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Is it STILL ridiculous to argue that Kobe . . .

I'll write more later, but I think a couple major reasons the NBA is so uninteresting today is 1. there are very few really compelling personalities; and 2. because New York has been so bad for so long the NBA expanded the playoffs so that damn near half the NBA is in the fifteen month long playoffs. I think it would really help, from a fan's standpoint, to shorten the season (or at least shrink the number of teams that can make it into the playoffs).

I do agree with you that the "illusion" that one man can do it all (although I think Jordan realized better, and consequently won, later in his career) and more specifically, the individualization of the NBA has led to professional basketball being sub-par. From the camera angles to the no-zone defense, professional basketball isn't real basketball. However, Kobe is truly MJ's protege in that department, more so now that he is on a shitty team.

As far as winning, Kobe was in the perfect position before. Let's see him win with a team in which he has to be a leader. When the Bulls were winning, they were winning with help from others but because of Jordan. Watching those series', he often willed his teams to victory. I have seen moments of that from Kobe but nothing on that level. Granted, he's still young.
 
Let's not lose focus on the real issue here.

The Lakers are undefeated when Kobe scores 80 or more points
 
WacoWas AnAccident said:

The Lakers are undefeated when Kobe scores 80 or more points
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Not to mention, they are undefeated when they outscore their opponents.

posner said:

From the camera angles to the no-zone defense . . . professional basketball isn't real basketball.
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Perhaps you just stopped watching when MJ retired . . . you know, the time he did it willingly.

*****

All this talk about "let's see what Kobe can do when he's the leader" is truly hilarious.

At the season's midpoint, the Lakers have the eleventh best record out of the league's thirty teams (and actually have the tenth best record if you count only the games Kobe's played in) . . .

. . . with Chris Mihm and Smush Parker STARTING at the two most important positions!

Without exaggeration, ten of the Lakers' twelve players would struggle to get off the bench prior to garbage time for virtually any other contender.

Do you honestly believe that a hypothetical team consisting of a 27 year-old Michael Jordan, Lamar Odom, and ten borderline-CBA players would be doing better than the eleventh best record out thirty teams at this point?

Because if you do, then you might want to look up the Bulls' records in Jordan's first five seasons (you know . . . the seasons in which he DIDN'T have a future Hall Of Famer IN HIS PRIME *AND* other talented players on his team).

Just as we laugh at our grandparents when they insist that "the good old days" with no television, limited transportation, no internet, no birth control, rampant racism and rampant sexism were superior to today . . .

. . . I laugh at all of the millions of nostalgic fans who have allowed their sentimental childhood memories and catchy Nike commercials to delude them into buying into the preposterous, albeit poetic, idea that Michael Jordan was some sort of God whom nobody will ever surpass.

Was he great?

Of course.

The greatest of all time up to that point?

No doubt.

But human beings evolve.

For a multitude of reasons, athletes keep getting better and better.

At one point, Oscar Robertson and Elgin Baylor were the greatest non-centers of all time.

Then along came Julius Erving who "revolutionized" the game.

Less than a decade after that, Magic and Larry re-revolutionized it.

And just a few years later, your basketball Zeus, Mr. Jordan, elevated the game to heights it had never seen before.

Grandpa . . . meet Kobe Bryant.
 
Personally, I'm looking toward the future to see what the love child of Kobe and Elle Elle will bring to the game.
 
L O V E L I F E said:
Grandpa . . . meet Kobe Bryant.
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I'm still not sure I saw a reason why Kobe is "the best ever".

I still contend that if it is an 80 point game against a shitty team in a meaningless stretch of the regular season that put you over the top, you need to re-evaluate your criteria.
 
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I have never stated that I thought Kobe was the greatest player ever.

Rather, I have suggested that in my opinion, he is well on his way.

When looking at a combination of individual statistics (accounting for the NBA being considerably lower scoring in the 2000's than in the 1980's), impact on team success (accounting for the relative quality of teammates, of course), and simply observing how impressive each of them has been in the game's most important facets (shooting, driving, passing, rebounding, defense, athletic ability, determination, clutchness, etc.), there are reasonable arguments to be made on either side as to who was the better player from ages 18 through 27.

I guess my main point is this:

Just as there were many fans who, in their rush to anoint the next Great One, foolishly dubbed Penny, Grant Hill, Vince Carter, T-Mac (and others I'm probably forgetting) "The Next Jordan" based on lots of hype and very little evidence, there are, are in my opinion, just as many fans, who are now allowing their loyal devotion to Michael Jordan and/or their subjective dislike for Kobe Bryant as a person, to cloud their judgment so that they cannot objectively entertain the mere idea that Kobe MIGHT be better.
 
