Opioids Is it possible to become IMMUNE to opiates?

[Scoliosis]

I started off 12 months ago at 4 x 5mg percs per day and today am at 3 x 80mg oxy & 3 x 10mg instant release for my legit pains.

I can luckily play around with these mg's but at he very least my pain dictates 200mg minimum per day or else I get minor WD feelings ... and my back pain will bug me somewhat.

I still recall the incline when I went from 20mg to 60mg to 120mg and so on ... to 240mg / daily and the highs were absolutely fuckin amazing.

I smoked sess / sensi weed and hash 10+ yrs back and the relaxed 100% ZEN feeling I used to get from clean hash / outdoor , chem-free herb was also felt at 100+ mg of oxycontin.

I no longer smoke due to asthma and only occasionally drink. Drinking was my crutch long ago as I never took any pain meds my whole life , except like 10-15 tylenol 3's and hard liquor. BAD FOR LIVER**** .... and now my euphoria is all but gone. Sort of. its about 50% as evident as it was 6 months ago. The pure euphoria is simply a memory.... but I did get it today with the help of red wine and 300mg .. and I felt like shit these past 2 hours. Stupid ass I am. See my other post for the story. i;m ok now.

Your tolerance is max'ed. I say, and I dont mean to preach = taper down large so you can get to the old feelings and even switch to other stuff, as mentioned.

Be safe.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Separating it out over 2 hours is strange; the first big dose is the good one and then re-doses usually aren't as good, just prolong the high in my experience.

Also, the fent probably worked because it is a lot stronger and you got a big dose in you all at once.

 

[hydrochron]

Well i'm fucking high as a kite lol. I think your best option is to wait until your in slight withdrawal and do a big amount, fuck it might as well.

 

[Sahand]

I havn't taken percs in 2 months. I took 20 mg and 3 valiums and didnt even get a buzz. i made a thread bout it similar issue dude.

 

[cire113]

um dont take opiates for 3 days and take a big shot i guarantee you'll get high...

Your not immune... its called your used to being "high" and you have a tolerance..

prettty self explanatory man

 

[hydrochron]

He is immune at the moment though, and stopping is easier said then done. A 32 mg shot is a strong dose of D, even for people with a tolerance. Immunity granted!

 

[MaddTime]

I think there might be something to the immunity theory. I once bought a large quantity of OC80s and found that it was nothing like other opiates. My DOC was morphine which gave me a great high, but the oxy's barely did anything at all. I felt a little 'up' a little stimulated, but def. not euphoric. I concluded that I must have been immune to the OC's. A similar thing happened with hydromorphone. But since you DID feel it at one point, I think it might just be tolerance.

 

[John_Burrows]

I know that if I stopped for a while and tried again, it would work - the immunity question comes from the fact that right now, no matter how much I take, it doesn't work. I thought the "rules" of tolerance were simply that the more tolerant you get, the more drugs it would take to get the desired effect - not that at a certain point it would just stop working.

I'm curious if any opiate users out there, because of tolerance, switched to a different drug and found satisfaction?

 

[ControlDenied]

its funny how all opiates are so similar, yet so different. and for junkies,who mix them constantly, in the quest to be high forever and not allow the sharp edge of society and das universe cut you, it gets interesting. here is how i figure it based on everyone i know and myself.

Cycle of Opie abuse

1. Percs. the pill everyone first becomes in love with opiates through. at first, 2 does plenty. then you need 6. eventually, no amount does a damn thing even after a long break.

2. dilaudid. the first time you snort only 2 mg, you get so high you suddenly understand what opiates are REALLY about.

3. heroin. you try snorting it. its similar to dilaudid but more trippy/funky.

4. oxy. you got back to try and enjoy it. it just doesnt do much. suddenly oxycodone, after playing with dilaudid and/or heroin [or any morphine-based opioid im guessing] is essentially useless.

so now youre binging on dilly and H [and/or or morphine; whatever you can get your hands on obviously] and spending money fast. and your tolerance is shooting up - so...next step is to...shoot....uuup. suddenly its like you discovered opiates all over again. but this, like getting high from oxy, only lasts a month or two of daily use. when youre shooting dilaudid, tolernace builds insanely quickly. its all about the rush, but the high is minimal, wears off well less than an hour. so you;re either gonna go to rehab, go on maintenance, or do heroin. i moved to a new city, stopped the dillies and started abysung morphine and heroin for 3 months. great cuz those drugs have legs. but i started to really miss the rush of D - it really is incredible. so i returned home and abused the fck out of dilaudid, maxed my visa went over the limit. then went back to mommy and daddy to recuperate. i cant. methadone and suboxone for long-term maintenance scare me, all they do is tease you and make you relapse - although that is better than being constantly addicted, obviously. so i end up as evveryone. bouncing between suboxone/methadone and whatever [strong] opioid you can get your hands.

so to recap. it goes like this
Percs--->Oxy---->snorting various---->injecting various---->maintenance/death.

