Opioids Is it possible to become IMMUNE to opiates?

[John_Burrows]

As far as I've always read, the longer you take opiates, the more your tolerance grows, and so the more you need to take for the desired effect.

I've been taking dilaudid (hydromorphone) daily for two and a half years; I started with plugging 4mg at a time and about 6 months ago crossed the line into the world of IV - and I'm now up to 16mg per session (not all in one shot - I break up the 16mg into 2 or 3 shots)

The trouble is I just don't get high anymore, no matter how much I take. Just now, as an experiment, over the course of the last 2 hours i've shot up 32mg of dilaudid and don't feel a thing.

Is this normal? I wish I could at least take a huge hit now and then for an occasional high but it doesn't seem like its possible.

Can people become immune? I mean if I'm in withdrawals injecting def brings me back to normal, and the drugs still manage the pain, but "the fun" has all but died out.

Sigh.

 

[looptheorist]

to the best of my knowledge dilaudid is a synthetic opiate, I personally favor the natural stuff but even there tolerance is a huge problem. I would assume that since dilauded is a synthetic chemical designed to work like the old fashioned opiates that tolerance will be a problem for you as well especially after 2 years.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) is a semi-synthetic. "True" synthetics include fentanyl and pethidine/meperidine (Demerol).

 

[socio]

You just have a high tolerance. This happens all the time with opioid addicts. What you're talking about -- that's the point when I, and a lotta people I know, switched to heroin. The reason we went to heroin was because you can get a dose larger than, say, 32 mgs of dilly or 160 mg of oxy or whatever pill you were taking a whole shitload of. Time to taper off, get on methadone, or start banging h. I would recommend one of the first two options.

(There are people who are naturally "opioid resistant" and have enormous tolerances without ever using, but that's not your situation.)

 

[Mongoose]

I have a high tolerence as well but i think its from subutex,as soon as I started taking that oxy, vikes, nothing worked and Im not talking suboxone either no naloxone.

 

[socio]

I have a high tolerence as well but i think its from subutex,as soon as I started taking that oxy, vikes, nothing worked and Im not talking suboxone either no naloxone.

That's not tolerance, that's the "blocking" effect, or antagonism. The naloxone is basically irrelevant. Buprenorphine itself will block all those drugs. It will even block naloxone! (Bupe OD's are some of the only ones -- if not the only ones -- that can't be reversed by naloxone and naltrexone b/c bupe's binding affinity is higher.)

 

[dayday]

I have a high tolerence as well but i think its from subutex,as soon as I started taking that oxy, vikes, nothing worked and Im not talking suboxone either no naloxone.

It doesnt really matter weather it has naloxone or not, the bupe binds to your opiate receptors stronger than other opiates which is why it's hard to get high while on Bupe.

And to the OP, Dilaudid, besides the rush (which for me at least is the first thing to go away with tolerance), it's a pretty weak opiate. If you don't want to go the H-block route, try some opana's or some shit. But if you're shooting pills, you'd probly be a lot better off shooting H anyways.

 

[microtel]

If possible, taper off then quit opiates for a week, then take a dose and note your body's response. It helps you learn about you.

Wish I had a dollar for every time opiates "stop" working for me, whether pills/heroin my tolerance builds massive quick if doing 'em daily or every two days, but then if I stop for a week then hit it again the euphoria is very very prevalent and the warm buzz goes on 10 plus hours. go figure. the human machine is a delicate yet extremely durable monster, take note of its reactions as you experiment on it (as you seem to be doing, and embrace harm reduction where possible).

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Socio and microtel nailed it. This is asked over and over again. Anytime an opioid user racks up a huge tolerance, they come on here and ask if they're magically all of the sudden immune. No, you just have a huge tolerance and the honeymoon is over.

EDIT:

At the request of the OP I'm tentatively reopening this to see if it produces any worthwhile discussion. As I said above though, these questions come up all the time and the responses are always the same.

The first obvious explanation is tolerance; the more you raise your doses (in quantity AND frequency) the larger and larger your tolerance is going to grow. On top of this, with virtually any heavy drug use, after a period you're not going to be able to achieve the high/desirable effects that you used to. This is usually referred to as the "honeymoon period" ending.

There is no empirical data to support people acquiring an immunity to opioids

 

[John_Burrows]

Thanks for the insightful replies, everyone.

I think I might be in the category of people who have some natural tolerance to opiates, since the whole reason I'm on dilaudid in the first place is because it took 3 or 4 vikes/percs to have ANY effect on me, and that was my first time using opiates. So, right from the start, it took double the normal adult dose to have an effect on me (and no, I'm not double the size of a normal adult

As far as trying heroin goes: I did. A few months back I decided to "step up" and give it a try, since mass quantities of dilaudid had no effect on me.

It didn't work.

On the west coast we only get black tar, and I got a bunch through a trusted friend. I started small and worked my way up to 3X the dose that had my friend flying high (from the same batch) and it essentially had no effect on me. For a half hour or so i felt a very mild buzz, but that was it.

So even a large amount of heroin couldn't get me higher than sea level.

On the other hand, I got my hands on a fentanyl patch and plugged it (this was about 5 months ago) and THAT did the trick. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a regular supply of fent to continue the experiment and collect more data.

Why would fent get me going but not a huge shot of H or D? Does that point to anything?

For the long term, what does someome whose opiates stopped working do if he wants to go on a little trip?

 

[dokomo]

Your situation as described is atypical.

The only realistic way to reverse some of your induced tolerance is to not consume opioids for several months, and then try again.

