do like a dosage calculator like they have for adhd meds that converts dosages into the other drug.

I was thinking if I could just use its binding information and determine approximately a closer accurate threshold dose say if I compared it to oxy where I know my dosage.

But my knowledge on biological and organic chemistry is very limited. Any ideas?

I know the usual rule of thumb is start low and go slow with any substance but these are extremely pricey. Like street prices and I don’t want to waste any.

Edit: so far 42 mg in one dose has been safe for me. So far take. 5 today and so far I’m safe but keep it n mind we are all different.

Edit: can confirm 84 are safe so far. Been some hours apart probably like 8 so since first the last dose of two 14s and now I took 3 14s and am safe feel fine definitely like tram but more sedating.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Calculate the morphine equivalent for 7-OH, it should be available in papers and off the top of my head its like 13x morphine but don't rely on that number I might be wrong and I don't have a paper on hand to reference. I'll update if I find a reference

Something to note is that efficacy is what matters here when calculating morphine equivalents. Efficacy can't be directly derived from affinity so don't rely on binding data

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Ohhh…thank you. Yeah it is 13x more potent than morphine but then I have to take 2-3 montys of subs daily into account. And subs are 20-40 times more potent? I get different information from different sources so not so sure on that one. I’m guessing the variation is to do with ROA. But are they talking of binding affinities?

In any event, I’m wondering if I just wasted all this money looking at that information.

So I’d probably need about 4x the amount of subs( daily dose) I took?

Is that how it works? Surely there is a formula?

Idk that would be 56mg. Kinda very high dose compared to what others have taken so that can’t be right. I must be wrong…not really trying to experiment with that large of a dose. Most I have heard anyone take at once is 28mg

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah that experimental data doesn't translate to real world dosing. While 7-OHM might have higher affinity than morphine for the MOR (mu opioid receptor), the extent to which it turns on (activates) the receptor is less than morphine.

From my experience, that 13x experimental affinity figure really doesn't mean much in practice since 15mg of 7-OHM feels nothing close to ~200mg of morphine in terms of strength/effect. In fact it's effect isn't reminiscent of morphine at all really. I'd say 15mg of 7-OHM feels like 40mg of O-desmethyltramadol.

But to answer your question, no there is no neat and clean formula to achieve what your are trying to do, especially since the effects of kratom alkaloids are so different from other opioids. If you are familiar with OPMS black capsules, 15mg of 7OHM feels like one of those in terms of strength, but cleaner feeling. 7OHM feels shorter lasting though, so given the price of the 7OHM tablets going around, they seem unsustainably expensive for most people if one has a high tolerance.

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Yeah that experimental data doesn't translate to real world dosing. While 7-OHM might have higher affinity than morphine for the MOR (mu opioid receptor), the extent to which it turns on (activates) the receptor is less than morphine.

From my experience, 13x experimental affinity certainly doesn't mean much since 15mg of 7-OHM feels nothing close to ~200mg of morphine in terms of strength/effect. In fact it's effect isn't reminiscent of morphine at all really. I'd say 15mg of 7-OHM feels like 40mg of O-desmethyltramadol.

But to answer your question, no there is no neat and clean formula to achieve what your are trying to do, especially since the effects of kratom alkaloids are so different from other opioids. If you are familiar with OPMS black capsules, 15mg of 7OHM feels like one of those in terms of strength, but cleaner feeling. 7OHM feels shorter lasting though, so given the price of the 7OHM tablets going around, they seem unsustainably expensive for most people if one has a high tolerance.

Yeah someone else as telling me that I would have to do experiments with cell lines and I am a layman to get the EC and then do something with logP. I’m not educated though so yeah idk wth they are talking about. I k ow what EC is but logP no idea.

Yeah. I went ahead and said fuck it and just took one on 4gs powder and it’s exactly how you describe. It’s kinda weak at 14mg for me but I definitely notice it. It’s exactly like taking tramadol. I used to dose crazy with trans though. I mean I’d take15 sometimes. Ridiculous. I didn’t know shit. Was young and dumb.