[replace or add vicodin and opana as well as percs if you're in the States. they're unheard of in canada. and in europe all there is is heroin , and plenty of it, for very cheap. as well as some weird shit called Jurnista or something. but they dont have a pill-popping culture at all like in N. America. also not as much of an injection thing going on there. they get H so cheap snorting or smoking it is no problem.]

P.S.
for a point of reference, wheni got back home from the big city and started bangng dillies again, my tolernace went from 8 mg to needing at least 24 mg fur a rush. i was doing well over 30 mg at times. so dont beat yourself up too much, dilaudid simply laps up a massive tolernace like no other opiate. hence why many , especially myself, call it the "Crack of Opiates" [the only appeal is the rush; then you only want more, more, more, in a sour, bitter and angsty fashion.]

 

[hazejunk]

I don't know anything about this but could it be posible to breakdown(damage) your receptors so much that opiates just never feel "that" good any more. Or sort of becomming immune to them because of receptor breakdown?

 

[dokomo]

I don't know anything about this but could it be posible to breakdown(damage) your receptors so much that opiates just never feel "that" good any more. Or sort of becomming immune to them because of receptor breakdown?

Fortunately, it does not happen that way physiologically.

When you flood your brain with an enkephalin agonist, it reduces the number of available post-synaptic enkephalin receptors, in an attempt to reach a homeostatic state.

When you discontinue the enkephalin agonist, your brain will eventually increase the number of post-synaptic receptors, again to attempt to reach a homeostatic state.

There are numerous other factors involved in addiction, habituation, etc but what I've said above is the basis for tolerance.

To answer the main question of this thread - it is technically possible to become immune to some opioids but this is only in the sense that some opioids produce an immune reaction in those who are allergic, where antibodies are produced against the compound. This isn't necessarily hives or itching from histamine release, but a true anaphylactic reaction (which is rare.)

What the OP is describing is simply tolerance, and the solution is more time without taking opioids.

 

[ActiqAnnie]

I know it's easier said than done, but I would advise switching from the Dilaudid to another opioid that has an incomplete cross tolerance. I too have a seemingly endless supply of hydromorphone and I know it to be beloved of many, but I find it somewhat effective for pain and also that it no longer produces euphoria.

You can, essentially, become immune...not to the drug, but to side effects of the drug. Including euphoria and other "highs".

What I learned from my drug reps and some classes I took in med school (as well as some personal experience): obviously every individual has an individualized response to each drug. These drugs have side effects that fall into two categories - ones that are unchanging and need to be monitored and corrected for the duration of the time a patient is on the drug (think constipation) and those that the individual tends to adjust to. Although these side effects hit everyone differently and some people will never experience euphoria while other are predisposed to experiencing a greater amount, it is absolutely possible to become "immune" to that effect. So while taking more of the drug can still be dangerous and produce the side effects that do not wear off in time (respiratory depression), you will still be chasing a high that never comes.

Of course this is, essentially, what causes some people to OD - we assume that we can handle an extremely high dose because we are tolerant - but in fact, you could take a boatload of the stuff and OD without having any fun at all. I have no right to preach, and most people on this forum seem to have a deep and genuine respect and understanding of these drugs, but it bears noting that even though you may develop tolerance to a drug, it is possible to experience some side effects and not others. And a powerful potentiator will only increase the respiratory depression, not bring about euphoria.

Anyway, it sounds like you have, indeed, built up an immunity to Dilaudid-based euphoria. In terms of incomplete cross tolerance, I would suggest trying fentanyl (although this is another drug with an elusive euphoria that often also disappears with use), oxycodone or another differently-synthesized opioid. Fentanyl and oxyC may seem like opposite ends of the spectrum since we're talking micrograms vs. a rather high milligram dose, but both these drugs have a significantly incomplete cross tolerance with hydromorphone. I am not sure about oxymorphone - I saw a suggestion on this thread for Opana. The first time I tried Opana, I did experience a very nice euphoria, but I found that it increases tolerance perhaps even faster than fentanyl. And that the euphoria was something I became "immune" to faster than any other drug.

 

[whippa craka]

Your addicted and you need them to feel normal.

 

[ActiqAnnie]

Your addicted and you need them to feel normal.

Requiring a drug to "feel normal" (I assume you mean as opposed to feeling symptoms of withdrawal) is part of physical dependence. Physical dependence has been witnessed in rodents and humans following even one large dose of morphine. It is not addiction. Nor is needing a larger dose of a drug to feel the required amount of pain relief. That is tolerance.

