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Is pain stronger than pleasure?

cowardescent

Bluelighter
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Jun 29, 2017
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401
I've read the 'Asymmetry Argument' of antinatalists and it seems to make sense. It says that physical and emotional pain, is generally felt more intensely than any pleasure. The pain of breaking a bone, acid thrown in face, being tortured, being raped, burned alive is more 'badder' than the pleasure of sex, good food, heroin/ecstasy/coke high can ever be. Science has even proven that emotional pain lasts 200x longer than physical one.

Evolutionarily, it makes sense. Good things are meant to motivate us while bad things can kill us so our bodies and brains have evolved pain mechanisms to be more intense than pleasure mechanisms.

Do you think this is true in your life?
 
I have suffered very much more than most in my life. To quantify it, theres an ACE score that measures the most serious adverse childhood events on a scale of zero to ten. Most people have an ACE score of 0 or 1, and the "worst category" is people with 4 and up. I had 7, and the things polled weren't even the half of just how bad it was. I was a chemistry kid so at age 13 I synthed a lethal portion of potassium cyanide and kept it in a sealed lab tube by my bed. There were mornings where I'd sit with the thing in my hand, 13 years old, wondering whether to ingest the poison and go back to sleep, or take just one more day of this atrocity. I chose life, until the day came I disposed of the poison.

I suffered a LOT. Not going into it too much but more than most.

I was traumatized into a parody of a human being, incredibly function impaired.

What I did: I took entheogens, I got a bad trip where I relived all the horrors and reintegrated them, then let it settle in my life, dose again, horrif bad trip again, relive and reintegrate, and so on and on for.. Guys.. 25 years.

Over those 25 years the "bad"of the bad trips became decreasingly bad. With it, my functioning in life kept improving dramatically. As a metaphor, I was basically giving myself a pain tolerance by eating hot pepper over and over, but then the pain was psychologic and the peppers were entheogens.

The standard Grofian sequence occurred (see Stanislav Grof, LSD Psychotherapy) where i started processing traumas that were at a younger and younger age, until I reached the perinatal stage and processed the birth trauma, then a series of devastating Ego Death experiences happened that each were a system reboot without the traumatic material, and after that, finally, I moved into the transpersonal realm as one of the very few who got there.

Pain is horrible, especially psychological anguish, but I am living proof that it can be overcome and that entheogens can help you do that.

I'm a bonsai. A big tree pruned/tortured into a miniature shape by the hardships of life, but in being that I have ten times the spirit the big tree would have ever had.

Pain and suffering is instrumental in character building. You need it. People who went through a lot are usually more profound and empathic than those for whom life was a foam ball box of awesome.

Its easier to impress someone negatively than positively, and this is why we must develop our technologies until we either can rewire our organism or, better till, carry over into completely redesigned and better-than-the-real-thing synthetic bodies.

The human body/mind as it is now is more torture chamber than wellness spa - this is result of evolution and we must strive to transcend it.
 
I'm pretty immune to pain, but I've felt it. Like I got an infection last year and I had to be hospitalized because I couldn't walk on one leg. I think pain is more prevalent than pleasure because pleasure or bliss is special. It involves more than just feeling, but also associates certain memories and ties them together with subjectively good experiences

I know this because as I get older (I'm only 37, but yeah) I notice that I don't associate good feelings/pleasure with people I've just met and more and more I just want to be with people I know or have known my entire life, like family members etc. Of course this is just me, but it's a strong feeling and I thought I'd mention it

I think being in pain is a sign that there's an imbalance, but you know a lot of people are always in pain. Luckily I'm not one of those people and I don't even get sick. Last time I got sick I wasn't even an adult, more like 7 years old
 
Pain is simply your body trying very hard to communicate with you. Like a small riot in Pittsburg. If you stop what you are doing and take time to consider the pain and what your body needs your attention for, you'll find pain is a gift.

Pleasure is a carrot to keep us reproducing but pain keeps us alive, focuses our attention and when we don't deal with the cause of the pain we will suffer with pain as a symptom.

I don't have a ruled measure for my pain but Asantes post is highly relatable. This summer I found a new level of meditation during pain so intense I was drifting out of consciousness. It forced me to reconnect consciously with my bodily functions and begin to pay attention like a child relearning how to hold a pencil. When I pay attention to what I'm doing with my body I can minimize or prevent pain that before was like a migraine in its arrival.
 
Emotional pain lasting so much longer. People truly discount the effects of that I’ve noticed in my life. These are people who posture the boot straps mentality, get over it, cheer up, just stop being this or that way, etc.

I asked someone once why he wouldn’t ever berate a dog for being affected later in life because he was kicked as a puppy but would go on and on about a girl who’d been through a lot of shit in her life. People can think these things through he said, or something to the effect of.

So can dogs dude. Inherent to their kicked puppy behavior being a learned and adaptive (though maladaptive) behavior they also thought it through. Same as a dog we will go through all kinds of changes in mindset and behavior as we grow to these painful situations. We reflexively avoid pain as nearly the exclusive drive in life really. Nearly Everything we do is typically making us at least less uncomfortable in some way or it’s meant to be that way at least.

I don’t buy this bullshit people throw around about others pain.

Little off topic but hey.
 
I've read the 'Asymmetry Argument' of antinatalists and it seems to make sense. It says that physical and emotional pain, is generally felt more intensely than any pleasure. The pain of breaking a bone, acid thrown in face, being tortured, being raped, burned alive is more 'badder' than the pleasure of sex, good food, heroin/ecstasy/coke high can ever be. Science has even proven that emotional pain lasts 200x longer than physical one.

Evolutionarily, it makes sense. Good things are meant to motivate us while bad things can kill us so our bodies and brains have evolved pain mechanisms to be more intense than pleasure mechanisms.

