Heroin Is I.M. injections more dangerous that I.V. and if so, why?

[burn out]

I have micron filters and I would like to try to inject heroin I.M. I cant do it I.V. because I just can't seem to get the needle in the vein and register and I don't like poking myself and digging around in my arm for a vein - it feels almost like self mutilation after so many failed attempts.

I normally smort it but I don't like the drip. I tried plugging tonight, and it seemed to be less effective than snorting. So that's why I am interested in I.M.

 

[Doug2113]

They are a lot more painful and I hear they can cause a whole heap of problems including, but not limited to hitting a nerve or an artery.

 

[burn out]

The pain is not too bad. I am very accustomed to I.M. shots because I used to injection ketamine that way all the time as well as suboxone more recently. The pain is really not much worse than the pain you get from snorting if you do the shot right. It is important to relax the muscle before you inset the needle, push down the plunger slowly and try not to inject more than tree mL at a time. Hope that helps!

 

[burn2shine]

When you put the needle into your skin pull back right away, it looks like the rig fills with air but it's only empty space. Push the rig toward the vein and you may or may not feel a pinch but when you get into the vein the rig will fill with blood. Don't just poke and guess, put the rig in, pull back, and push it toward the vein. Shoot into visible veins and if you can shoot into y's (where a vein breaks off into two paths, like a fork in the road). If you put it into the split the veins won't roll away from the needle. Try to avoid deep veins as they're harder to locate And take more digging. If you can't find any visible y's just find a prominent vein and shoot it at a 30-45• angle to the point where you're almost pinning the vein against your skin. Shooting right along the vein and not at an angle increases the chance that it'll roll away from the needle and you'll have to pull out and try again.

I have two "y" veins in each hand and I can hit them the first time every time. There's also a bulging vein on the inside of each of my wrist that I can hit pretty easily by pinning them against my skin and pushing until it registers.

Also use 29-30'guague needles, get them from pharmacies or needle exchanges, the ones you get from food and tack stores are no good for iv.

 

[Ayrios]

I've IM'd a ridiculous number of drugs and have never experienced any problems, but I'd never IM a street drug or a pill I knew wasn't 99.9% pure. Just too scary for me, even with a fine enough micron filter. I don't know the size of every particulate I'm injecting. Capillaries in muscle tissue have a hard time circulating out insolubles compared to your superficial veins which are fat and dump most of the insolubles into your lungs for you to enjoy another day, so pill binder or the insoluble shit in most heroin and coke is certainly not safe to IM. By my logic, IM street heroin is probably less safe than subcutaneous. A missed IV shot that ends up being SC can dissolve completely in ~3 minutes and even provide a rush if you put your arm or wherever you missed under a hot faucet. Skin-popping is a shit idea--it just absorbs so fast that I doubt IM would that much better. If I thought it might, I'd possibly have micron-filtered some and tried by now With stimulants, there's the additional risk of smaller capillaries bursting from a site-localized increase in blood pressure and vasoconstriction. Your big veins can handle that better.

Auto-registration (pulling back early on the plunger so it will shoot back once you get to a vein automatically) never worked for me with 29g or 31g needles, but I agree with the rest--don't dig around. You shouldn't need to unless the vein rolls or you go in at the wrong angle. If that's the case, I pull out and back-load another new pin. Approximate the depth of the bottom side of a targeted vein, then try to angle your needle such that if you put the whole thing in, it'll still be inside the vein and not poking out the other side of it. In other cases with deeper veins (or shorter needles) or big rolling surface veins, take a different approach and use a steeper angle without planning to fit the entire needle's length. Just gently keep trying to register as you go deeper, and only move in a tiny bit deeper once you do manage to register so you're not piercing the bottom wall. Registering shouldn't require a change of posture, by the way. You should approach the site holding it the same way as when you remove it, with your thumb and middle finger holding tightly the '+' section of the barrel and your index finger ready to push the plunger backwards from underneath to register, then wrapping around to inject.

 

[pkt]

its more dangerous because you dont know what the fuck is in your heroin and abscesses are not a fun thing.

 

[HaZeX]

for IM personally I found 1 1/4" and 23g was the best for the top of my thigh.

 

[burn out]

^Thats what I use but after reading these replies, I am not going to try to I.M. heroin. It sounds too dangerous. I really just want to learn how to I.V. and I think I might try in my hand because I can see veins that form the Y there and during my last attempt, I was closest to hititng a vein in my hand.

ANyway I am wondering however if I should use a torniquette and where do I place it if injecting in my hand?

 

[Tommyboy]

I have only IVd maybe a dozen times, but have never used a tourniquet. If you can see your veins just fine, then you don't need to use one. It's just one extra step really, and since you are supposed to release it before pushing down the plunger, it leaves more time to slip out of the vein.

