Is "Acid" on course to have the same purity issues as "Ecstasy"?

[thatdreamer123]

In my town, and I'd imagien almost anywhere ecstasy purity is a huge problem. The chance of finding legitimate MDMA on the street is very slim, let alone finding pressed pills with MDMA. This issue was caused and has gotten worse by the introduction of cheap/easy to get RCs that produce similar, but most of the time adverse effects.

I never really felt this applied to LSD per se, I've had plenty of friends get acid that didn't do anything at all, or barely anything. And that issue usually arose from getting it spur of the moment from someone they didn't trust, or an equally shady situation.

But now just recently, it seems stuff like nbomes is hitting the streets pretty hard. Even seen a couple threads about it in the last couple days, people saying things like "getting nbombed" in the same way you might say getting "piped" or "pipe bombed" by pressed ecstasy pills.

Because now in combination with people attempting to rip you off with fake drugs, which has always been an issue and always will be, there is the addition of people selling drugs who don't even know the truth about what they distributing in the first place. Since someone who doesn't really know what they're doing, could most definitely mistake the effects of an nbome for LSD, while some will have terrible effects. In the same way people think they roll on piperazines or something equally as nasty, while a good amount of people feel sick and worse from them.

Before now, I found it much, much less dodgy picking up LSD on the street as to where I wouldn't even bother with trying to come across MDMA and such. And I know within circles pure drugs can be found, but the majority of people don't have that sort of access.

Is the introduction of nbomes going to knock out the market of legitimate LSD in the same way RC's destroyed ecstasy?

Will there be a newborn stigma against LSD once the OD's due to nbomes begins? Of course a smart person will make sure they dose correctly, but that won't be the case when people are getting this on the street rather than researching and then seeking out an online source, which would infinitely more reliable.

Thoughts? This worries me.

 

[daturaface]

yeah it sucks but it's happening. I know of people selling nbomes as acid, or, more sneaky, 'tabs' or 'trips', leaving the assumptions to the buyer. I think they're gonna get themselves beaten up byselling it to the wrong crowd who swallows their tabs, like not psychonaut sorts, more party trippers, half tabbers, since the nbomes aren't active when swallowed.
I guess that could be one way to identify dicey bastards selling nbomes as acid... when new tabs start circulating, sacrifice one for swallow. Ifit's not active, the seller's dicey.

 

[Solipsis]

Hmm I take it if you complain about ecstasy purity that you are in the U.S. or a similar continent regarding drug policies and not Europe for example where it is mostly a matter of knowing some people. That is always the trick of course but here in the Netherlands standards are very high which demonstrates that there is enough real MDMA to even bitch about minor impurities.

Apparently with LSD it can be less of a mega industry and it can depend on semi-local synths to provide for a big region for a while. Still availability may be a somewhat bigger problem in the U.S. than other places, based only on how easy it seems to be to get bullshitted with fake stuff there and the fact that I basically never had to worry about it. Perhaps that is bad evidence coming from a limited perspective.

I share your worry that too many people without real understanding of these things are just ordering NBOMe's and laying blotter with it, perhaps this often happens badly because they are not experienced in the true trade.

What examples are of actual statistics could be found in the Microgram bulletins for America and DIMS reports for my country and I am sure there are also Euro-taskforces and similar things in other countries. I have some experiences with DIMS and went to a conference where these results were explained but I have not updated my knowledge because I guess I don't care enough about international drug trends to invest time and energy in it. Although I have considered something like that for a job in the past.

 

[Okami]

In Britain real acid is very rare to come by. I can't find any at all :/

Edit: Pure mdma, ketamine and even 2c-b, not a problem. Acid on the other hand The stuff just doesn't seem to be here at all.

 

[Folley]

^ You don't even need to lay blotters... you can easily buy them online!


But yeah, it's happening. I don't really know how, because honestly 25i wasn't really ANYTHING like LSD for me... it completely lacks the mental depth and has hardly any visuals. Only someone that has never tried any psychedelic could confuse the two, which is unfortunately most people who are taking NBOMe sold as acid.