Do you think this is true in your life?

In our dualistic universe, the Yin and Yang of pleasure/pain, is always in flux. It tries to maintain it's complimentary balance.

Since the final product of both pain and pleasure seems to be us crying at both the pleasure and the pain, I would put them close to equal in strength. They both bring us to our knees. Trust me on this.

Pleasure, of course, is more desirable to most of us.

Pain, not so much. Just enough to compliment the joy.


Regards
DL
 
Pain can last a long time, but I see it as being there for a learning experience so its not all bad, for me when I feel emotional pleasure intensely, even for short periods it makes all the suffering worth it, especially since the suffering is not pointless. Its almost like its there to make the good truly great
 
I've read the 'Asymmetry Argument' of antinatalists and it seems to make sense. It says that physical and emotional pain, is generally felt more intensely than any pleasure. The pain of breaking a bone, acid thrown in face, being tortured, being raped, burned alive is more 'badder' than the pleasure of sex, good food, heroin/ecstasy/coke high can ever be. Science has even proven that emotional pain lasts 200x longer than physical one.

Evolutionarily, it makes sense. Good things are meant to motivate us while bad things can kill us so our bodies and brains have evolved pain mechanisms to be more intense than pleasure mechanisms.

Do you think this is true in your life?

Interesting topic...

Yes I agree pain is more potent than pleasure. It has traumatized me into becoming a different kind of human being. Pain is also more useful for human programming. You can't break someone with pleasure but you can with pain.

However, I'd wager that there is substantial cross over between the two. For example, you can use pleasure and euphoria in traumatic release work, which is the whole premise behind MDMA therapy. Pleasure can be used to positively disrupt a pain-based memory.

Pleasure and pain erase people though. An excess of either disrupts identity.
 
Sensual pleasures are stressful, Eraka. Sensual pleasures aren't ease. Whoever loves sensual pleasures
loves stress, Eraka.
Whoever doesn't, doesn't love stress.

this is the most revolutionary idea ever and I hope it clicks with you, it comes from the mouth of Gotama Buddah, this is what is called the damma--meaning, the nature of reality--its not an idea created by mind, its something akin to science, its concrete philosophy not based on speculation but factual common sense, if you think about it, youll see it applies to everything.

The dhamma states; PLEASURE IS PAIN.

they are the same thing, they are dependant on the same thing, sense perceptions; touch, smell, taste, hearing, sight.

true pleasure is not related to the senses. its truly revolutionary, and not for us mere mortals who dont practice restraint; for us, we cant experience because we cling to sense pleasures

but its true. its rationally undeniable, philosophically sane--leaving no stone unturned. weither we can live up to this and apply it, doesnt affect that its the truth
 
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I think pleasure is impossible to define, unlike pain which is easy to define even if you're talking about emotional pain. Describing it evokes a specific image to another person, but if you try to describe how much pleasure you get from something it's hard to figure out what the speaker is talking about unless you have a pretext

I'd agree with the idea that pleasure is a sort of transcendental experience. I think I've only ever experienced it by consciously altering my state of mind, and then only a handful of times. I don't experience it at all in everyday life. That's hard for me to imagine because I need to get away from myself to feel good. I think it's because the outside world just makes me tired and heavy. But I suppose I can accept that. It's just odd to me how something like sex or another physical activity could directly cause pleasure for somebody. I actually tend to associate sex with pain even if it isn't painful because it can be tiresome and uncomfortable
 
I need to get away from myself to feel good.

I have the opposite situation.

I have to get into myself to feel the best. Gnosis will do that. It increases love via being universalist and I like to remind myself of love when I have to deal with so many religious who love to hate.

Regards
DL
 
Pain is simply your body trying very hard to communicate with you. Like a small riot in Pittsburg. If you stop what you are doing and take time to consider the pain and what your body needs your attention for, you'll find pain is a gift.

Pleasure is a carrot to keep us reproducing but pain keeps us alive, focuses our attention and when we don't deal with the cause of the pain we will suffer with pain as a symptom.

This!!!!!

I personally try to take a nonedualism view upon things like pain for example.
The moment you accept it & ride it the brain accepts this & it changes.
 
Pain has changed my personality. Pleasure has not. I take from my own experience that pain is much stronger than pleasure.
 
Pain is a signal yes but sometimes the signal breaks, and you're stuck with intense pain till the end of your life with no cure. Some types of pain cannot be avoided and will not stop.
 
Sometimes you don't know you're in pain because it never goes away but you might realize it if it suddenly goes away and you can think clearly without getting tired

I'm skeptical that pleasure could make somebody forget what they're doing, superficially yes but not totally. Interesting subject
 
I see pain and discomfort as the growing forces of nature, they push us in the direction we need to go. Pleasure is sort of like the release we need to keep going and what allows us to deal with the pain, look past it towards the future pleasure.

Both are necessary, can you imagine your life without either growth or relief?

I also think if you try to eliminate one from your life you will be eliminating the other
 
I see pain and discomfort as the growing forces of nature, they push us in the direction we need to go. Pleasure is sort of like the release we need to keep going and what allows us to deal with the pain, look past it towards the future pleasure.

Both are necessary, can you imagine your life without either growth or relief?

I also think if you try to eliminate one from your life you will be eliminating the other
I’m in pain from the moment my eyes open until I fade off to sleep.
There’s no growth here. Possibly regression but definitely no growth.
 
I’m in pain from the moment my eyes open until I fade off to sleep.
There’s no growth here. Possibly regression but definitely no growth.
What kind of pain? If it does ever fade my bet is you will end up being able to say you learned from it, even if it doesn't feel like it now
 
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