INTENSE Cravings after Bupe Kick

[kmatrixg]

I've been posting the last week about my experience kicking suboxone. I did not taper, rather quit CT. 7 days later, the physical effects are fading, but I'm having the worst cravings for the drugs I've ever experienced. This has literally been a night and day transition from yesterday to today. No cravings at all, to these.

They include fantasizing during the day about going to a pharmacy, jumping over the counter and pouring the bottles into my mouth, or looking across the street at a house and wondering if they had drugs in their cabinet... Even sick dreams like waking up to find fentanyl patches stuffed in my pockets, or finding a huge bottle of OC's..

I'm very worried that these cravings will get worse and worse until I end up relapsing. Just today I was literally 2 minutes from a source before I caught myself, pulled over and broke down.

I'm fairly active, occupied and responsible with my nutrition. Does anyone have experience with these cravings after kicking suboxone? What helped alleviate them and how long do they last?

 

[BanginMyLifeAway]

man i feel u on the dreams and just thinking about doing dope and getting it some way ...its hard and u gotta have ya mental right ...i am on day 7 off subs and 2 months off oc/heroin

i dont think the cravings will ever go away...we will always be recovering addicts u just gotta fight thru it

 

[kmatrixg]

I have to get to some meetings. I went on and on about how I was ready to kick the subs and that's what made it easy, but this... I feel incredibly naive right now..

 

[Bojangles69]

Same issue with me although I didn't cold turkey the subs I tapered them, so I imagine its much worse for you.
Oh and not to make light but I almost choked on a peanut (eating peanuts as I type) when I read your pharmacy fantasy, I have that same fantasy anytime I'm in a pharmacy whether I'm high or not. Would imagine its typical with a lot of addicts.

So yeh after a week the cravings hit me hard but the worst was not the cravings, it was the apathy and absolute lack of energy. Walking around like gravity had magnified X10 and what not. That was the hardest for me. I dealt with the shit for 23 days then had my final "fuck it" moment and went back to use. It wasn't an accident or anything I just couldn't cope anymore and had no idea when it would end.

But the point to derive from this post is every single fucking day since I have went back, I have wanted to kick myself in the ass, punch myself in the face, and beat my head against a wall untill it explodes.

I KNOW, and I mean I KNOW how bad that feeling is. Nobody can really imagine how bad it is till they go through it. But please please please fight it. I'm wondering if taking loperamide might trip your receptors for a bit and give you a bit of relief. Only a small amount gets into the brain (immodium, its an OTC opiate) but all you would need with your habit is a very small amout anyway.

I'd be real curious to see though if 4-6mg of immodium would help at all. Other from that man I don't know what to say. You get use alternative drugs like pot as I find pot helps with cravings a lot for me. But this is your brain demanding a certain behavoir from you. The only reason it wants that behavoir is because you assaulted your receptors enough to cause it. Its hard as fuck, it sucks, and I don't think its fair. I say countless times thats the type of experience I wouldn't wish on my worstest enemy and I mean in. Especially where you're at now.

But the good side is if you can somehow manage symptoms are going to improve drastically over the weeks. I think I was right at the point where symptoms were about to get better, but I had a slow dip around days 21-23 where things got exponentially worse. I just couldn't hack it anymore so I gave in.

Only real advice I have is please stick to it. For your benefit, for those around you, for us currend addicts reading your story, we need to know that sobriety is possible, our lives depend on it.
And oh no pressure lol =]
But seriously if you relapse noones gonna think less of you for it. Just as far as you've came you'd be much better off fighting it imo.

 

[kmatrixg]

Same issue with me although I didn't cold turkey the subs I tapered them, so I imagine its much worse for you.
Oh and not to make light but I almost choked on a peanut (eating peanuts as I type) when I read your pharmacy fantasy, I have that same fantasy anytime I'm in a pharmacy whether I'm high or not. Would imagine its typical with a lot of addicts.

So yeh after a week the cravings hit me hard but the worst was not the cravings, it was the apathy and absolute lack of energy. Walking around like gravity had magnified X10 and what not. That was the hardest for me. I dealt with the shit for 23 days then had my final "fuck it" moment and went back to use. It wasn't an accident or anything I just couldn't cope anymore and had no idea when it would end.