Addiction is a much more complex issue that affects both pain management patients and recreational drug users (and all combinations of the two) alike. It is widely misunderstood by the general population as well as many doctors.

 

[ControlDenied]

^ you're just breaking things down into meaninglessness like most health practitioners often do too. dont mean to be condescending, but i dont find it that way at all.

also i find it hard to believe a strong dose of morphine will produce physical dependence. psychological addiction yes, but not the dependence.

but the point i had, is that all these aspects of drug abuse are so intertwined that to actually believe the different "factors' are "truly separate" is simply nonsense. thats when you should use gut instinct and admit to yourself that if my DoC isn't getting me high anyomre that you need help, immediately.

 

[Sorce]

I think the "immunity" is psychological and entirely possible. When i was on large amounts of H every day for a long time I no longer felt the rush and even the euphoria that I was used to feeling from the H. I still got the nod but only when i took a large amount...when I took a normal amount I would just feel not sick. If this is possible with H, which is a much more efficient delivery of potent morphine to the brain...I would imagine that the reduction of effects with D is even more pronounced.

 

[John_Burrows]

Thanks for the insightful posts, it's really helping me understand this better. Actually I've been trying to get my doc to let me try fent, but he's resisting - says most experiences with it have been negative. But I'm still trying - a few months back I did manage to get a fent patch and found it to be VERY effective, but I can't tell him that.

Meanwhile, no amount of dilaudid will get me high, but a normal dose does return me to "normal" and get rid of withdrawls. It also still works for pain, which I suppose is what it's SUPPOSED to do!

The doc perscribed me amytriptaline to potentiate, but it's only worked a handful of times and when it has worked it simply makes me nod. It's really weird, I've tried taking it at various intervals before the dilaudid, and on full and empty stomachs, but still it seems random as to when it actually seems to have any effect. Any ideas?

 

[Blasted]

I know there is an immunity(Or to us it would mean not getting high anymore) if anything is taken long enough or if taken at high dosages consecutivly, and when that happens its time to take a break, but everyone is different with how tolerence is effected,

But abstinence is a good start..easier said then done, but stopping for awhile is the only way i know for the best results.

 

[muvolution]

Requiring a drug to "feel normal" (I assume you mean as opposed to feeling symptoms of withdrawal) is part of physical dependence. Physical dependence has been witnessed in rodents and humans following even one large dose of morphine. It is not addiction. Nor is needing a larger dose of a drug to feel the required amount of pain relief. That is tolerance.

Addiction is a much more complex issue that affects both pain management patients and recreational drug users (and all combinations of the two) alike. It is widely misunderstood by the general population as well as many doctors.

Unlike a couple other people in this thread, I totally agree with this. Dependence is one thing, addiction is another. Tolerance comes either way. I just switched back to my regular PM med (Opana) from Suboxone, which I got no problem because I felt dependent on the PM meds so I took a break - it was no problem since i was trying to get ride of dependence/ tolerance, told my Dr. that, and i had no problem switching, I didn't stop and look for other hard opiates, or try to go back to Opana - I would say that would have been the sign that I was truly "addicted".

Anyways, I have done large amounts of Hydromorphone and Oxymorphone and by a certain point she's right, you fail to feel the "side effects" beyond a certain threshold. I would say that it's fairly similar level for most people, because at points, I felt as though no matter how much dilaudid I snorted or plugged (never went to the needle) and that was, at times 20-24 mg/ session, so I think there is a point where the positive side effects go away, or more accurately a point of diminishing returns which is probably consistent based on mg/ body mass with consideration for metabolism and body fat.

One caveat is that I would say that natural opiates are less prone to this effect than synthetic/ semi synthetics like HM, etc... I say this because several sources, William Boroughs among them attest to having extremely high opiate tolerance, specifically to Heroin and Morphine, which would show that many people who use large amounts of more natural opiates are able to maintain the positive side effects up to whatever dose is necessary.I believe this makes pretty good since, because our bodies are used to these natural one's from years of use. Just my opinion, based on some resources, history, and some educated hypothesis.

 

[unsui]

i've been on suboxone (2-8mg/day) for the past 2.5 years after trying to get clean from an IV heroin habit. i don't use heroin regularly anymore, but i tend to use once every 3 months or so on average. even when abstaining from heroin for 8 months at a time while on 2mg of suboxone, my tolerance seems to never go down. i tried shooting 16mg of dilaudid a month or 2 ago and i didn't feel shit (usually it takes 24mg to get that rush now), and i can't even get high off heroin unless i'm shooting NO PRICES shots of the best dope around. tolerance is a fucking bitch, but i imagine it will eventually go down if you abstain from everything including suboxone, right?