Is it possible MDMA has actually helped with my depression?

[Synaesthesia242]

O well would you look at that.... correct again.

That's it, that's your response? No context, no explanation? If you do a bit of reading you'll see a lot of these studies are sponsored by the government, with huge incentives to get "positive results". There was the huge scandal where the guy who had a study proving that MDMA was neurotoxic "accidentally" gave monkeys Methamphetamine.

 

[oscthebooklad]

stop acting the bigman just because you have read afew studies and can post diagrams onto an internet forum. The idea that axons grow back abnormally comes from a study where baboons were injected with a near lethal dose of MDMA and then there brain recovery studied. This is not indicative of how any human would consume MDMA, and the human brain is a world away in terms of difference from a baboon.

Truth is there is little anybody knows about how MDMA works, and the potential damage caused. Im sorry you are a paranoid schizo mess who is unable to enjoy the wonder of MD anymore. but you dont need to ruin it for everyone else with your sensationalist crap, just because u cant hack.


OP - if you have nothing in your life to make u anxious or depressed it goes without saying that comedowns won't be bad. Everything is relative. Just try and keep the positive mind state u get from mandy, and use the clarity of thought u get on it to reflect on your life. %)

 

[F1n1shed]

stop acting the bigman just because you have read afew studies and can post diagrams onto an internet forum. The idea that axons grow back abnormally comes from a study where baboons were injected with a near lethal dose of MDMA and then there brain recovery studied. This is not indicative of how any human would consume MDMA, and the human brain is a world away in terms of difference from a baboon.

Truth is there is little anybody knows about how MDMA works, and the potential damage caused. Im sorry you are a paranoid schizo mess who is unable to enjoy the wonder of MD anymore. but you dont need to ruin it for everyone else with your sensationalist crap, just because u cant hack.


OP - if you have nothing in your life to make u anxious or depressed it goes without saying that comedowns won't be bad. Everything is relative. Just try and keep the positive mind state u get from mandy, and use the clarity of thought u get on it to reflect on your life. %)

Wow quite some hatred towards me. Who the hell said i can't enjoy MDMA anymore? Even when i was rolling every month i would still be off my mind every time when i'd dose. I haven't rolled in over a year and a half. That isn't because i can't enjoy it anymore, the high is just as good as it ever was. I am beyond that, i don't roll anymore because i know the damage it causes.

You say there is little anybody knows about how MDMA works? Yea that's a crock of shit, there are plenty of in depth studies and they all say the same thing. SERT levels are wayyyyy lower after dosing MDMA and they stay low for a long time, yes they recover but it can take a year. Have fun living life on a retarded serotonin system.

I've helped many people reach recovery, many of these people actually taking care of them self and not rolling often. Yet they still feel like a ghost of their past self for months and months (sometimes years). IMO that is proof of brain abnormalities and neuro toxicity taking place.

If you want to be ignorant and think that MDMA doesn't do damage go ahead and roll every week end. I'm seeing a lot of biased users in this thread, you guys aren't worth my time.

 

[F1n1shed]

That's it, that's your response? No context, no explanation? If you do a bit of reading you'll see a lot of these studies are sponsored by the government, with huge incentives to get "positive results". There was the huge scandal where the guy who had a study proving that MDMA was neurotoxic "accidentally" gave monkeys Methamphetamine.

About this.... news flash. Methamphetamine is actually less neuro toxic than MDMA, as dopamine neurons are way more resilient than serotonin.
I Pay close attention to my mood and when i've done meth i recover with in a day or 2. I can't say the same about MDMA....

 

[EmDeeEmAye]

Wow quite some hatred towards me. Who the hell said i can't enjoy MDMA anymore? Even when i was rolling every month i would still be off my mind every time when i'd dose. I haven't rolled in over a year and a half. That isn't because i can't enjoy it anymore, the high is just as good as it ever was. I am beyond that, i don't roll anymore because i know the damage it causes.

You say there is little anybody knows about how MDMA works? Yea that's a crock of shit, there are plenty of in depth studies and they all say the same thing. SERT levels are wayyyyy lower after dosing MDMA and they stay low for a long time, yes they recover but it can take a year. Have fun living life on a retarded serotonin system.

I've helped many people reach recovery, many of these people actually taking care of them self and not rolling often. Yet they still feel like a ghost of their past self for months and months (sometimes years). IMO that is proof of brain abnormalities and neuro toxicity taking place.