But the point to derive from this post is every single fucking day since I have went back, I have wanted to kick myself in the ass, punch myself in the face, and beat my head against a wall untill it explodes.

I KNOW, and I mean I KNOW how bad that feeling is. Nobody can really imagine how bad it is till they go through it. But please please please fight it. I'm wondering if taking loperamide might trip your receptors for a bit and give you a bit of relief. Only a small amount gets into the brain (immodium, its an OTC opiate) but all you would need with your habit is a very small amout anyway.

I'd be real curious to see though if 4-6mg of immodium would help at all. Other from that man I don't know what to say. You get use alternative drugs like pot as I find pot helps with cravings a lot for me. But this is your brain demanding a certain behavoir from you. The only reason it wants that behavoir is because you assaulted your receptors enough to cause it. Its hard as fuck, it sucks, and I don't think its fair. I say countless times thats the type of experience I wouldn't wish on my worstest enemy and I mean in. Especially where you're at now.

But the good side is if you can somehow manage symptoms are going to improve drastically over the weeks. I think I was right at the point where symptoms were about to get better, but I had a slow dip around days 21-23 where things got exponentially worse. I just couldn't hack it anymore so I gave in.

Only real advice I have is please stick to it. For your benefit, for those around you, for us currend addicts reading your story, we need to know that sobriety is possible, our lives depend on it.
And oh no pressure lol =]
But seriously if you relapse noones gonna think less of you for it. Just as far as you've came you'd be much better off fighting it imo.

This post lightened my heart 100x since the way I felt yesterday and throughout today. I remember walking around feeling like I was dragging a cow behind me and began giggling from relief when I read your rendition of gravity feeling 10x stronger...

I did have a relapse today. I took 15mg of hydrocodone because I couldn't stand the lethargy and was incredibly surprised with how it affected me. I feel like hell now and it could very well help with my cravings and not wanting to feel like I do now (disappointment aside). I couldn't stand the way I felt this morning and it pains me to say I only made it 8 days. In fact, you're right. I feel like punching my face in until I knock myself out because my will power was crushed. Believe it or not, this was my first time TRYING to quit. I've been through numerous withdrawals due to no source or no money and whatnot. Besides dropping full-agonist for suboxone, I've never tried.

It gives me an idea of what everyone with decades of dependence goes through numerous times in their life, even though my 6 years is a sliver of pain and struggle for the majority, I can't help but think that nobody is perfect and nobody is ever truly satisfied.

I do have to wonder what the chemical effects of dosing with that 15mg hydrocodone will do to my suboxone withdraw. Is it just a hiccup and then back to the lethargy? Have I made things worse?

Either way, I know I will reap what I have sown; no mercy, no pity.

 

[cire113]

this is exactly why i just stay on suboxone.....

 

[kanyeknievel]

It must be hard, maybe you aren't ready to get off of suboxone yet and this is a sign of that. I don't plan to get off suboxone until I know I will be able to handle not having it and not doing drugs on my own.

Also, find a CBT therapist. There is obvious problems that you have if you need to get high and crave it so much, and you have to get these problems dealt with for you to be able to go without getting high. I know its nots gonna be an instant switch that turns you off of drugs, its gradual and takes time but it is possible. Whether you think so or not, you have a certain problem and because of that u want to use drugs so badly. Therapy and especially Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is very helpful

 

[kanyeknievel]

And also, dont think that there is soemthing wrong with having cravings AFTER bupe. I mean everyone is going to have cravings after bupe I'm sure. Its basically re-bound cravings

 

[freedomchild]

Keep Quitting

I am not stopping bupe, in fact I may be starting it -- however, I do have experience with receptors freaking the f out!

I have quit smoking cold turkey after a 20 year habit -- it took 6 months to stop having cravings that were very strong. It's do-able, I think you just have to have the mind-set that it will stop. It does! Also, that wasn't the first time I'd quit. Keep quitting.

I've stopped Opana and Methadone cold turkey. Seriously, that is really hard -- and I'm still "flat" emotionally from the Opana --- Im about 3 weeks out. I'm not really into moving or living, find I'm depressed. But, it will end.