But I never had anything but the prodrug is the immediate release much different because faster onset?

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Check out this paper - synthesized mitragynine psuedindoxil . Whats the abbreviation for that?

It’s driving me nuts typing it out all the time on my phone lol.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.202303700

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Hard to say.

If you have concurrent tolerance to traditional opioids the 7-OH isn't going to hit that hard. When I was taking 7-OH, then took the laced fake pills, it heavily spiked my tolerance to the 7-OH pills to the point where I hardly even felt them.

 

[negrogesic]

Hard to say.

If you have concurrent tolerance to traditional opioids the 7-OH isn't going to hit that hard. When I was taking 7-OH, then took the laced fake pills, it heavily spiked my tolerance to the 7-OH pills to the point where I hardly even felt them.

Did the suspected laced pills feel longer or shorter lasting than original 7OHM pills?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Did the suspected laced pills feel longer or shorter lasting than original 7OHM pills?

Much, much longer.

The acute effects about 2x as long, and the after effects 4x as long.

I had been taking the 7-OH pretty much 24/7, every 5 hours, for weeks before that. It was pretty much always pressing on my receptors. The laced pills blew it out of the water. I still want to know what was in them. Maybe a 'zene idk. They were very strong if you took 2 or 3. Puked my brains out a few times, which hasn't happened to me since I was on H.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I think you can just get ED50 from lever press responses from morphine trained rats? I could be wrong tho

 

[Juicewrldfan]

I ended up taking one at first and I thought it was hitting but I took like 4 grana of powder with it that supposed to be really good powder.

I’m starting to think they suck and the buzz was from the powder. I took 2 more and can’t say I feel much. Only been 40 minutes tho

 

[Snafu in the Void]

They're way stronger than powder.

If you get any effect from powder, you should absolutely get an effect from the pills.

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Maybe they just hadn’t kicked in yet. I’m actually feeling kinda lit. Or like it’s climbing in effects or idk something is…I went a little wild today I guess ha…

All safe things though with minimal addiction risk for me…amanita panthers extract , blueberry t1bud ,

Well, I stopped writing this about an hour ago and just picked typing this out back up just now.

I will say that the effects are not long lasting at all though. Like an hour maybe for me. As nice tho. I’ll save the rest for new years tho then I’m cool on them probably until next year.

Don’t need an O habit.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I do recall that it sometimes took up to 90 min for me to really feel the pills, even if I chewed them up. Not sure why.

 

[dosesfromcinco]

The laced pills blew it out of the water. I still want to know what was in them. Maybe a 'zene idk.

Being in treatment, my doctor let me know there was Xylazene in my urine a couple of months ago when I had a relapse. About a week later I fell out after insufflating one pill, did the perky dance that you see zenes cause most people to do, but eventually the person that was with me got scared enough to call an ambulance which probably saved my life, because they held me at the hospital for a few hours but I never had access to my pants til they were getting ready to release me and discharged me from my room, I figured the cops who were searching me at the scene would have found them but they found the bills I used to snort it with and thought they hit the jackpot but there wasn't even enough residue for them to get a positive test result lmao.

But you know how it goes, I was ready to get high again baby. That hospital was boring and I was getting more sober by the minute, I'm pretty certain I was narcanned at the scene originally because I came to confused as fuck with a bunch of paramedics around me and felt like I only just blinked. So I went in the bathroom and this time, only did a half a pill to try and be safer. Literally 5 minutes before my ride got there to pick me up I fell out and stopped breathing on my own for over 5 minutes they said, had to breathe bag etc.. went from chillin in the lobby on my phone just vibin, didnt even feel high, to just out like a light. First and only real near death OD experience that I am aware of, I could just be a resilient fucker that's lived through those types of situations on my own somehow, I've def lost what seemed like larges amounts of time nodding and never really know what that entails I suppose. Def woke me up a lil bit on how recklessly I had started consuming what I KNEW to be fentanyl laced pills.

 

[Juicewrldfan]

I do recall that it sometimes took up to 90 min for me to really feel the pills, even if I chewed them up. Not sure why.

