Opioids Insufflation oxycontin compaired to Oral Percocet.

[Alotsa]

Hi Hoping some blue-lighters can shed some light on a comparison of a Dose of snorting oxycontin and a dose of oral Percocet.

I am aware both are Oxycodone.

Specifically, say how would 25mg oral Percocet compare with 20mg Insufflation oxycontin?

Thanks
-Alotsa

 

[DexterMeth]

The bioavailability of ingesting oxy orally is easily in the 80 percentile range, if not higher, if I remember correctly.

Snorting is like almost half that.

Use the search engine.

 

[Alotsa]

I thought Oxycontins advantage was its lack of APAP and could be snorted/shot?

Are you saying one could easily snort 20mg of oxy if they have a 20mg tolerance to oral Percocet with out much of a difference?

 

[effie]

The lack of APAP on Oxycontin is good for your liver (don't take more than 3000-4000mg APAP in 24 hours or 2000mg on one dose, use a CWE if you are ingesting more) and APAP-containing pills does mean that snorting/IVing aren't really viable options.

However, this doesn't mean you should therefore snort or IV anything that doesn't contain APAP

Oral bioavailability of oxycodone is higher than snorted - check out the bioavailability megathread in the OD directory for a comparison. Snorting hits you faster, but you get less drug absorbed in total.

 

[Alotsa]

I see, Than all the Scandal and Notions of Oxycontin having such a high abuse potential and the recent introduction of the "OP" version simply had more to do with the availability of getting such high dose's like solid 80mg without having to deal with APAP and CWE's ? Than The ability to Snort or shoot them? This seems clear to me now.

 

[Pjkt2501]

I've been doing a fair bit of research on this myself, as oxycodone is my opiate of choice as well;

Oral BA: 60-87% with a range of ~20% (I'm not 100% sure of the range)
Nasal BA: 40-60% range of 45% (again, not 100% positive, but it's on BL somewhere)

Also: there are conversion tables / websites online where you can input data exactly like this to get comparable dosing data.

 

[effie]

Well, there is a bioavailability megathread in the OD directory (I linked it in my post) which says: Oxycodone-oral 60-87% intranasal- 55-70%
There is also an opioid conversion chart for different opioids

There are more available on the web too; it's always good to check your sources.

 

[Pjkt2501]

I saw the link, but in my rather-hungover state my eyes are a bit glossy currently haha.

Good to know nasal BA is a bit higher, as that's my ROA of choice (though I combine oral and nasal for potency and duration benefits w/ the quick kick-in).

Just from lurking the past 2-3 years though, it's reasonably easy to tell who does and doesn't research what they're saying (and well, it's a message board..).

OP: differences in BA in this case are associated with pH levels - it's a half tick too basic for the nasal membranes, but works a mint in the stomach. Or so I gather.. (That message board thing.. haha).

 

[effie]

^ I tend to go for a 50:50 oral and nasal mix myelf.. I know oral has a higher bioavailability but insufflating is just more fun and I'm all about the instant gratification

I'm actually not sure what the sources are for the OD bioavailability thread, but it's the one I tend to go by.

 

[Diloadid]

I've fallen into different patterns with oxy/roxi. I remember looking at the bioavailability charts and being really confused about the oral bioavailability of OC. I don't think you are going to experience a huge difference between 20mg OC and 20mg Perc. Tolerance wise, you play on a safe ball field.

Edit - Any ROA, I think you would be okay to do either amount of.

 

[THC2LSD]

Honestly, I'm suspicious of this small study(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9062618) saying it's bioavailability is 46%. I makes no sense why it'd be lower. There is almost no first pass metabolism in the nose. It doesn't feel half as strong as oral. It feels stronger. Maybe the difference is more gets converted to oxymorphone? Still, it peaked in 25minutes nasally vs. 1.8 hours orally. I'd say 20mg sniffed feels about like 25mg of perc PO. The snorted oxy will hit much quicker and last shorter than the oral percocet.

 

[suddle1723]

Hi Hoping some blue-lighters can shed some light on a comparison of a Dose of snorting oxycontin and a dose of oral Percocet.

I am aware both are Oxycodone.

Specifically, say how would 25mg oral Percocet compare with 20mg Insufflation oxycontin?

Thanks
-Alotsa

Yes as mentioned above oral bioavailability is a obviously higher than nasal; and yes of course snorting will take effect faster.

