"Intelligence"

[Rated E]

Just pointing out, that I was working with the definition of genius, not intelligence. I think the two things are different.

 

[kittymeow]

but common sense is just that, common.

Lol I could beg to differ! Just catch public transport regularly and you'll realise that it's actually quite rare! :D

 

[Rated E]

^
You just have high standards.

Moar wikipedia definiton:

Common sense (or, when used attributively as an adjective, commonsense, common-sense, or commonsensical), based on a strict construction of the term, is what people in common would agree: that which they "sense" in common as their common natural understanding. Some use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that in their opinion they consider would in most people's experience be prudent and of sound judgment, without dependence upon esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what is believed to be knowledge held by people "in common", so: the knowledge and experience most people have, or are believed to have by the person using the term.

So if the majority believe something that is at odds with what you believe to be sound judgment in a given situation, maybe you are the one of low common sense in that situation, even if your belief makes more "sense" or is the more intelligent belief.

As, from what I can gather in the definition, all that is required is a common agreement, or at least the perception that it is the common agreement, it may not necessarily be correct. Or if the particular issue is a matter of opinion, it might not be that it is correct or incorrect, but rather just that the most commonly held opinion is the common sense one.

 

[eggman]

The clearest indicator of intelligence is how fucked up and depressed a person is.

See: Ernest Hemingway, Thomas Chatterton, Nietzsche, Hunter S. Thompson, Virginia Woolf, Marlon Brando, Sylvia Plath, Sam Peckinpah, William Blake, Tennessee Williams, Eugene O'Neill, Vincent van Gogh, Paul Hogan, etc.

Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Pamela Anderson, Pete Doherty, The Royal Family, Kurt Cobain, Dee Dee Ramone....

 

[kittymeow]

^
You just have high standards.

Moar wikipedia definiton:



So if the majority believe something that is at odds with what you believe to be sound judgment in a given situation, maybe you are the one of low common sense in that situation, even if your belief makes more "sense" or is the more intelligent belief.

As, from what I can gather in the definition, all that is required is a common agreement, or at least the perception that it is the common agreement, it may not necessarily be correct. Or if the particular issue is a matter of opinion, it might not be that it is correct or incorrect, but rather just that the most commonly held opinion is the common sense one.

Aaaah I see then it is indeed common You are a wise one.....Or I could just be stoopid lol!!

 

[eggman]

As, from what I can gather in the definition, all that is required is a common agreement, or at least the perception that it is the common agreement, it may not necessarily be correct. Or if the particular issue is a matter of opinion, it might not be that it is correct or incorrect, but rather just that the most commonly held opinion is the common sense one.

Yeah I see what your saying there and I would have to say I agree, also kind of begs the question of what is common sense?

Does a majorities point of view actually make sense? There woud be plenty of acts through out history that may suggest otherwise, i.e. from witch trials to the holocaust

Is it possible for genius to co-exist with the concept of common sense or are they mutually exclusive?

Is genius different to intelligence, I definately agree that the two concepts are not the same however I feel that one would need to display a certain degree of intelligence to even be considerd genius.

 

[Rated E]

Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Pamela Anderson, Pete Doherty, The Royal Family, Kurt Cobain, Dee Dee Ramone....

haha

Yeah I see what your saying there and I would have to say I agree, also kind of begs the question of what is common sense?

That which is perceived to be as a belief held by the majority.

It's common sense in Australia to drive on the left side of the road, because everyone knows that you are supposed to. It's common sense in America to drive on the right.

It's common sense not to throw a rock directly into the air, because it will fall back down and hit you. It might not be the same on the moon though, because the rock will keep going.

Does a majorities point of view actually make sense? There woud be plenty of acts through out history that may suggest otherwise, i.e. from witch trials to the holocaust

Those things seemed like common sense at the time. If you apply our modern common sense to those past situations, it is kinda different. I mean, German people probably just felt it was common sense that you obeyed the leader.

Is it possible for genius to co-exist with the concept of common sense or are they mutually exclusive?

Well most of the time, the majority holds a view because it is the correct one. A genius wouldn't be too smart to defy all of them. But maybe a genius is someone who figures out which ones we need to change.

Is genius different to intellegence, I definately agree that the two concepts are not the same however I feel that one would need to display a certain degree of intellegence to even be considerd genius.

Oh yea for sure.

 

[lostpunk5545]

Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Pamela Anderson, Pete Doherty, The Royal Family, Kurt Cobain, Dee Dee Ramone....

I understand the point you're trying to make but I think Kurt and Dee Dee were very intelligent at music so should be removed from that list. I'm still in awe every time I listen to a Ramones song that Dee Dee wrote and realise that he wasn't the dumb shit he appeared to be every time he opened his junkie mouth. He was able to express himself much more clearly through lyrics than general speech.

 

[Rated E]

I understand the point you're trying to make but I think Kurt and Dee Dee were very intelligent at music so should be removed from that list. I'm still in awe every time I listen to a Ramones song that Dee Dee wrote and realise that he wasn't the dumb shit he appeared to be every time he opened his junkie mouth. He was able to express himself much more clearly through lyrics than general speech.