 

[MartinFn]

I understand you,as i have the same problem.I use fent 100mg,prescriped 15 patches for a month.The truth is that it works ok for my pain,but i don't get a high.John Burrows,i would like to explain please,what do you mean when you say"i got my hands on a fentanyl patch and plugged it,and THAT did the trick".You see,i'm trying to find a way to abuse the patch to get me some euphoria,like it did in the past.Unfotunattely,the tolerance gets high too soon..Any ideas for abuse,would be VERY usefull,i'm sure that most of you(or all,maybe..)understand me..Peace..

 

[IndustrialStrength]

Well I sympathize with you but I don't really have a good answer for you.
Considering you still get the pain relief that rules out some of the theories regarding hyperalgesia I would consider pointing you towards.

The only thing I can think of at the moment is the following.

NMDA antagonists for tolerance, a collection of the evidence and anecdotal reports

I've had some success with tolerance reduction or at least preventing increases with NMDA antagonist's in the past.
As I'm currently switching between sub's & full agonist's I haven't really been following this as I did in the past.
But in said past with just full agonist's I noticed some improvements with some of the methods in the above thread.
I know opiates weren't the original topic of discussion in said thread but they did end up coming up & some conclusions were guesstimated at.
Perhaps it might be of some use to you.

Hope that helps as I don't know what else to point you towards atm.

 

[hydrochron]

I think you have a natural tolerance, or have built up a permanent tolerance. I know that even when i'm not dependent on opiates for a few months. I have to do high amounts even after taking a break, and low amounts usually just torture me.

One thing you can do is not do 3 shots in 1 sitting. It would be better to do 1 big one, and also space out your doses. Maybe start waiting until you have a slight withdrawal.

Good luck.

 

[MartinFn]

IndustrialStrenght,thanx a lot.I'm on fent 7 years,almost of the beginning 100mg for 48 h.I was in h before,i was taking most euphoria i think,but it didn't controlled the pain as fent do,that's for sure.So,you can imagine how i felt the first times i took fent..Wow,i said,that's it..no pain at all,and euphoria,that's it..Even now,i prefer fent,and sometimes i use potentiates,so i think it's not good for me to complain,because i know a lot of people who pain too much,and they're not complaining,so.. Really thanx for the NDMA antagonists,i didn't knew it.I must read it carefully to see,it might be very carefully for me..If somebody knows way for abusing,let's share it with us..Have a good year everybody,health and peace first..

 

[John_Burrows]

Martin: we don't really encourage people to "abuse" their meds, so you might want to consider phrasing your questions a little more delicately.

When I spoke of "plugging" the fentanyl, I was talking about rectal administration, which has a much higher bioavailability with most (if not all) opiates. You should do a thread title search for plugging fentanyl, I did a write up of my experience a while back. Essentially, if you are looking to make your opiates more effective, you should look to alternatives to oral administration. Obviously IV gives you the strongest reaction, but it's also very dangerous. Rectal admin of opiates will give you results almost as strong as IV but with none of the risk.

Honestly, if I could trade in my highly coveted dilaudid pills for fent patches I would, because for some reason a high dose of fent was much more effective on me than dilaudid (and if anyone reading this can explain why this is the case, i'd be very grateful).

I guess my real question is what direction would you point the opiate user who no longer finds opiates effective? In other words, what pharma should I look into that might give me similar results but won't be cut off by my opiate tolerance?

Time to look into NMDA...

 

[udoldhead]

If possible, taper off then quit opiates for a week, then take a dose and note your body's response. It helps you learn about you.

Wish I had a dollar for every time opiates "stop" working for me, whether pills/heroin my tolerance builds massive quick if doing 'em daily or every two days, but then if I stop for a week then hit it again the euphoria is very very prevalent and the warm buzz goes on 10 plus hours. go figure. the human machine is a delicate yet extremely durable monster, take note of its reactions as you experiment on it (as you seem to be doing, and embrace harm reduction where possible).

Pretty much what happens for me too. If I stop for a few days and use small doses of suboxone, 2mg - 4mg each day, to control the withdrawl symptoms when I shoot heroin again I get a nice high from 2 or 3 bags... then the tolerance comes back very quickly if I keep using each day, so I tend to use for 2-3 days then lay off for a few.

 

[John_Burrows]

I've never tried suboxone... I guess I'll look it up and see if it's right for me. Naturally if I could lower my opiate consumption I might be able to lessen my tolerance.. But since I am so hyper tolerant anyway, I'd probably have to just quit for a few weeks at least, and then it would be just to hopefully get a good buzz once or twice; seems like desperate measures and a lot of work to just go against the grain.

I think I'm better off finding something else that makes me "happy," or a good potentiator. My pain doc perscribed amitriptyline to potentiate, but it seems almost random as to when it works. Recently I gave dxm another whirl, it had been a while since I tried it. I have to admit, it gave me good results, but long term dxm just doesn't work. At least for me, once or twice a week is probably enough of that stuff.

Of course, if all of us were happy just catching a buzz once or twice a week, all of this would probably be a lot easier... And safer!

Since I'm on vacation until the end of the month I'm looking to "live fast" every night until it's time to go back to work, but it's easier said than done :-(

 

[Thomas29]

Ya that would be called tolerance fyi lol.

 

[RedRum OG]

its called tolerance. dillys build it quick, super quick if IV. you said 32mg over a 2 hours... dilly doesnt go over time. its just for the rush. so doing 32mg at a time might get you a rush if you do it all in one shot, not that i would recommend it.