Finder said:

Personally, I'm looking toward the future to see what the love child of Kobe and Elle Elle will bring to the game.
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Dude, I haven't been raped like that in months!
 
Charlie Brown said:
Kobe Bryant - 81 points
Assists - 2

MJ - 30 points
Assists - 10
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Actually, I'm pretty sure that their respective performances last Sunday evening were as follows:


Kobe Bryant:

Points: 81

Assists: 2


Michael Jordan:

His Hand: 19

Dealer's Hand: 21
 
Charlie Brown said:
Kobe Bryant - 81 points
Assists - 2

MJ - 30 points
Assists - 10
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Jordan only averaged about 5.3 assists per game over his career, while Kobe is currently around 4.3, and it is worth noting that Kobe Bryant only started 7 or 8 games in his first 2 seasons so Jordan was getting much more playing time right off the bat. Although the year Jordan averaged 32.5 points, 8 rebounds and 8 assists is pretty fucking impressive, a stat line you'll probably see somewhere down the line from Lebron James, and probably more than once.
 
Kobe is a misfit - everybody is gunning for him

MJ - everybody is rooting for him...

Both freakin awesome players...hard to say who would win in a one on one...my bet Jordan !
 
Their will be only one. greatest NBA player of all time, and that is none other than "Air" Michael Jordan.
 
L O V E L I F E said:

I guess my main point is this:

Just as there were many fans who, in their rush to anoint the next Great One, foolishly dubbed Penny, Grant Hill, Vince Carter, T-Mac (and others I'm probably forgetting) "The Next Jordan" based on lots of hype and very little evidence, there are, are in my opinion, just as many fans, who are now allowing their loyal devotion to Michael Jordan and/or their subjective dislike for Kobe Bryant as a person, to cloud their judgment so that they cannot objectively entertain the mere idea that Kobe MIGHT be better.
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smotpoker said:

Their will be only one. greatest NBA player of all time, and that is none other than "Air" Michael Jordan.
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Case in point.
 
Good players make everyone around them better.


On a side note, the NBA is hardly even basketball. I'd rather watch good college basketball any day.
 
BlessedAnomaly said:

I'd rather watch good college basketball any day.
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So would I.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been very much good college basketball played in decades.

Does anyone really think that this year's mostly-white first team of not-athletic-enough-to-play-in-the-NBA-by-age-20-so-they're-stuck-in-the-minors All Americans could have so much as stepped on the court against teams featuring Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Akeem Olujuwon, Clyde Drexler, Ralph Sampson, Patrick Ewing or Len Bias?

Do I like the fact that there are fewer college games per season, thus making each individual game that much more important?

Sure.

Do I love the huge rivalries, with fanatical fans on each side going berzerk from tip-off to buzzer?

You betcha.

Is the first Thursday of March Madness still the most exciting sports day of the year?

Damn skippy.

But as great as college basketball WAS back in it's heyday, and as much fun and excitement it still brings to the table in small doses in March, the fact remains that because of the SERIOUS dearth of talent at what now appears to be the Junior Varsity level, the NBA has clearly taken over as the more enjoyable sport to follow.

The team spirit and the extreme effort and enthusiam of the players MIGHT be even greater in the WNBA than in men's college basketball.

But I'd never know because the talent level is so wafer-thin, it's not worth missing a rerun of Who's The Boss to find out.

Gimme Kobe's or Lebron's or Iverson's athleticism or Garnett's or Duncan's freakish mobility (given their size) or Nash's or Kidd's Pele-like court vision any day.

I love this game.
 
StarOceanHouse said:
The real question is...Who will be a better player 5 years from now, Kobe or Lebron?
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My money's on Kobe (shockingly) because of the Jordanesque killer instinct he consistently displays at the end of important close games.

That said, Lebron's upside is downright scary.
 
I like college beacuse I think it's closer to what basketball is(or is supposed to be, in my head at least). More fundamentals and actual plays being made rather than one dude scoring all his teams fuckin points.
 
L O V E L I F E said:
. . . Bryant is on pace to eventually retire as the greatest player of all time?
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not RIDICULOUS...but I still don't consider him much of a team player. He had to score 81 to squeak by the RAPTORS. It should never get to that point.
 
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