However, I remember reading on a website around a week prior (don't remember the site, unfortunately):

That even crushing it into really fine powder only breaks ~85% of the time release. So crushing and swallowing 80mg (or whatever dose) will not release all of the Oxycotin at once. It'll release something around 68mg at first, and about another 2mg every hour or so for the next 12 hours. However when snorted the time release is nearly all bypassed, more so than merely crushing and swallowing; not by a huge margin, but granted more so than orally. Even with the lower bioavailability of nasal ingestion it'll appear very similar in strength due to this left over time release. This explains people swearing the bioavailability should be higher than research indicates, not including taking faster effect which may have a higher peak than oral (I'm not sure if it does cause a higher peak or not) which most likely contributes to people believing its stronger than swallowing.

Anyway, in conclusion however the method, each will yield similar strength, merely comes down to preference. I see a good number of people on this board saying snorting Oxycotin is a waste because the lower bioavailability, I happen to disagree based on the reason above. Granted this is only the case with Oxycotin, if it's Roxycotin (IR oxycodone without paracetamol) you'll definitely get a lesser effect from snorting rather than swallowing from the lack of a time release.

P.S. I've read on some places on this board that all the drip from snorting oxycodone may end up getting absorbed through the stomach eventually anyway, through I'm not expect on that particularly.

Anyway sorry for lack of links, I'll search around and if I end up finding where I read the information above I'll edit my post and add such link. Also feel free to correct me if I got any of the above information wrong; I'm still interested in learning anything I can on this subject.

 

[THC2LSD]

That even crushing it into really fine powder only breaks ~85% of the time release....Granted this is only the case with Oxycotin, if it's Roxycotin (IR oxycodone without paracetamol) you'll definitely get a lesser effect from snorting rather than swallowing from the lack of a time release

I was talking about roxicodone. The stronger effects happen with me regardless of whether the original Oxycontin(which if well crushed is effectively IR) or Roxicodone was used. I feel it in 5 minutes. If anything, snorting ER drugs would be less effective because there's no gastric juices to break it down. But crushed OCs were effectively a high dose concentrated IR opiate preparation.

Honestly, that one small study is not the end all, be all. Jesus didn't come down and say,"Oxys have higher bioavailability orally, thou shall not snort thee!" Look at all the studies on cocaine or heroin's bioavailability. It's all over the place, some say heroin delivers less morphine orally than plain morphine orally, other say nearly all available morphine is delivered. Some studies say cocaine has lower bioavailability snorted than oral, others say almost all the coke's absorbed nasally and almost none orally.

 

[suddle1723]

I was talking about roxicodone. The stronger effects happen with me regardless of whether the original Oxycontin(which if well crushed is effectively IR) or Roxicodone was used. I feel it in 5 minutes. If anything, snorting ER drugs would be less effective because there's no gastric juices to break it down. But crushed OCs were effectively a high dose concentrated IR opiate preparation.

My earlier post was directed towards the original poster, but anyway I definitely wasn't bagging on inhalation of oxycodone if that's what you were getting at, I mean my earlier post even mentioned:

I see a good number of people on this board saying snorting Oxycotin is a waste because the lower bioavailability, I happen to disagree based on the reason above.

But either way I'm on your side - I agree completely. It comes down to preference, some people swear by snorting, others swear by swallowing, all and all it should be left up to the user.

Honestly, that one small study is not the end all, be all. Jesus didn't come down and say,"Oxys have higher bioavailability orally, thou shall not snort thee!" Look at all the studies on cocaine or heroin's bioavailability. It's all over the place, some say heroin delivers less morphine orally than plain morphine orally, other say nearly all available morphine is delivered. Some studies say cocaine has lower bioavailability snorted than oral, others say almost all the coke's absorbed nasally and almost none orally.

Well yeah, I agree with the first part. However regarding cocaine having a higher bioavailability orally than nasally I've never seen that study , but that's beside the point. I don't know about you, but for me at least, snorting a 30mg Roxycotin hits me the same as a 40mg Oxycotin, however when crushed to incredibility fine powdered, and dissolved into warm water and gently and slowly plundered into my nose the 40mg Oxycotin then hits harder.

Honestly, I'm suspicious of this small study(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9062618) saying it's bioavailability is 46%. I makes no sense why it'd be lower. There is almost no first pass metabolism in the nose. It doesn't feel half as strong as oral. It feels stronger.

While I agree that 46% bioavailability seem low, and in my opinion it's closer to 60%. However, if my earlier hypothesis is correct; it's caused by not destroying the entire release system. From what I know, when you crush a Oxycotin, unless you crush each chunk microscopically there's still a time release left in the small chunks, which if swallowed will hit the user harder since there is a million times more surface area being absorbed at once, which could also mean there's a million chunks still with their time release. This of course hits the user harder than a single surface area. The way I've found to get around this, is crushing incredibly fine, and soaking in water.