If you want to be ignorant and think that MDMA doesn't do damage go ahead and roll every week end. I'm seeing a lot of biased users in this thread, you guys aren't worth my time.

if you are going to make claims and youre talking about studies that back them up could you please post them?

The one guy is questioning your claim about serotonin axons and your picture, is what he saying correct?

It would be helpful to everybody if you posted the studies you are talking about. Unless you dont want to discuss this anymore then fine. It would maybe help us get to the point a bit faster.

I'd also appreciate it if everybody chilled out a bit and tried not to get too personal. You can do what you want but it isnt really helpful and its not achieving anything.

 

[laugh]

Wow quite some hatred towards me.

why so personal?

Yea that's a crock of shit, there are plenty of in depth studies and they all say the same thing. SERT levels are wayyyyy lower after dosing MDMA and they stay low for a long time, yes they recover but it can take a year. Have fun living life on a retarded serotonin system.

Lanxon writes
"It's true: 'Effects of cocaine on honeybee dance behavior,' 'Fellatio by fruit bats prolongs copulation time,' and 'Are full or empty beer bottles sturdier and does their fracture-threshold suffice to break the human skull?' are all genuine scientific research papers, and all were genuinely published in journals or similar publications. Wired's presentation of a collection of the most bizarrely-named research papers contains seven other gems, including one about naval fluff and another published in The Journal of Sex Research."

retrieved from 10 most absurd scientific papers

[Correction Notice: An erratum for this article was reported in Vol 22(8) of Journal of Psychopharmacology (see record 2008-16669-018). Journal of Psychopharmacology published an Editorial by the authors to which there was a reply from Green Marsden and Fone, published online, entitled ‘MDMA as a clinical tool: a note of caution. A response to Sessa and Nutt’ followed by a reply from the authors which was published in the June issue. The Editorial office regret that the reply from Green, et al. had not been published in print before the reply form Sessa and Nutt. We would like to apologize for any confusion or difficulties this may have caused.] 3,4-Methylenedioxymethlyamphetamine (MDMA) has penetrated extensively into our culture in the last thirty years. It started life in medicine when adopted as a clinical tool by psychotherapists on the West Coast of America who used it as an alternative to the then banned LSD for facilitating interactions in couples' therapy. The development of MDMA as a tool to assist psychotherapy is now well underway, but perhaps, the next stage of exploring the drug's potential lies in proposing a study that investigates it's role as a potent serotonin agonist to rapidly elevate mood. However, a study such as this remains extremely difficult to put forward given the continuing prohibition. Should such studies prove successful they could offer a novel approach to the treatment of depression although the current laws mitigate against pharma following up such findings with new drugs with the same actions. This situation is bad for science and bad for patients and quite illogical. We must not let MDMA research be hijacked by politics, as has happened with LSD. MDMA is a medical tool and it deserves to remain within medicine. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

retrieved from psychnet - american psychological association

 

[oscthebooklad]

Have fun living life on a retarded serotonin system.

Will do mate

 

[JWills20]

Wow quite some hatred towards me. Who the hell said i can't enjoy MDMA anymore? Even when i was rolling every month i would still be off my mind every time when i'd dose. I haven't rolled in over a year and a half. That isn't because i can't enjoy it anymore, the high is just as good as it ever was. I am beyond that, i don't roll anymore because i know the damage it causes.

You say there is little anybody knows about how MDMA works? Yea that's a crock of shit, there are plenty of in depth studies and they all say the same thing. SERT levels are wayyyyy lower after dosing MDMA and they stay low for a long time, yes they recover but it can take a year. Have fun living life on a retarded serotonin system.

I've helped many people reach recovery, many of these people actually taking care of them self and not rolling often. Yet they still feel like a ghost of their past self for months and months (sometimes years). IMO that is proof of brain abnormalities and neuro toxicity taking place.

If you want to be ignorant and think that MDMA doesn't do damage go ahead and roll every week end. I'm seeing a lot of biased users in this thread, you guys aren't worth my time.