Do you think that it's possible that someone helped him write those songs?

 

[mcwally]

As a side note, Schwarzenegger = 135, Dolph Lundgren = 160 and Shakira was 140

Dolph Lundgren, I knew he was not just a big baffoon because my lecturers from Syd Uni in Chemical Engineering department told me they had lectured him and that he has a chem eng degree (like me ) They said it was pretty funny seeing him after a workout at the uni gym squeezing into the bench seats in the theatre for a lecture on thermodynamics or somin lol

One thing it does prove is that you can't just see someone in a muscle man movie or a rugby player or something and say they are just big strong dumbasses with no brains.

Arnie and Dolph have made alot of money and become successful which is quite intelligent, their IQ results also show high levels of intelligence although their behaviour (that we have been exposed to) does not seem to exhibit what our 'common sense' tells us is intelligence.

This is I think an important point regarding the assumptions we make from people's behaviour, communication ability, education and knowledge and extract an evaluation of their intelligence which may be way off their real level of intelligence.

10,000 years ago the 'cave men' were exactly the same species as us, with exactly the same brain/intellect capacity as us but err we would not say on observing them that they were intelligent. Primitive communication, lack of education and knowledge but any one of them may very well be more intelligent than you or I. So yeh nature nurture again

 

[lostpunk5545]

Do you think that it's possible that someone helped him write those songs?

No, who wrote what in what songs is credited in the album liners. Dee Dee wrote a fair slab of The Ramones's early work and continued to write a song here and there after he left the band to pursue his terrible rap career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Dee_Ramone

 

[m4dd0g]

Intelligence, like any organic system, will strengthen when subjected to small doses of entropy
(although growth and maximum potential is still encoded into the genome)

eg. Wind will make plants stronger, a predator will evolve a better prey, antibiotics breed super bacteria, exercise increases muscle mass and solving problems increases intelligence.

Genius on the other hand is rare (by definition) and is a lot less stable. I believe for every person with the potential for genius there are another 10000 poor bastards out there either fixated on nonsensical ideas, damaged behavioral patterns or being torn apart by emotional imbalance.

 

[mcwally]

Intelligence, like any organic system, will strengthen when subjected to small doses of entropy
(although growth and maximum potential is still encoded into the genome)

yes I agree with that also in light of my above analogy with 10,000 year old 'cave man' intelligence, I guess you are saying that when a human brain is developing and it is given alot of intellectual stimuli it will evolve more fully to its inherent (genomic) potential

Alot of it does come down to the definition of intelligence which was the original question/stimuli of the thread. Do we fix the definition of intelligence, even define it differently in different disciplines/scenarios or do you leave it to your own personal interpretation of intelligence.

Wiki - Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn. There are several ways to define intelligence. In some cases, intelligence may include traits such as creativity, personality, character, knowledge, or wisdom. However, some psychologists prefer not to include these traits in the definition of intelligence.

 

[m4dd0g]

^ I agree that they are equal virtues but i dont agree they are the same as intelligence.

I think modern society is gunning for 'intelligence' as the poster boy for best human trait much like 'beautiful' currently is.

Its the possibility that the smart geeky kid sitting up the front of your classroom could be sipping margaritas on his own island while being interviewed for his biography that really starts to mess with peoples values. Especially when the hot stud of the class will end up busking for spare change because he never earnt what he had and never learnt to strive for what he didnt.

I will also put 50 rupees down on 'creative' as the next meaningless form of virtuous glory

 

[Raz]

What I consider a benchmark of intelligence is problem-solving skills, ability to learn and make productive use of the information you've learned, and the ability to think laterally.

Having a good memory is nice, but if you can't apply what you know beyond just recall, it doesn't show intelligence IMO.

I grew up with someone who is functionally illiterate, but taught himself to play guitar just from ear...he's good enough to have played with Archie Roach on national tours, because he uses his brain to figure out how to make the sounds work even though he wouldn't have the first clue how to actually read sheet music. I think that's quite intelligent.

 

[eggman]

No, who wrote what in what songs is credited in the album liners. Dee Dee wrote a fair slab of The Ramones's early work and continued to write a song here and there after he left the band to pursue his terrible rap career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Dee_Ramone

With exception of the stuff he wrote in conjunction and/or stole from Richard Hell. Think Chinese Rocks, 53rd and 3rd

 

[lostpunk5545]

As far as lyrics of his that really blow me away I'm thinking a little later on in their career. Such as Poison Heart. That song so purely encapsulates the feeling of depression for me.

 

[eggman]

wun - to - free - foar!

The dee dee chant

 

[lostpunk5545]

It is my sole belief that it was that chant only that catapulted them into the speeding frenzies that allowed them to burn through countless songs in half an hour without stopping for a breath.

 

[lostpunk5545]

Breathing is not an issue because it requires no part of the conscious mind (whatever the hell that is). In fact thinking about breathing just makes it an annoyance.