It's quite unfortunate really, because I feel like 25i could fill the gap for people who don't like LSD. It's a lot better for the "Swag Fags" and "dubstep ragers" who can't take the kind of introspection LSD can bring... but for conventional tripping, it's shit. I feel like it will come into it's own class eventually though, I don't see people being able to maintain profits by selling bunk and it's a good enough drug on it's own



an Ehrlich test would be needed to prove you have LSD
http://www.eztestkits.com/en/ehrlich-ez-testing-kit

but normal ecstasy testing kits (Marquis and Mecke) should be able to test for NBOMe

 

[OrneTTe]

This summer at festivals, Phish, and Umprey's McGee shows a lot of the "acid" going around was 25i. People are starting to realize this stuff exists though so hopefully consumers will be a little more picky, but it seems that this is rarely the case. It used to be when you bought some random doses from a guy the worst that would happen is that they were bunk or really weak. It is a sad state of affairs that is for sure. The only way to solve this problem is to educate users (festival and concert goers especially) and call out people who are selling these chems as LSD. Lot justice needs to be served for sure. I for one am done buying random doses from strangers and will have a test kit with me this summer.

 

[thatdreamer123]

And like I said, for someone who has had real LSD, you'd know pretty quick that what you got (nbome) isn't LSD.

Normally I wouldn't give a shit if people are confusing there drugs harmlessly, but this shit can be pretty dangerous even at low doses. I know some people enjoy it but so many adverse and varying effects... Just last night I was with three friends who all took it, and one buddy, just like me had the issue with extreme depression and this terrible cracked out/brain fried feeling on the comedown, where it sort of drawls, visuals kind of persist but you're too paranoid and stimulated to get any sleep.

I can't imagine someone having a full on classic "bad trip" on this stuff, but you could definitely freak out from the ickyness afterwards, I still remember looking in the mirror on the comedown of this stuff at 4 in the morning, cold sweats, couldn;'t sleep and just thinking "what the hell do you think you are doing fucking around with some chemical we just discovered 2 years ago that makes you see things".

@Follow

Hahaha, I dunno bout them stereotypes but I can see what you're getting at, the mind stuff that goes on is just not as sincere as classic psychs, you can easily see through it. Especially for me who has had very bad times on mushrooms where there is no reality in sight, with nbome reality stays kinda close, like "within arms reach", which kinda ruins any sort of introspection.

I just want people to appreciate LSD and not confuse it with this bollocks

This summer at festivals, Phish, and Umprey's McGee shows a lot of the "acid" going around was 25i. People are starting to realize this stuff exists though so hopefully consumers will be a little more picky, but it seems that this is rarely the case. It used to be when you bought some random doses from a guy the worst that would happen is that they were bunk or really weak. It is a sad state of affairs that is for sure. The only way to solve this problem is to educate users (festival and concert goers especially) and call out people who are selling these chems as LSD. Lot justice needs to be served for sure. I for one am done buying random doses from strangers and will have a test kit with me this summer.

Exactly what I'm saying here. Of course there was always a scare of DOx comps but that seems to have gone on in the UK and parts of Europe rather than the U.S., I feel these nbomes are gonna be an issue...

Definitely will be an issue at festivals, I know you're not supposed to discuss prices or anything but this stuff is about as cheap as it gets, like DIRT cheap, especially from vendors in large amounts

 

[OrneTTe]

The main problem I had with getting nbomed the time it happened to me is how much it raises ones body temp in comparison to LSD. It was 104 degrees that day at a Phish show and didnt dose MDMA for this very reason. Phens make my body temp rise. The come up was very different than LSD too, more like a 2c-x which makes sense.

 

[psood0nym]

Calling it a "purity" issue is misleading as it's a mislabeling issue (surprising how common it is for people not to distinguish the terms). Mislabeling aside, I am surprised there haven't been more NBOMe overdoses than I've seen reported. I'm curious to know the most up to date Microgram statistics on this, though. IIRC the evidence I've seen on Erowid about the topic suggests that as recently as 2004-ish the overwhelming majority of what was sold as LSD was in fact (often very low dose) LSD. For example, I don't think they found a single DOX or 5-MeO-aMT substitute among confiscated hits sold as LSD despite both chems being widely available at the time. Samples from organizations like Bunk Police suggesting the contrary arguably make for poor representations of the market because they are submitted by people who are already suspicious that what they have isn't LSD.

If you're afraid of overdosing because you suspect that what you have might be an NBOMe the easiest thing to do is to just swallow the first tab you take straight down since NBOMes are inactive orally (or if not the BA is still super low).