I'm looking into bupe next week and I've read that some people do have a hard time stopping -- but, the same can be said for things I've already stopped -- cigs, Opana and Methadone.

In a way, and this might sound weird, what helps me on the really bad times, is that coming down and off is a "trip" in itself? Yanno?

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Dude I am right about to be in your same boat. I am on my last few strips of suboxone, tapering kinda quickly.
I have a few k-pins and mirtazipines for sleep, but it's not gonna be pretty. The thing is I have a fucked up support network of people who actually care that I'm going to be withdrawing. I have my mom and dad and sis, that's about it. damn I hear it's worse than full-agonist w/d.

 

[Bojangles69]

/\ Not sure what dose you're on but I would say although some people do have an extremely hard time coming off sub it seems for the majority its actually a lot less difficult than coming off full-agonists. I mean I wasn't on the sub that long but I had tried coming of the most miniscule doses of opium poppy you could imagine and was a total mess. Suppose its the morphine that does that and would assume heroin is just as bad.

But suboxone was not physically that bad in terms of wds. IF you can get low enough on it. What I do when I get low on sub and am an in an emergency type situation is 2 things.

First I don't exactly taper. I cut the dose super low initially, like a 50-75% drop. Its much easier to go from say 4mg straight to 1mg, then taper from 1mg off, then to go 4mg, 3mg, 2mg 1mg off. I'm sure people would feel much more secure doing it the last way, but I always like taking huge drops when I get low, then stablize and taper from the low dose. You basically make the begining harder so you can make the end easier.

And another thing with sub is if you're getting low take those strips and dissolve them in a bit of water and plug them. You can get just about 4times the amount of time from the same amount of sub taking sublingually. Only way I'd take sublingual is if I was prescribed it. But since I always gotta pay street prices I always plug it. Wind up spending 25% as much money in the long run.

Good luck and really it could be worse. Even in the respect that wds last longer they're not as intense so I really don't think its as bad as some say. The ones that have real issues I think are the ones who start of on absurdly high doses like 32mg a day asthats just uselessly raping the shit out of your receptors imo. Even when you get low you're still gonna have to pay the price for those larger doses. Get low fast then taper slow if you're running out, always the best way to go.

 

[Love of the Dark]

And another thing with sub is if you're getting low take those strips and dissolve them in a bit of water and plug them. You can get just about 4times the amount of time from the same amount of sub taking sublingually. Only way I'd take sublingual is if I was prescribed it. But since I always gotta pay street prices I always plug it. Wind up spending 25% as much money in the long run.

Good luck and really it could be worse. Even in the respect that wds last longer they're not as intense so I really don't think its as bad as some say. The ones that have real issues I think are the ones who start of on absurdly high doses like 32mg a day asthats just uselessly raping the shit out of your receptors imo.

^ I do the same, always plug my subs, regardless of whether it's a tab or strip. I hate the ritual of.. you know.. plugging, but in all respect it gets the job done well.

I get awful cravings without it though. I seriously have the most vivid dreams of drug shopping and all that; it's pretty awful. I can only go a day to a day and a half w/o my suboxone, and I normally only take 1/8 of a strip (please note, as mentioned above, 32mg's of sub is a fu**ing ridiculously huge amount), once in the morning and once at night ( 1/4th of a strip everyday ). Perhaps I just lack willpower, or perhaps my addiction to opiates (which my family has a HUGE history of >.< ) is just too strong for me alone. I don't even fiend for suboxone when I don't have it - I just end up using.

So basically, you're not alone. I've been doing this for about 4 months now, and everyday I stay on suboxone is another day it's gonna hurt to be off of it, no matter what. Honestly, if you're going to try and kick the sub, you should taper your dose. It will makes things much much easier in the end, even if you feel a tad bit of discomfort along the way. This is when it's nice to have some support (even if it's just posting to members on BL - we have your back!) and vitamins/supplements to help with sleep at night and energy during the day.

Good luck to you, I wish you the best!

 

[BanginMyLifeAway]

I've been posting the last week about my experience kicking suboxone. I did not taper, rather quit CT. 7 days later, the physical effects are fading, but I'm having the worst cravings for the drugs I've ever experienced. This has literally been a night and day transition from yesterday to today. No cravings at all, to these.

