They will have to because america has nowhere near enough specialized workers to "bring the production back". Not in a generation. These kind of professions are barely taught in the US at all. China has magnitudes more specialized workers.
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S&T Moderators: Skorpio | VerbalTruist
Is A.I. waiting to take over ?
- Thread starter MedicinalUser247
- Start date
That's the future of labour in every country.
Trump is at least trying to soften the blow with tariffs, which seeks to make up for taxes lost through American multinationals moving labour and [laundering] intellectual property offshore, and with a sovereign wealth fund, which helps if AI decimates the labour force and cripples the tax base, jeopardizing the ability to pay holders of U.S. debt.
And that propaganda about iPhones will become unaffordable if Apple is tariffed is clearly nonsense.
Apple is already struggling to sell iPhones for what they're asking -
Apple's sales fall for the fourth straight quarter despite a strong start for latest iPhones
Apple’s sales remained on a downward slope during the summer. That means a full year of declining revenue at the technology trendsetter with a long history of steady growth that turned it into the world’s most valuable publicly traded company.
apnews.com
More recent -
Apple Reports Q1 2025 Earnings and Lower-Than-Expected iPhone Sales - RetailWire
While iPhone sales did increase, analysts were looking for better results from Apple.
retailwire.com
They're going to raise prices as sales collapse? I'd pay to see that movie.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
This won't be bringing back the industrial revolution of the early 1900's, nor the US industrial era of the 60's and 70's. This has to be done with an eye to the future, building factories for what the future needs, which I believe is still evolving. We won't have the steel mills like we did in our heyday*, recreating the past is only making a duplicate failure of today. The new factory jobs will need to be significantly different in skill and scope.
*I had the opportunity to visit Bethlehem PA, home of Bethlehem steel. It's been long shut down, but the furnaces are kept as a historical site with plaques about the town, it's history and place in the world of steel manufacturing - particularly with WW1 and WW2. It's a really cool experience if anyone gets the opportunity. Both suprisingly small and yet HUGE to American industry. I remember seeing 'Bethlehem Steel' on manhole covers in FL and wondering about them. Really a good experience, and they've converted the area surrounding the furnaces into a nightspot with concerts and events to draw in tourists. Not much else in that area, but I greatly appreciated the experience.
AI is the biggest threat right now to US citizens. I'm frankly terrified of it, not in a Terminator way, but the economical way. It boggles my mind to see all these people oblivious to the fact that it's going to change society in drastically unprecedented ways.
Namely, it's going to be abused by the elite to increase profit margins. Unemployment will skyrocket.
We are already seeing the beginning. IQ is dropping. Literacy is dropping. Technological dependence is increasing. Medication and pharma control is increasing. They are manufacturing a class of slave like proletariat in front of our eyes, and the key tool is AI.
AI will give 1 man the power to effortlessly control millions of people. Billions.
Namely, it's going to be abused by the elite to increase profit margins. Unemployment will skyrocket.
We are already seeing the beginning. IQ is dropping. Literacy is dropping. Technological dependence is increasing. Medication and pharma control is increasing. They are manufacturing a class of slave like proletariat in front of our eyes, and the key tool is AI.
AI will give 1 man the power to effortlessly control millions of people. Billions.
New tech has always come along and replaced jobs that weren't needed after.
AI is not sentient. It's still just a tool, and one that has existed for decades but it just hasn't been useful enough.
AI now is still functionally like Google. It's consuming knowledge from online sources like Reddit and StackOverflow and producing answers based on that. The txt2img models are also trained on a corpus of existing human-made art.
Previous generations of AI petered out because they didn't yet have this massive corpus of human knowledge (the web) available to absorb, and weren't that useful because of that.
Now it's useful enough that it's making it more obvious how useless some people are, and those people are becoming unemployed, and most of them will take it as the kick in the pants they needed to reinvent themselves to survive.
Such is life.
Very true, but never at this scale. It pervades all. Artists, mathematicians, soldiers, customer service, programming, analytics, robot factories, food service... everyone is replaceable by AI.
Old tech made certain skills obsolete, but AI makes humans themselves obsolete, that's the difference.
daturetard
Bluelighter
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Don't forget they'll be Tesla issue bots with musk getting all these government handout contracts, man, this recent media campaign has me really the opposite of sympathetic to the richest man on the planet. Somebody suggested to me the other day that the Tesla vandalism shit was an inside job, which sounds silly, but I feel like it might have happened a few times and then it got blew out of proportion because the left has never physically done something before.
The last lib to kill a guy was Luigi,
And he's a Republican!
Yep, never at this scale. AI will force everyone to up their game because now you're not just competing with other humans but also with AI.
But AI is an inanimate object, it doesn't have a will of its own. So, fundamentally, you're still just competing with humans using a tool (AI) as a force multiplier for their natural talents or advantages
This is the real danger to be honest, and not the economical aspect. The job taking thing is a hype train.. aside from useless cunts like corporate journalists who can't even spell check their own articles, I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as disruptive as is being portrayed.
There's an insane amount of investment money being funnelled into AI stuff, they have to keep up this hype train.. but if you look at what all this money is actually producing, if you take a step back and discard the hype, it's really not that impressive at all. All the AI systems hallucinate wildly, there is no actual reasoning in these systems at all. It's just a clever gimmick. The only places where it excels in a general sense are generating word salad and generating "art".
