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is the ceiling dose of codeine for codeine or codeine phosphate

^ I can't speak for Seith, but I'm not dependent. I use once a week, and I know I should take a decent break to get my tolerance down but I just can't be bothered. :\

As far as I know, Codeine, unlike Pentazocine and buprenorphine, is a pure Agonist, so as long as our liver could produce the isoenzyme CYP 450 2D6, there is no ceiling effect. ( I read, Glutethimide, a sleeping agent,and Dexamethasone,a corticosteroid, actually the only 2 drugs that boost this CYP 450 2D6, making Codeine being metabolised into Morphine ). So , theoretically, if Codeine at any dose is taken with any of these 2 drugs, it will be all metabolised to Morphine.
Click to expand...

There are other drugs that induce CYP2D6. Phenobarbital is one. Chronic alcoholics also tend to have enlarged livers which produce more of the microsomal enzymes, a problem that has been recognized in medicine for years.

I imagine there would still be a limit to what can be metabolized by a certain enzyme; your liver needs to produce and release these enzymes and these drugs will only boost the levels to a certain extent.

I have some dexamethasone handy actually, I might try this out next weekend.

ETA: Well a lot of CYP charts and articles state that dexamethasone and phenobarb are inducers, but this abstract states that it is 'largely uninducible' by those 'prototypical' inducers. I'm gonna have to do a bit more research before I go necking dexamethasone apparently.
 
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slortaone said:
are alot of you guys reliant on codeine? i just ask because for alot of you, thats a shitload of codeine to come up with, especially with smaller boxes these days. i dont know how you guys do it.

id be careful getting your tolerance that high, but i suppose its better than going to a stronger opiate. stay safe guys.
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yeah ive been doin codeine to quite a bit lately. i started the happit again a few months ago. & u dont realize how long uve been taking it for untill u look back.

smetimes ive been taken it 3 days in a row. leave it 4 days. than get back into taking it again.

I think ive aquired a taste for the bitter taste of codeine. at first i found it disgusting & used to make me nausias but now i can sip it all down like a shot of burban.

but im going on a break for a while now. save some time & money. exercise instead.

btw its easy to obtain high amounts chemists own come in 40 packs for about $x = 400mg codeine & panadeine xtra 24 pack for about $xx = 360mg a good dose i think to get a little bit of a feeling but not the side effects. codeine i still consiter to be pretty weak drug and its certainly alot healthier than those who like to drink alot.

Im surprized ive been able to go to different pharamacys & they never ask for ID.
I think many pharmacists must no about cwe right? & sort of turn a blind eye to ppl who use it because its sort of a off-label pain management or ant-anxiety for some ppl. & codeine doesnt really cause any harm to society. doesnt cause behaviour problems like alcohol or maybe some stimulants and its fairly easy to quit. theres no serious w/d symptoms.

im not to sure about how bad codeine is for ya health but i got a blood test to see if my organs were all well & everything was fine so yeah.
 
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^ I just removed the prices comrade, I think most of us know how much it costs anyway. ;)

Which state do you live in? Here in QLD they usually get you to write down a name and address or take the ID, depends on the staff really.

As for pharmacists knowing about it; not many do from those I've talked to. They know that N+ used to be splittable, and some of them seem to think that a lot of codeine buyers are using it to cook up something else. One pharmacist I talked to seemed to have a vague idea of what a CWE was, but described it as scraping codeine off the top of a solution and said that it didn't work anymore.
 
yeah and some pharmacy employees have no idea,

this one time i got a box of codeine/apap pills, and the lady says to me, "what are they for" i said i have a headache, so she says "you realise you brought these a month ago and your headache can be a result from withdrawls"

so put simply this dumb bitch though i may have been withdrawing from a box of codeine pills i brought a month earlier, is it just me or is that some of the most retarded shit ever
 
Im from NSW Mr Blond.
yeah l like how hey say beware of drowsiness. the stuff probably aleves my depression a bit & gets me doin slight more work around the house & stuff.
I mean sometimes they put as low as 8mg is a tablet. i mean wtf is 8mg codeine gunna do.
why even put the codeine in the pack.
the apap is gunna be alot stronger than 8mg codeine for a headache

the use of opiates for serious pain is underdosed by doctors. whenever u have a minor injury here in aus & have some pain they consiter pandeine forte to be strong enough.
yet they sell alcohol & tobacco doesnt make sence.
They need hydrcodone in australia. & they need to realise the taking vocodin of percecet for a week isnt gunna turn ya into a heroin junkie half asleep drewl foaming from there months.
most of the otc meds are shit & dont help. cough mededine doesnt help with coughs. panadeine xtra strength which is for strong pain releive wouldnt help a tooth ache.
no wonder ppl turn to illegal drugs. & the problem is the illegal ones are always the strongest ones out of there drug class. heroin best pain killer. meth strongrst add med. e strongest AD.