They include fantasizing during the day about going to a pharmacy, jumping over the counter and pouring the bottles into my mouth, or looking across the street at a house and wondering if they had drugs in their cabinet... Even sick dreams like waking up to find fentanyl patches stuffed in my pockets, or finding a huge bottle of OC's..

I'm very worried that these cravings will get worse and worse until I end up relapsing. Just today I was literally 2 minutes from a source before I caught myself, pulled over and broke down.

I'm fairly active, occupied and responsible with my nutrition. Does anyone have experience with these cravings after kicking suboxone? What helped alleviate them and how long do they last?

i feel u man... i been doing a lil bupe here and there mostly to help with my pain cuz it does ... but i kicked opiates..using bupe... id say bout 2 weeks ago i stopped with the bupe,,went a week and all the w/d shit was pretty much gone i was having cravings too...shit i even had em on bupe but i know what u saying ..us recovering addicts will always have to fight the urges ..just be strong bro try to do other things to stimulate your mind and body... keeep busy

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Yeah my dose started at 16mg, doctor prescribed, then I realized that this was way too much for my habit, then I was still getting prescribed 16mg/day but cut it down to 8 mg/day on my own, and now I'm doing 4 mg/day, but the told the doc I was doing 12 mg/day. He wants me to be on it ridiculously long, and doesn't provide any sort of supplemental therapy, it was retarded. I am done with him. He basically runs a drive thru psychiatry service. You just drop in for 10 minutes, get your scripts, then hand him 60 bucks. He asks the SAME FUCKING QUESTIONS every single time. Shit like "You still on such and such?" And it'll be an antidepressant I haven't taken in a year and told him so the previous 5 appointments, and he'll ask me if I'm still seeing this one psych So basically I am going to go from 4 a day to like 2 or so for a few days then I'm going to take a k-pin or two the following days and then just stabilize out with my mirtazipine for sleep and proabably drink a little and smoke some weed a little, but I really need to pick up my excersize level and get into more groups of chill people who don't use opiates, do my thing, and I'll be fine.
I haven't bought drugs off the street for almost a year, the suboxone got me out of the cycle, now I'm getting out of the suboxone cycle. I just want to be free and grow up from this bullshit. I've gone cold turkey before and that lasted 3 months, it was only intense depression/life experiences/a fucked up illness or two/my lack of healthy coping skills that got me back to using OC and such and stuff, but all that has stabilized and I've learned from that shit.
Anyways enough about my pros and cons. Much luck and strength to all those fortunate souls who are escaping the plantation of the modern american chemical wasteland, and you are very fortunate indeed. Don't think of kicking as a wholly bad experience, like the pains of childbirth, the struggles you go through now will pay off immesurably in the end. That's the thing that can get you if you aren't vigilant, the thought that kicking drugs is this terrible thing. It's really not that bad, and it's got much more upside than downside, though it might be hard to keep that in mind all the time.

 

[pensown]

First off, im not new to the boards, just never post. i'm on opiate maintenance (wont get into exactly whats prescribed for what yet) but...

CoffeeDrinker, I think we see the same person... it's an interesting situation dealing with the appointments because I always feel morally conflicted. I think you know what I mean. We gotta talk sometime, for real.

But yeah, I would get strong cravings with bupe, especially if I had relapsed and switched back over. I'd get really depressed for a period, like where i'd get strong feelings where i'd almost randomly start to cry, even though I take meds for that.

 

[smackhead1337]

YO kmatrixg !!!

Big ups for trying to quit bro. I have gone through the SAME THING MYSELF. 100% as you described.

I am 4 months and 3 days sober now off heroin, and I remember vividly going through the same shit as you did...

The first ~2 months is the hardest shit ever bro... It was impossible for me to stop thinking about using.... I understand the minute by minute struggle you are going through.

The only thing you can do for the first ~2 months is KEEP OCCUPIED!!!!

If your brain is focused on doing something or performing a task, Or doing a routine you do every day, you won't have as much time to think about using!!
Trust me it helps soo much...