If you're going to discuss the science behind MDMA-induced damage, at least use the terms in the right context. In the context of your post, it appears that 'SERT' refers to 'Serotonin' which is not true. The SERT is the Serotonin Reuptake Transporter, not an abbreviation of Serotonin. While it may be simple semantics, such a basic error certainly doesn't suggest that you understand the science well enough to spout around confident statements like

MDMA does nothing good for your serotonin neurons, it basically degenerates the serotonin axons and makes them grow out again abnormally

. In fact, i've read that low doses of MDMA may infact be beneficial to the stimulation of novel serotonin neurons, thereby facilitating serotonin transmission. I've also read that high doses can cause severe serotonergic distruction (high-dose rat studies). What i've yet to see is a study providing strong evidence behind any MDMA-induced damage from common recreational doses consumed moderately. So, no, I see no evidence to suggest that some of the more cautious MDMA users (I.E. Bluelight posters) will have to live life on a 'retarded serotonin system.'

The studies aren't saying the 'same thing' at all. There's a reason that scholars are having the 'Great Ecstasy Debate' and thats because results are equivocal and not at all conclusive.

 

[F1n1shed]

If you're going to discuss the science behind MDMA-induced damage, at least use the terms in the right context. In the context of your post, it appears that 'SERT' refers to 'Serotonin' which is not true. The SERT is the Serotonin Reuptake Transporter, not an abbreviation of Serotonin. While it may be simple semantics, such a basic error certainly doesn't suggest that you understand the science well enough to spout around confident statements like . In fact, i've read that low doses of MDMA may infact be beneficial to the stimulation of novel serotonin neurons, thereby facilitating serotonin transmission. I've also read that high doses can cause severe serotonergic distruction (high-dose rat studies). What i've yet to see is a study providing strong evidence behind any MDMA-induced damage from common recreational doses consumed moderately. So, no, I see no evidence to suggest that some of the more cautious MDMA users (I.E. Bluelight posters) will have to live life on a 'retarded serotonin system.'

The studies aren't saying the 'same thing' at all. There's a reason that scholars are having the 'Great Ecstasy Debate' and thats because results are equivocal and not at all conclusive.

I've actually posted credible research papers before. I just know that you will disregard it no matter what because you are biased. That is why i don't want to waste time pulling up research papers, it will go to waste regardless. You are right in the fact that high doses cause severe serotonergic destruction, but common recreational doses still cause some hefty damage(especially redosing which is what many MDMA users do). And you can find those studies your self, i will not bother as i already know the truth behind this all.

Regardless if you want to believe me or not , it is well known that MDMA and Meth both cause damage to the specific neurons nerve terminals.

 

[Folley]

And you can find those studies your self, i will not bother as i already know the truth behind this all.

Mhmmm scientists don't even know the whole truth about the serotonin system.. I think you ought to take a step back friend. It's really not hard to find a scary MDMA study, they're really the only ones who get funded.

 

[EmDeeEmAye]

I've actually posted credible research papers before. I just know that you will disregard it no matter what because you are biased. That is why i don't want to waste time pulling up research papers, it will go to waste regardless. You are right in the fact that high doses cause severe serotonergic destruction, but common recreational doses still cause some hefty damage(especially redosing which is what many MDMA users do). And you can find those studies your self, i will not bother as i already know the truth behind this all.

Regardless if you want to believe me or not , it is well known that MDMA and Meth both cause damage to the specific neurons nerve terminals.

I really dont know why you are so resistant to share your knowledge, afterall you know the truth behind it all and you have studies to back up your claims. I dont know why are resistant to sharing that with others. It's odd you would use these studies in your arguments but then refuse to post them when asked.

I am not biased and in my opinion you would not be wasting your time sharing. If you feel that way then I don't know why you are bothering to keep coming back to this thread.

 

[angeleyes]

Mhmmm scientists don't even know the whole truth about the serotonin system.. I think you ought to take a step back friend. It's really not hard to find a scary MDMA study, they're really the only ones who get funded.

They're the ones that get funded by the ones with the political bias, I doubt the neutral way of finding the scientific fact is ever done with tests anymore, only the self funded labs that rely on donations can.

IT'S THE GOVERNMENT, GRAB YOUR TIN FOIL HATS EVERYONE THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE MY PENSION!

 

[F1n1shed]

I really dont know why you are so resistant to share your knowledge, afterall you know the truth behind it all and you have studies to back up your claims. I dont know why are resistant to sharing that with others. It's odd you would use these studies in your arguments but then refuse to post them when asked.

I am not biased and in my opinion you would not be wasting your time sharing. If you feel that way then I don't know why you are bothering to keep coming back to this thread.

Honestly... i'm stoned ... every day. And it causes laziness in me (big surprise) so it would be a bitch to find the exact research i am looking for.
I'll give you something to work with though.