 

[Ayrios]

^Thats what I use but after reading these replies, I am not going to try to I.M. heroin. It sounds too dangerous. I really just want to learn how to I.V. and I think I might try in my hand because I can see veins that form the Y there and during my last attempt, I was closest to hititng a vein in my hand.

ANyway I am wondering however if I should use a torniquette and where do I place it if injecting in my hand?

It'd be better if you got familiar with your inner elbow and worked your way up to the hands. I need not tell you how busy the top of the hands are anatomically, so go in at a very shallow angle. Torniquet should be around your wrist, and of course loosened before injecting.

Torniquets make things a little more complicated, so if at all possible, I'd do some pushups, pump you fists and watch for the median cubital in each elbow to rise up or the cephalic to the right of it (if looking at your left arm). Those are easy for most people to hit without a torniquet. Feel around the top of your wrists before you get to the hand. There are some huge but often rolly veins you can hit there without a torniquet as well.

Regarding IM, I'm always surprised by the sites/gauges people use. The deltoid is accessible with a 1/2" 29g, can take 1 cc comfortably, and I've never had a problem using mine after a few hundred times.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

My personal opinion is that with heroin, you really don't know what the cut is. If you use a 0.2um micron filter, then it should be safer for IM use. If you can still see cuts in the shot after micron filtration, I would not IM it.

 

[THC2LSD]

IM or SC of contaminated drugs can lead to infections more easily than IV. If you were dealing with pure ampoules then IM/SC would be safer. Even codeine sulfate pill designed for IM/SC require a micron filter. Although you might get away with IM/SC, I've heard of people who would do IM with heroin/meth/oxy. If you do it, you have to be clean with everything involved, use fresh syringes, clean spoon, clean cotton to filter, and clean the injection site with alcohol. http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/1/35.full.pdf It would be best to get a micron filter if you can. Or IV(feels best), or just stick to snorting(best option).

There was a time until the 1970's that most heroin addicts skin-popped.

You should always use a tourniquet, that's why you not hitting anything!

 

[obscure]

With IM and SC injections you are more prone to infection/abscess. There is also a slower come on and less of a rush. In the real world we use IM mostly for immunizations, rarely for drug therapy. That's almost almost IV. The only time I use SC is for testing people for TB.

I sympathize with the OP about not being able to IV. I've given hundreds of people shots, started lines, etc.. and I can almost never stick myself. Sucks to have shitty veins. And that's why I eventually moved to taking Rx meds PO(by mouth) instead.

Best of luck and be safe. Maybe the needle just isn't a good fit for you.

 

[Znegative]

with a micron filter it's safer, but with a street drug like heroin it's really hard to say, as no ROA could be considered straight when you don't know the purity of the product, or the cut. However, I would never I.M heroin. If you're going to use a needle for this drug, I think that you might as well learn how to just I.V. I've missed shots of dope before (in fact the first person to shoot me up missed and skinned popped it, which just felt like i snorted it). Try holding your arm more parallel to your body instead of out in front of you, and make sure that the bevelled edge of the spike is face up. you want to go in at a very shallow angle, maybe around 15 degrees. Once you're in pull back on the plunger. if blood doesn't trickle up the barrel push a little deeper or pull out a little more (you're creating a suction here, so when you DO hit the vein the blood slides in and you just have to push down) hope this helps. Then again, maybe not, I've seen the needle and the damage done.

 

[ifuckedyourGF]

Its only specualtion but:

iv is crossing all the safetyboarders of your body. It goes through your liver directly into your brain, can cause a stroke or a heartattack, if something constipate your veins or arterias. dont forget microorganisms.

im youre injecting in the muscle, your body is still able to fight inflammation and abscesses, but this also can cause sepsis and amputations...

So i would say, i.v. is more dangerous.

 

[Znegative]

I would agree with this ^ in opiate naive individuals, but if the OP is already sniffing heroin, than he most likely has a tolerance, so he should just shoot less than he sniffs and make sure to use a clean syringe, and if he has a micron filter than that's even better, and means less chance of infection if there is some bacteria. I'm just speaking from experience. The only time I ever had trouble in terms of infection, swelling etc, was when I either missed a shot, or used a dirty needle. I just think if the OP needs to use a needle it's less likely that he'll OD or catch an infection through I.V (as long as he's using a sterile needle), and it is much more likely that he could develope an infection or abscess through I.M... I would never I.M personally unless there was a real advantage to it (such as longer duration) and even then only if I had ampules or a micron filter. I just think there is no point switching from sniffing to I.M with heroin. Either stick to insufflation or learn how to I.V properly. Not "liking the drip" sounds like a lame excuse btw, no ones going to judge you here for shooting drugs, but please do way out the the cost and benifit of insufflation to I.V/I.M (as both of these cary more risk than sniffing)