Maybe the difference is more gets converted to oxymorphone? Still, it peaked in 25minutes nasally vs. 1.8 hours orally. I'd say 20mg sniffed feels about like 25mg of perc PO. The snorted oxy will hit much quicker and last shorter than the oral percocet.

As far as that possibility, I personally think its unlikely since the lower bioavailability. I think the seemingly extra strength comes from the nasal membranes bypassing the time release since it was built to be slowly released inside the stomach, not a nostril. Less bioavailability would also indicate less oxymorphone since from my understanding to get oxymorphone from oxycodone it must be filtered through a certain enzyme in the liver. Who knows through, by it passing first pass and avoiding stomach acid, it could mean more oxycodone in the blood, meaning more filtration via liver, meaning more oxymorphone. It'd be impossible to know for sure unless blood samples were taken from each method.

Of course the entire answer may be as simple as snorting causes a larger spike of oxycodone at once rather than a stronger sustained release of the drug via oral.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Of course the entire answer may be as simple as snorting causes a larger spike of oxycodone at once rather than a stronger sustained release of the drug via oral.

This is it right here. Some people seeking to abuse oxy want to feel "high," regardless of how much gets in their bloodstream in the end. Even if only half as much as is absorbed through the nasal membranes, they go from sober to high very fast, and it's the subjective difference in mindset that makes it seem like it's stronger. They want the "rush." If you have one OC80 left and are trying to keep w/d at bay, you'll get wayyy more relief orally.

This is the same reason why people like smoking weed more than eating it, people are too impatient/wanna get high already.

 

[Diloadid]

People are too impatient/wanna get high already.

This made me laugh, lol. Maybe this is an odd one to throw in here, but I've never stumbled across too much info on people smoking oxycontin and roxi. What is the bioavailability for this ROA? Never tried this, nor do I really plan on it. Just wondered also if the onset is like a rush, if you would feel the onset in each individual hit. Curious..

 

[ErgicMergic]

^Even though smoking pills is horrid for your health, smoking is the fastest ROA available. Even IV takes about 30 seconds I think, to travel through your bloodstream. The lung veins absorb drugs very quickly, and those veins are close to the brain. I think this is why it's much harder to OD with smoking H than IV'ing it.

Don't smoke pills, oxy is meant to be eaten. If you want to IV, make sure you micron filter. IMO pills should just be eaten, unless it's something like Opana/Dilaudid.

 

[Diloadid]

^Even though smoking pills is horrid for your health, smoking is the fastest ROA available. Even IV takes about 30 seconds I think, to travel through your bloodstream. The lung veins absorb drugs very quickly, and those veins are close to the brain. I think this is why it's much harder to OD with smoking H than IV'ing it.

Don't smoke pills, oxy is meant to be eaten. If you want to IV, make sure you micron filter. IMO pills should just be eaten, unless it's something like Opana/Dilaudid.

I don't ever plan on smoking any pills, I just watched that Oxycontin special on Current and dude is torching some foil with I think a 30mg roxi on top. I've always thought this ROA was silly, nothing will change my opinion of that. I will disagree about no pills should be IV'd unless they are opana/dilaudid. I've never IV'd opana, don't particularly plan it either. IV roxicodone is one of my favorites tho'. I have a deep abiding love for it. And I always filter, of the micron variety.

 

[THC2LSD]

I used to think smoking oxys was bullshit too, but many straight up junkies swore it provided an opiate effect just as strong or stronger than oral. So I tried it, and sure enough it worked. It was much more intense than than even snorted. But it was also much shorter lived.I'd estimate bioavailability is about 50% or more smoked. The original OCs smoked better than some of the tar out there, turning into a clear yellow liquid that ran on the foil like H. Even roxies worked, though not as well as the OCs. If pure oxycodone hcl ever were on the streets, it would be very popular to smoke it. Oxy seems closer to meth in terms of heat resistance than heroin.

Even though smoking pills is horrid for your health...Don't smoke pills, oxy is meant to be eaten

How is smoking pills any worse than smoking plant material? I mean tobacco's got a lot of nasty shit. Pill are mostly sugars, which is what most street drugs are cut with. It's probably not that healthy, but it's not as dangerous as IV.

Smoking pills is nothing new. The largest heroin epidemic in history was in China, addicts smoked the easier to get 'Red' heroin pills in lieu of opium, which was more expensive.In soultheast asia meth pills are widely smoked. In India and South Africa bootleg Mandrax pills are smoked with weed. And in Mexico some people smoke Rohypnol with weed. One person was suprised that I took it orally.