I’m pretty sure it’s because it converts into another stronger metabolite but idk for sure. I noticed that too. Thought I was tripping until you shared this

Mitagynine psuedindoxil.

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Being in treatment, my doctor let me know there was Xylazene in my urine a couple of months ago when I had a relapse. About a week later I fell out after insufflating one pill, did the perky dance that you see zenes cause most people to do, but eventually the person that was with me got scared enough to call an ambulance which probably saved my life, because they held me at the hospital for a few hours but I never had access to my pants til they were getting ready to release me and discharged me from my room, I figured the cops who were searching me at the scene would have found them but they found the bills I used to snort it with and thought they hit the jackpot but there wasn't even enough residue for them to get a positive test result lmao.

But you know how it goes, I was ready to get high again baby. That hospital was boring and I was getting more sober by the minute, I'm pretty certain I was narcanned at the scene originally because I came to confused as fuck with a bunch of paramedics around me and felt like I only just blinked. So I went in the bathroom and this time, only did a half a pill to try and be safer. Literally 5 minutes before my ride got there to pick me up I fell out and stopped breathing on my own for over 5 minutes they said, had to breathe bag etc.. went from chillin in the lobby on my phone just vibin, didnt even feel high, to just out like a light. First and only real near death OD experience that I am aware of, I could just be a resilient fucker that's lived through those types of situations on my own somehow, I've def lost what seemed like larges amounts of time nodding and never really know what that entails I suppose. Def woke me up a lil bit on how recklessly I had started consuming what I KNEW to be fentanyl laced pills.

Yeah man. Talk about lucky. I OD’d off my first small fentanyl binge since i quit like after my 6 time using it because the high sucked and I kept ODing. Well I got a little depressed earlier this year and was flirting with suicide and thought I’d buy 1 gram of fent just in case I wanted to go thru with it.

Well, I was addicted to heavy stims at the time and wanted to come down easier so decided to use the fent but I wasn’t trying to kill myself. I mean I was trim g to be as safe as possible by just taking tiny bumps and waiting before doing more until I got where I wanted cuz you just really don’t know the purity. Well this was fire. They even gave me 3 narcan with it and told me don’t do it by myself it’s fire.

Well should have listened but I don’t know anyone that I trust in that situation that I would want getting higb with. My wife would have killed me if I asked her to watch me while I did some fentanyl and call the squad on me to try to force me into treatment. I get it shit is scary stuff.

Well, u was always up all night on stims and would wait until my wife went to work in the morning to do the fent so she wouldn’t catch me. Well, this particular day I got impatient and went ahead and did a bump. If I would have waited 2 more minutes she would have been gone and I would have been dead. Thankfully she hadn’t left yet. She said she heard my body hit the ground from downstairs and found me turning blue, did CPR because she was in shock and didn’t think about the narcan sitting right above my head on the nightstand.

I came to at OSU Hospital East and they said OD’d and I went strait to the bathroom and pulled out my gram and…BOOM next thing I know im waking up in a different room than my patient room. Like 8-10 people I scrubs around me and honestly looked like a damn operating room.

Im guessing it’s a room they take people to intubate? I don’t tucking know.

Well one doctor was seemed pissed and she was hit too and was like “ Yo, how come you walked in the bathroom fine and were all blue when you came out”

I said idk…and while struggling to come up with an answer super doc saves the day. Another doctor speaks up and says that the narcan probably wore off before the fentanyl did that he took earlier…it happens…

And do you not know that I as discharged that night and went home with my nearly full baggie of fentanyl.

Wild. Surprised the cops didn’t find it. I mean it was in my damn wallet FFS. Sure did take my phone tho. Hate that annoying ass shit. Try to get me to be forced to come talk to you in order to get my phone back fuckinv asses. Trying to get me to snitch and shit…fucking not happening. Trick no good.

Anyhow,…that’s my story and my sticking to it. True story

Edit: Oh and they did take my clothes after the bathroom overdose in the hospital but lo and behold no one searched my wallet yet again. Like WTF you all ain’t even trying?