 

[atara]

Purity issues have been around forever with LSD -- DOB showed up back in the seventies. I think it's not the appearance of NBOMes but rather a sudden increase in demand for LSD, as part of the modern psychedelic renaissance, that is driving the market for fakes. After all, if there was enough real stuff to go around, NBOMES wouldn't make it so easily in the market. If it keeps up, LSD producers will find ways to make more -- one way or another.

 

[OrneTTe]

Purity issues have been around forever with LSD -- DOB showed up back in the seventies. I think it's not the appearance of NBOMes but rather a sudden increase in demand for LSD, as part of the modern psychedelic renaissance, that is driving the market for fakes. After all, if there was enough real stuff to go around, NBOMES wouldn't make it so easily in the market. If it keeps up, LSD producers will find ways to make more -- one way or another.

Unless we can get prices and availability for LSD precursors at the same price and ease of phen precursors I don't se that happening. It all comes down to the consumer being proactive and make sure people are not allowed to pass this stuff off anymore. But so many people think that if you eat a piece a paper and get really strong visuals, you ate some good acid plain and simple. Many just want to see some cool stuff and are happy with that I guess.

 

[cjdeadhead]

Yeah one thing I've noticed is that people will sell "tabs" and "doses" without ever saying its real L. Not lying, but highly misleading. Another problem is for people who are newer, if their first doses are an RC they might think the good stuff isn't what they want later on :/ but what you are describing isn't really an issue of purity, at least not what you are describing- its just if someone is lying to you or even knows what they're talking about. If you wanna talk purity, lets talk about how scarce fluff and needlepoint seem to be

 

[Folley]

^ That's the problem with "Molly" and "ecstasy" sold today.. as shown here:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/656666-quot-Molly-quot-Methylone-straight-from-the-dealers-mouth




These nicknames leave a lot more grey area as to what the chemical could be. That's just prohibition at work, though.

 

[kidklmx]

That is always the trick of course but here in the Netherlands standards are very high which demonstrates that there is enough real MDMA to even bitch about minor impurities.

True, but that's MDMA. Even here (NL) it's very easy to get a DOx (no NBOMes to my knowledge) instead of true acid, IF you can find a source. (might not be a problem in larger cities) Not that it's a real problem, Scletoria and Cacti are readily available.

IMO, I think the issue is overstated a bit. I don't have hands-on experience with the US market, but to me it just seems like business as usual. It's a shady market, just how Reagan and his War on Drugs wanted it. (probably why it's so bad in the US) For a lot of people it's really scary to buy drugs now. Though, once the RC market picks up legal lysergamines, true LSD will fade away into rarity, but the quality of the experiences won't. Given that more and more countries are picking up better RC-laws, I think our psychedelic futures aren't as bleak as we think.

 

[psood0nym]

Though, once the RC market picks up legal lysergamines, true LSD will fade away into rarity, but the quality of the experiences won't.

What I've read suggests that to make most active lysergamides you have to make LSD first, which means some LSD will remain detectable in the final product (making would-be lysergamide RCs illegal). As I recall LSM is supposed to be the exception to the rule. Fastandbulbous used to post about it wondering why it never hit the gray market, but I don't know enough about it to say much more than that.

 

[kidklmx]

Yeah that's why I said legal lysergamines, I'm sure they're out there/new synthesis routes will be found

 

[MagicalOrangutan]

I'm just wondering how hard it'd be to get approved to be a test subject for reliable lab made LSD.

 

[KavemanCam]

I've done many drugs... Practice shamanism... And LSD is my least favorite psychedelic that I've ever taken. That's to say I've even ever taken acid. Never once have I gained benefit from being on acid. Maybe its just not my thing.

I'm just wondering how hard it'd be to get approved to be a test subject for reliable lab made LSD.

The only University allowed to use LSD for experimentation in the united states is located in West Lafayette, IN at Purdue University. Most people that I've heard being "test subjects" are usually in their 50s or older, have no family history of mental illness, and almost all subjects are Ph.D. They also go through what looks like the worst imaginable trip scenario, with people examining you and doing tests on you while you wear all sorts of wires to measure this and that. Idk about you but that's not something I could do while tripping.

 

[choco1ate]

is there a chance of lsd actually becoming extinct? seems possible with the flood of cheap, potent rcs like nbomes

 

[psood0nym]

^Doubt it. Until there's an orally active fun and easy-going easy to smuggle legal LSD substitute that's physiologically similarly benign and has a linear dose-response curve that serves to somewhat idiot-proof it LSD will persevere.