Unless you specifically program (not prompt) the model for a specific task, it is absolutely useless in business terms. No one is going to trust an AI system that hallucinates to handle important tasks. And the time and money it takes to program the system in the first place will always be greater than the problem it attempts to solve. Programmers know that already, it's an inside joke.. where you spend x10 the time trying to automate a task than actually just doing the fucking thing in the first place.
It will be a bit like the offshoring madness. A lot of stupid executives who don't understand technology will get suckered in by false promises. They will fire lots of people, save some cash, and hand off the work to AI ("All Indian" lmao).. only to find out that the new "yes sarrr!" employees can only say they understand what the hell you asked them to do.. and can't actually do it.
It's only a matter of time before a major company experiences a catastrophic business or operational error, due to AI code or outputs. That will stop the AI hype train immediately, as all the executives will then shit themselves and about face.
Id say the fact that they put an unfinished, flawed technology into everything from cars to nuclear power plants bears considerable risks to backfire badly at some point. Its kinda baffling. Not that most of those design choices wouldn't have a simpler, traditional software solution that doesn't suddenly act up for no apparent reason and which doesn't require magnitudes more energy. I find the Chinese approach interesting. They were able to create a powerful AI without having access to ridiculous amounts of NVIDIA card racks and the like. Maybe they are onto something to actually push AI beyond its current limitations.
I think it's quite telling how they're trying to jam it into all those systems, but something like the banking sector is still predominantly based on COBOL that is over 60 years old. I guess they don't really give a shit if your Tesla drives you off a bridge, but hell will freeze over before they endanger the repository of their wealth.
Well Elon doesn't know anything about anything so he didn't understand why COBOL is used. He doesn't understand a lot about how things work which is why he does so many stupid things such as this. He's operating on the assumption that he knows best somehow without ever having read anything on the subject and ignoring people who do know. Classic tech bro stupidity
daturetard
Bluelighter
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The thing about "have to" is trump didn't HAVE to do any of this shit. He didn't Have To try and reverse amendments. He didn't Have To start a trade war. But it benefits him and his circle jerk money buds. And fucks the rest of us over, just so he can crash the stock market, get rich people to buy stock while it's in the gutters, and reverse the tariffs immediately. But does "have to" do anything, especially not 'bring production back' as if we have people who want to work on steel mills
trump already sent anybody who would have done any producing "back" to El Salvador!
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
They've been raking in obscene profits since the early iPhones. Foxconn is building factories in US for nVidia, no reason they can't do so for iPhone as well.
Also, this (loss of revenue) both explains and dovetails with my recent experience. Went to trade in an old iPhone for a new one and was informed they are now on 3y cycles rather than 2y cycles for trade in.....and my provider (ATT) has added a $6/mo charge on top of my monthly bill for the privelige of turning the phone in after 1.5y
So, longer time between trade in eligibility is certainly going to tank the steady diet of new phone purchases, thereby lowering revenues.The reason is not (just) money though I doubt an American iphone is affordable if you pay everyone involved an appropriate salary. Apple has looked into domestic production long ago and they came to the conclusion that there are nowhere near enough qualified workers in the US to bring the production home. The number of workers with the qualifications necessary is ridiculously small in the US because this kind of work has been outsourced decades ago while China can fill many stadiums with such workers.They've been raking in obscene profits since the early iPhones. Foxconn is building factories in US for nVidia, no reason they can't do so for iPhone as well.
Also, this (loss of revenue) both explains and dovetails with my recent experience. Went to trade in an old iPhone for a new one and was informed they are now on 3y cycles rather than 2y cycles for trade in.....and my provider (ATT) has added a $6/mo charge on top of my monthly bill for the privelige of turning the phone in after 1.5y
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Weather Underground
from the 60's. Marxist group from the left blowing up buildings. Mate, there's another thread somewhere getting into 'who creates violence'. I'll @ you over there. Where we can also look at Antifa and BLM when we talk about the let never getting physical.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
/homer simpson meme "So far!"
So long as we remain operating the tool, and the tool doesn't reach a point of operating us, we'll be ok.
Again "So far". Look at where we've been decade by decade, and the prorgress that occurs over time. Speculation of the where we'll be in the next decade is all over the place.
I was going to go with some manual labor positions that would be protected from AI, but it's really damn hard to see any of them remining untouched. My first thought was a welder, but there are already robotic welders (follow a pre-programmed path across fixtured pieces held together). So what about the quality inspection of those welds? Better cameras, perhaps x-ray, and the Robot Welder could take that over as well. Same for loading the parts for welding, a lot of that is automatic already. All of the welder's work can be replaced...but have you actually saved anything or invested more than was warranted? Your point stands on spending x10 to automate. It's not always the right choice.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Aye, the AI will attempt to execute your commands to the best of their ability. But they won't have any idea of the quality they produce and if it meets the need.
China is a fascinating case. Earlier this thread touched on facial recognition, when China has 4 cameras for every citizen they have more material than anyone on earth for training their AI. And yet, due to overpopulation for awhile (now waning, which is it's own problem) they still left a lot of automatable jobs with laborers. My own company has a factory in China and half the production is automated where possible, but the second half is all manual - partly by the nature of the work, partly because labor is still cheap and plentiful and can be shifted from task to task. On a related note, I'd like to understand how they got DeepThink to do what it does. My gut tells me industrial theft (most of nVidia's current AI materials are coming from China, same with the other AI giants).
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Ah, but how do you GET capable workers? You train them.