the only drugs ive known from the pharacy that work when taken as proecribed is the sedating anthisthiamines. APAP is to lower fever but it can only help with mild headaches.

my point is ppl who suffer from strong pain, bad anxiety, depression, insomnia are more luckly to take illegal drugs where they would be better taken monitored pharms. here in aus its hard to get oxycodone even though taken a few endone which isnt that strong for example & some drs precribe 5mg diaz a day for anxiety. u gotta be kidding. ppll with sever anxiety would probably turn to alcohol. where a sufficiant dose of a benzos would be safer. in america i think its suppose to be easier to get sufficiant potency medication to help with ppls medical problems.
 
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Anon54 said:
I think ive aquired a taste for the bitter taste of codeine. at first i found it disgusting & used to make me nausias but now i can sip it all down like a shot of burban.
Click to expand...

I have also found this, which seems opposite to many peoples experiences. Most of the time I do CWE it tends to have a sweet aftertaste and I really like punching a few bongs with that taste still in my mouth.

BTW once I put a shot or two of Jack Daniels into my CWE before I drank ti and it tasted pretty fucking good ;) straight ofcourse because adding carbonated drinks to your CWE will make it fizz up hardcore.

Slortaone I am not dependant on codeine although the last few months I have been thrashing it a bit then abstaining in cycles, a couple of times I noted pretty significant depression for a few days after cessation when I have been on daily for a week or two and only had a few days off since my last week or two run before recommencing. I kind of assume this is a sign of mild as shit opioid dependence when I go hard on it but right now I haven't used codeine in a week or so anyway.
 
sorry i know this has been covered alot before, but for someone who doesn't seem to achieve much of the good effects from codeine at 400mg doses, how much DXM should i take when combining with around 150mg?
i'm also adding 1.8mg travacalm HO (hyoscine hydrobromide) which have found gives a K like trip when combined with codeine and some alcohol but im unsure how it would effect the two.

not really looking to get fucked up, just want to feel comfortable i guess lol
 
^ less is more when combining DXM with codeine. I think the general consensus is that you only want 10-20ml Robo DX otherwise the DXM will start to overpower any positive effects you're getting from the codeine.
 
I made a ~500mg CWE last night with a few "Pharmacist" branded (how generic can you get? ) and a few Codalgin fortes. I've had the codalgin fortes before and never noticed a terrible taste, but this CWE I had was ABSOLUTELY FOUL. I suspect it was the Pharmacist brand because I've never had it before. Has anyone else and if so noticed an unusually bad taste ?

I'm usually pretty good for ignoring bad tastes but I couldn't have more than half a mouthful of this stuff without gagging. It had an acrid taste the instant it hit the tongue...outrid. Even with 6 parts cordial and ~150ml of water it was unbearable.
 
+1 on the slamming it down like a shot....

I read somewhere if you dont ingest it all within 15mins it wont make you higher (kinda like lsd) but it was just on a forum somewhere so who knows....

Guess i just associate it with good times and always mix it with half cordial in a half sized glass :)
 
Mr Blonde said:
^ I can't speak for Seith, but I'm not dependent. I use once a week, and I know I should take a decent break to get my tolerance down but I just can't be bothered. :\



There are other drugs that induce CYP2D6. Phenobarbital is one. Chronic alcoholics also tend to have enlarged livers which produce more of the microsomal enzymes, a problem that has been recognized in medicine for years.

I imagine there would still be a limit to what can be metabolized by a certain enzyme; your liver needs to produce and release these enzymes and these drugs will only boost the levels to a certain extent.

I have some dexamethasone handy actually, I might try this out next weekend.

ETA: Well a lot of CYP charts and articles state that dexamethasone and phenobarb are inducers, but this abstract states that it is 'largely uninducible' by those 'prototypical' inducers. I'm gonna have to do a bit more research before I go necking dexamethasone apparently.
Click to expand...

I've actually searched through MIMS Annual, it is a reliable source of australian medicines, and on the front pages, there is list of All ( a - Z) meds ,( All meds in Australia, everything) being a "substrate", "inducer", or " inhibitor".