For me the routine was waking up and then going to the bupe clinic...getting my dose, coming home eating food + watching movies + trying not to think about heroin. Simple right :/ ?

After the 3rd month you start to feel NORMAL IN YOUR OWN SKIN AGAIN <<

How friggen awesome is that? and after 4 months you have WHOLE DAYS without thinking about heroin once!!!!!!

But even now 4 months into my recovery I still wake up having the same dreams as you, thinking that i scored some gear and that its stashed in a bag in my room, and I wake up ecstatic!

Just this morning I woke myself up mid-dream of injecting morphine, I was at my friends place and he had a vial of morphine and I ran to the chemist to buy some needles, but the run to the chemist was long and I was like wait a minuite...then i realized I was dreaming and woke up & made breakfast lol

The dreams have LESS power of you the more you abstain. so do the cravings.

You can definitely conquer this, I am a 'learn the hard way' kind of guy who has pretty much taken every substance i can get my hands on, and I love uppers, downers, lefters and righters all the same!! If I can quit you can quit too :D

Take care man and all the best

 

[shahab6]

maybe you should go back on it again.. I went from 8 mg to 4 mg and after two weeks I started having cravings again, so I went back to 8 again..

 

[kmatrixg]

Smack - awesome to see you've made it quarter a year man! I remember when it seemed like 4 months took 2 years to live with all the dope searching and intermittent withdrawals. It's only been a month since I quit Bupe, but I'm getting a grasp of life again. I even discovered I may have ADD that has never been treated, which was why I self-medicated to begin with - so tackling that has become even more a possibility than ever before.

I've had a couple days in which I took something I shouldn't have... but this is all a battle of depression and apathy. I fucked up big quitting at a high dose, I'll admit that. If you don't have to, don't. Better yet, don't stay on for so long like I did, and I hear so many others doing. Be proactive with your doc and don't stay at a dose if you don't have to; I feel like if I spent 6 months in maintenance and then a year in CBT, things may have been different. But, it's all in the past, can't change any of that shit.

I still have my head up, still have a strong heart even if it may not be showing through my actions. The last 27 days have been good, mentally and physically. Now I can face my problems as an adult and not a teenage mess, making what choice is best, and not what feels best.

By the way - I wanted to add a bit that had to do with the "cravings" aspect...

Had another dream last night - I can taste the Bupe hahahaha... and in a sicker twist, I snorted Heroin which I never did before. Coke, yes, so I guess that's how I knew the feeling, but christ, I could feel the high and everything. It's so goddamn strange how I could feel the rush... In a dream? Come to think of it, when I woke up I felt like I was coming down off a plateau dosage. For me that would be around 300mg OC. It quickly went away, but it was as if I went through 15 seconds of precipitated withdrawal if I overdosed and was pumped full of Naloxone.

Anyone have a similar experience?

 

[OpiateGuy]

Try smoking weed when you start to get cravings.. It will also help you sleep.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

How about trying L-tyrosine and L-tryptophan supplements and melatonin at night. Chamomile tea. Vigorous exercise 30 minutes a day. Those are the things that might help physically to feel good enough to not crave as bad.

Cravings are what makes opiates so addictive. You can ether handle them mentally or not. Some people can and some can't. My husband quit opiates few years ago never looking back and me I can't live a day without them. So there are genetic and nurture differences. To me I don't care what opiate I am on as long as I am on one, but some have less side effects and make me feel more normal, like methadone works excellent for me and bupe at any dose made me a zombie. But with bupe w/d I had little problems, took some tramadol and valium and could come off bupe any time. One day off methadone is insanity. But on methadone I can function normally for some reason and on bupe I just slept and slept and wasn't interested in anything. Now after over a year on methadone you could never tell I take anything. Feel better than before opiates. It's just the stigma that bothers me. But being pain free is so wonderful, I can think of other things. Methadone just like heroin did takes my mental and physical pain away totally almost while leaving me to be just like I was before I touched opiates. Heroin had horrible side effects for the same pain relief. Bupe had a lot less pain relief and same side effects that heroin had. Everyone is different I guess. I just see people write so many negative stigma like things about methadone and to me its a wonder drug. Without it I just wouldn't be who I am today. I feel like I should be like this.