 

[F1n1shed]

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1151061

'Although the ability of some MDMA dosing regimens to produce chronic serotonin axon loss is clear'

'Consistent evidence for chronic reductions in serotonin signaling in individuals who use MDMA as a recreational drug derives from nuclear imaging measures of the presynaptic axonal serotonin transporter as a surrogate marker for serotonin axon integrity.14- 21 The bulk of these studies have found lasting reductions in serotonin transporter binding levels in MDMA users that are prominent in the cerebral cortex.1- 2 Although reductions in serotonin transporter density are consistent with serotonin axon loss, there is evidence that transporter levels show some recovery with sustained abstinence,17,22 suggesting that partial recovery from initial axon injury may be possible.'

Didn't i say it caused axonal loss or degenerated them.... hmm sounds like i did. Also i said SERT levels were lower ... didn't I? Yes as in the serotonin transporter, although recovery is possible who knows to what degree.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7643196 here's another study talking about reorganization of 5ht axons after the usage of MDMA.

Now i know what is going to happen next, you guys are gonna say these studies are meant to scare people away from MDMA, blah blah blah.... Educate your selves..
There's a reason spacing is so important with MDMA, yet it isn't brought up with most other drugs. It's because no matter what damage will always occur, spacing it out just allows for less damage to happen.

 

[laugh]

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1151061

that is poly drug users champ and it has been produced for psychiatry..

Didn't i say it caused axonal loss or degenerated them.... hmm sounds like i did. Also i said SERT levels were lower ... didn't I? Yes as in the serotonin transporter, although recovery is possible who knows to what degree.

in what dosages? id bet these animals being tested on are receiving ridiculous dosages. please prove me wrong.

Now i know what is going to happen next, you guys are gonna say these studies are meant to scare people away from MDMA, blah blah blah.... Educate your selves..

lol - what is the standard of your education sir? i went to a catholic school and was educated about the bible - doesnt make it right..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7643196

The recreational drug (+/)3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "ecstasy") is a methamphetamine derivative that selectively destroys central 5-HT axons and axon terminals in animals and, possibly, humans.

seriously dude have you got anything better than that? i might possibly win the lotto, i possibly won't.
whilst this appears to be a respectable article imo it does not actually support your claims. have you actually read the paper?

Such lasting changes in brain innervation, documented here in MDMA-treated animals, may have implications for humans using MDMA recreationally.

mdma use may have implications for human recreational use. well that is bloody obvious dude. that is like saying the may be aliens there may not be.

There's a reason spacing is so important with MDMA, yet it isn't brought up with most other drugs. It's because no matter what damage will always occur, spacing it out just allows for less damage to happen.

that doesnt even make sense. logically spacing out dosages will allow the brain to recover and repair. i dont understand how spacing out dosages is going to cause less damage. how does that even work. smh.

have you got any conclusive evidence to back up you claims?

 

[F1n1shed]

Laugh you've proved your idiocy in the past. You are one of the most ignorant people i have seen, even when facts are presented to you. You jumble them around and ignore them, please let someone with more brain capacity respond to my posts . You just blindly disregard anything i say, you always have. It's almost as if you think it is a good thing that more people are rolling, what is your goal here? To bring more e-tards into society? This is harm reduction...

 

[laugh]

Sure thing dude. Your argument leaks like a sieve...

Do you have any conclusive evidence to support your fear campaign, or, are you again going to resort to childish insults?

 

[oscthebooklad]

Honestly... i'm stoned ... every day. And it causes laziness in me (big surprise) so it would be a bitch to find the exact research i am looking for.
I'll give you something to work with though.

well you must know all about the lengths people go to justify their own drug habits then ?

 

[F1n1shed]

Sure thing dude. Your argument leaks like a sieve...

Do you have any conclusive evidence to support your fear campaign, or, are you again going to resort to childish insults?

Lol at 'fear campaign'.

You have to realize i am a drug user, an addict rather. I am not scaring people off drugs, i do not work for the government. I just want people to be educated about MDMA, because i've seen it fuck up many minds. Mine included, luckily i feel recovered now and it took a very very long time. As I've said before in other threads, i was a responsible user who spaced out his usage. Yet i still ran into a load of psychological problems, meaning this must be a very neuro-toxic drug as almost every study will state....

 

[Maya]

Laugh, finished is just trying to help. I've seen what it does to people and didn't you have a come down as well yourself?