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Is mdma more neurotoxic than amphetamine?

do you have any references to that because it according to my pharm texts thats simply not true at all, unless you compare daily meth use with once a month mdma use
 
From what I have read about meth and beeen told by numerous people who use it and whos friends use it, is that is will definatly fuck you up eventually.

amphetamine Im not so sure on, Ive tried breifly to look it up but everything seems to discuss meth specifically. Anyone got a link for me?
 
Morpher said:
From what I have read about meth and beeen told by numerous people who use it and whos friends use it, is that is will definatly fuck you up eventually.
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Sounds very scientific :p
 
I'm thinking we probably won't be able to generalize in this way from the animal studies, but are we comparing a single, sensible dose of d-amp (like 20 to 25 mg) to a single, sensible dose of MDMA (90 to 110 mg)? It wouldn't be fair, really, to look at the effects of getting spun as fuck for days.

ebola
 
theres 50 years of research on amphetamines being very safe for long term use in low doses (like add doses) with meth being the safest but theres a lack of believable evidence on mdma, most of it is so exaggerated its hard to tell whats true, on the dose in the post above that much d,amp should have no toxicity with the mdma possiby being slightly toxic but no long term effects with either, however from personal experience heavy mdma use causes long tem damage(not forever damage but long lasting, like a year or two), I had mild seizures when I would try to fall asleep, likened it to being "stuck", the would gradually increase in severity over the course of couple of months until they got unbearable, then they would completely stop for 3 to 6 months, then slowly start again, I havent felt any for at least 2 years now but its been 3 1/2 to 4 years since I was a heavy wigger (about 20 pills every other weekend) for over 10 years, as for personal exp with meth, did buccu meth(1-4 grams a day) for a year every single day unless I was asleep for three days, quit and felt slightly off, kinda like I was still in that weird tweaker world if you know what I mean, for about six months, 3 months of chronic fatigue, and watching over my shoulder, then 6 months of totally normal myself, started using on the one year anniversery again so cant comment past a year, have talked with several others about the mdma seizures and they seem quite common for a lot of long term users my age
 
I think meth does in fact have the least side effects of any other amphetamine-like drug, but it also causes more neurotoxicity (at low doses, it is hardly neurotoxic at all though)...

Desoxyn (D-methamphetamine) is the safest drug for patients suffering from ADHD. It is rarely prescribed though because of all the bad rap that meth has gotton lately.



Another thing is to add a NMDA Antagonist to the meth... This will reduce neurotoxicity
 
I can attest that desoxyn has significantly fewer side effects than dexedrine, focalin, ritalin or adderall, having been prescribed each for at least a couple months each. That said, the side effects were still unpleasant despite the fact that I was only taking 2.5mg/day. My current regimin is NOTHING, but I got a bottle of 2.5mg focalin in case of emergency.

I would be very curious about this though, because I did my own research before taking any stimulants for my ADD, and learned that low-dose amphetamines are thought to be neurotoxic entirely through oxidative stress. Thus, I took ~300mg of R-ALA, 200mcg of selenium, 500mg of Vitamin C, 400IU of Vitamin E, 25mg of Zinc, 50mg of Pyridoxamine (Vitamin B6) and a multivitamin to alleviate this, in hopes that my brain would be spared.

What research have YOU been reading FairNymph? (I'm genuinely curious - do you have any links? I don't mean to sound like I doubt you, I just thought this would be a funny way to phrase my question!)
 
fairnymph said:
Meth the safest? What research have YOU been reading? *shakes head*
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hmmmm, heres the ones directly in front of me, textbook of organic and pharmaceutical chemistry 5th ed., PDR2005(and not that $10 pdr bullshit you find in walgreens), internet


as for individual studies I have never looked at any, I only read the cummalative texts that refer to the results of years of studies, desoxyn is 5mg/pill, about the eqaivalent of 7 or 8 mg d-amp with double the half life and half the side effects, my biggest plus for desoxyn is the long effects which allow a slow come down over 4 to 6 hours, almost impossible to notice for the user, while amp and d-amp only last about 4 hours with a quicker crash, leading to a more depressed feeling and somewhat "coked out" feeling afterwards, which IMHO sucks like dingleberry during a rimjob
 
bottom line...IMHO....meth and amp should not be compared to mdxx, the reasoning behind this is that even though they are all amphetamines, the way they work in the brain, the way they are used, the way they are abused, and how often they are used is so different that there really isnt a reason to compare them, its the difference between alcohol and antibiotics(ok thats a little exaggerated), they both start with a so lets compare them, but its night and day to say the least, meth and amp could be compared with other daily use drugs like coke, while mdma would be better pitted against mescalin, lsd, or other party drugs that are rarely used on a daily basis
 
I agree that meth has fewer side effects...but it is definitely more neurotoxic.

But yes, it's hard to compare MDMA to amphetamines as they are used in different manners....nonetheless some facts remain.
 
fairnymph said:
I agree that meth has fewer side effects...but it is definitely more neurotoxic.

But yes, it's hard to compare MDMA to amphetamines as they are used in different manners....nonetheless some facts remain.
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There are a ton of different ways to reduce (if done right, almost eliminate) neurotoxicity from meth useage.


Just something to think about when bashing meth use, even though i don't think it is a particularily GREAT drug, but it is a fun drug and can be used with minimal negative effects
 
Am I going to have to institute a rule saying "No discounting studies just because they are funded by the government". Who do you think the studies your text book cited Twacked out, are funded by? Either the gov or the pharmacuetical industry, and I'd trust the government funded before I trust in-house pharm research. I'm funded in part by a government, but they've never said shit to me about my results, and they don't give a shit either, so long as I complete the research that I said I was going to do in my grant proposal.

Still, meth is patently more neurotoxic than MDMA, if produces neurotoxicity in animals at 10x less a dose that MDMA, it is pharmacologically active at 10x less a dose and you can show actual organic lessions in meth users (though theres no proof this is actually meth related - correlation not causation), thats something no one has ever claimed to show for MDMA users.
 
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