I still have the fotocopies of the 5 pages list of All meds listed in MIMS Annual 2009.
( As now, 2010, MIMS Annual is no longer available as a book, " a dictionary book like- very thick", it is available by subsription, or alternatively, I just go to the Bowen Library in Maroubra, they have it for free to use it as a reference. But I can't find that list which stated isoenzymes and all meds acting as a substrate/inducers/inhibitors anymore.. )
It is only in 2009 version.
Some other libraries don't have it online. Lucky I found this library, I can searched through meds completely, accurately from a reliable source.( MIMS Australia Annual)
 
I just reach home from library, now I'm looking at :
Fotocopy of MIMS Annual 2009 "Drug Interaction related to liver enzyme activity".

About Phenobarbitone, all it's stated,
At Cyp450 1A2 : inducer and substrate
At Cyp450 2C9: inducer
At Cyp450 2C19: inducer
At Cyp450 3A4: substrate and induces ( it's how Xanax and triazolobenzodiazepines being a substrate at this enzyme).

However it does nothing to CYP2D6.

It's found in MIMS 2009 Annual, page G-74. ( All meds are there,complete list. And I found only Dexamethasone and Gluthetimide is inducer of CYP2D6).

Maybe, it's worth reading, (no offence), I still have to do some research abt Phenobarbitone as an inducer. As with several anticonvulsants, carbamazepine is enzyme inducers, but does nothing to CYP2D6 as I read here now.
One more thing I miss, Phenytoin (dilantin) is an inducer at CYP4502D6.

So there are 3 meds as inducers at CYP4502D6: Dexamethasone,Phenytoin, Gluthetimide.

This will help convert Codeine into active metabolite( morphine).
 
Davevanza said:
I just reach home from library, now I'm looking at :
Fotocopy of MIMS Annual 2009 "Drug Interaction related to liver enzyme activity".

About Phenobarbitone, all it's stated,
At Cyp450 1A2 : inducer and substrate
At Cyp450 2C9: inducer
At Cyp450 2C19: inducer
At Cyp450 3A4: substrate and induces ( it's how Xanax and triazolobenzodiazepines being a substrate at this enzyme).

However it does nothing to CYP2D6.

It's found in MIMS 2009 Annual, page G-74. ( All meds are there,complete list. And I found only Dexamethasone and Gluthetimide is inducer of CYP2D6).

Maybe, it's worth reading, (no offence), I still have to do some research abt Phenobarbitone as an inducer. As with several anticonvulsants, carbamazepine is enzyme inducers, but does nothing to CYP2D6 as I read here now.
One more thing I miss, Phenytoin (dilantin) is an inducer at CYP4502D6.

So there are 3 meds as inducers at CYP4502D6: Dexamethasone,Phenytoin, Gluthetimide.

This will help convert Codeine into active metabolite( morphine).
Click to expand...

for all of us green lighters out there,

what kind of medications contain Dexamethasone,Phenytoin, Gluthetimide. .....Are they a controlled substance or OTC?

Also when and how much should the said meds be taken b4 the initial codeine dose, or shortly after?
 
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Both Dilantin ( Phenytoin) 100mg and Dexamethasone are S4 meds. Both are non-addictive, not controlled meds.
Dilantin is used as an anticonvulsant, but as with many anticonvulsants which has "mood stabiling effect", Dilantin unfortunately is used less for this purpose. ( In Wiki, it is stated bcoz of the funding for research to Parke Davis co. was stopped back in past years).
Dexamethasone is a corticosteroid, used for inflammation. ( It has a similar indication as NSAIDS Ibuprofen, Napoxen, Diclofenac, etc). If suffering from joint pain, associated with inflammation, usually GP gives this to his patient, however NSAIDS are being used more as they are sold OTC , like Nurofen, Voltaren, Naprogesic, etc.

I take Dilantin early in the morning, both with codeine phosphate. It works for me. Providing Analgesia. As for Gluthetimide, it is a sleeping agent, used in the States, I think it is a controlled substance there.
Dilantin has an antianxiety effect I notice, as it stabilised the "hyper excited electrical conduct" in the brain. And it is non sedating, unlike other anticonvulsant. In fact, it is in the book Smart Drugs 1 by Dean Ward and Morgenthaler, Dilantin is used as a smart agent, usually by students, just before facing an exams. As during the exams, we feel a bit nervous, tense, think too much, leading to "blank focus", Dilantin, I noticed, helps a lot with this to think clearly and focus.

And it also stabilised heart rhythm as Wiki stated. ( when I drink too much coffee, I notice, arrhythmias, just by taking 1 Dilantin, in 1 hour, my heart rhythm comes back normal. it is actually a very helpful meds , as for me.)

So I suggest take Dilantin at the same time with Codeine, I notice it better than separating the two doses.
 
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