 

[dosesfromcinco]

I came to at OSU Hospital East and they said OD’d and I went strait to the bathroom and pulled out my gram and…BOOM next thing I know im waking up in a different room than my patient room. Like 8-10 people I scrubs around me and honestly looked like a damn operating room.

Im guessing it’s a room they take people to intubate? I don’t tucking know.

Well one doctor was seemed pissed and she was hit too and was like “ Yo, how come you walked in the bathroom fine and were all blue when you came out”

I said idk…and while struggling to come up with an answer super doc saves the day. Another doctor speaks up and says that the narcan probably wore off before the fentanyl did that he took earlier…it happens…

And do you not know that I as discharged that night and went home with my nearly full baggie of fentanyl.

Wild. Surprised the cops didn’t find it. I mean it was in my damn wallet FFS. Sure did take my phone tho. Hate that annoying ass shit. Try to get me to be forced to come talk to you in order to get my phone back fuckinv asses. Trying to get me to snitch and shit…fucking not happening. Trick no good.

Anyhow,…that’s my story and my sticking to it. True story

same exact thing for me, they had nurses and med students from every different floor crouded around me because they were about to tube me and i finally came back to

the doctor asked me the same exact question and i finally nodded when he asked me if i swallowed the rest of my stash earlier because i didnt want them to go looking for it.

I thankfully didn't have the police pressure me for anything, in fact the only time a police officer touched me was when i was still at home and they took the bills from me, and my phone was in the chair I was sat in before i got put on the stretcher at my house, they did a quick search at my house too and turned up nothing there thank god but didnt really have much I was worried about either, just never really know what kind of incriminating shit you might have lost or forgot about etc. crazy how different some jurisdictions act than others, and we are in the same state too lol. the cops at the hospital kept givin me the bombastic side eye though, wasn't quite sure if I was gonna even be free to go or not the whole time I was there but I wasn't handcuffed to the bed or anything so I felt somewhat confident.

just like your story though, I still had another 8 of these deadly fuckers in my pocket and it was up to my addict brain to now get through the rest of them without dying,

 

[Juicewrldfan]

same exact thing for me, they had nurses and med students from every different floor crouded around me because they were about to tube me and i finally came back to

the doctor asked me the same exact question and i finally nodded when he asked me if i swallowed the rest of my stash earlier because i didnt want them to go looking for it.

I thankfully didn't have the police pressure me for anything, in fact the only time a police officer touched me was when i was still at home and they took the bills from me, and my phone was in the chair I was sat in before i got put on the stretcher at my house, they did a quick search at my house too and turned up nothing there thank god but didnt really have much I was worried about either, just never really know what kind of incriminating shit you might have lost or forgot about etc. crazy how different some jurisdictions act than others, and we are in the same state too lol. the cops at the hospital kept givin me the bombastic side eye though, wasn't quite sure if I was gonna even be free to go or not the whole time I was there but I wasn't handcuffed to the bed or anything so I felt somewhat confident.

just like your story though, I still had another 8 of these deadly fuckers in my pocket and it was up to my addict brain to now get through the rest of them without dying,

Damn for real? First time I met a fellow blue lighter that lives in Ohio.

Yeah I live in Whitehall. Well Columbus but the police is Whitehall city. Weird how Columbus is set up cities within cities.
and this police department takes my damn phone every single time. It’s so damn annoying. Like the last thing u want to do is come see you after I get out the hospital dude.

Should t be allowed to hack my phone

 

[dosesfromcinco]

Damn for real? First time I met a fellow blue lighter that lives in Ohio.

Yeah I live in Whitehall. Well Columbus but the police is Whitehall city. Weird how Columbus is set up cities within cities.
and this police department takes my damn phone every single time. It’s so damn annoying. Like the last thing u want to do is come see you after I get out the hospital dude.

Should t be allowed to hack my phone

Yeah I'm up in Cleveland, used to bang around down in CBUS a lot and have hit a lot of shows down there and Legend Valley etc.

And yeah it's whack how they do that, it's one thing if you had died and they were obligated to find justice or something, but to just take advantage of the situation like that is just plain invasion of privacy