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insomnia help

^ Chloroform maybe... codeine base would be soluble in it, as would promethazine but the paracetamol should be insoluble. Not sure how practical this would be though.
 
^ Ha ha, the chloroform isn't for drinking! It just happens to be a useful solvent. You'd have to use some kind of potentially dangerous solvent for the separation, then after you have dried your end product out you can make your own syrup.

But with that kind of work you may as well do a CWE, crush some promethazine tablets and dissolve them in, then add jelly or Kool-Aid or something to make it taste... different.
 
well im trying mirtazapine tonight, had 7.5mg as i heard less is better for sedating, but no idea at what dose its best at.
i do have a tolerance to anti-histamines.
i did find 10ug clonidine (catapres), 2mg xanax and 25mg seroquel got me to sleep with no more RLS than usual and slept great, but catapres and baclofen just gave me low blood pressure lol.

im hoping the mirtazapine works, but might have to throw a catapres and seroquel in for good measure, not feeling too drowsy after an hour of the 7.5mg.
 
^ well mirtazapine is first and foremost an antidepressant. I beleive (could be wrong, it's been a few years since I've been on it and was on 45mg) it has more of a sedative effect at lower doses because of the stronger noradrenergic effects at higher doses. At low doses this isn't so much of an issue and it acts as a good H1 receptor antagonist (antihistamine) hence the drowsiness. Let us know how 7.5mg pans out, you may want to try 15mg though if that has little effect?
 
^ Belarki is right, it is more sedating in lower doses due to higher doses having a greater effect on norepinephrine and the noradrenergic system from what I remember. I don't know at what level this starts to kick in, but some of the sedating effects also come from it's H1 antagonism and you can develop a tolerance to that.
 
I read that there once was a "wonderful" time where the pill was Codeine on one side and Ibuprofen on the other, so all you had to do was split the pill right in the middle.
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Haha yep. Hate to be one of those guys talking about the good old days...but those were the good old days.

Apparently they had trouble mixing the ibu with codeine? Not sure if they tried very hard. The original ones in UK were different colours on each side....they changed it to make it look like one solid white pill but someone discovered the codeine/ibuprofen snapped apart with ease. We even tested each side and only one (the N+ logo side) tested positive for opiates :D good times....could make a packet last a bit longer also, since we weren't losing any in the extraction process.

What's the usual recommended anti-hitamine for rec. use when mixed with opiates? Never really bothered with the drowsy ones but could come in handy if I can't sleep.
 
I was using 15mg mirtazapine to help with sleep, worked good for a couple days until my wife pointed out my voracious appetite. I was literally eating about 4-6 times my normal amount and was just constantly hungry. I stopped having mirtazapine after that. I might try 7.5mg to see how that goes but for the time being, I've actually been able to sleep for about a week without meds so for now, not looking at drugs for sleep.
 
i know mirtazapine is an anti depressant, but did a lot of reading before deciding to try it and from what i read figured it was worth a shot as i cant get non benzo sleeping aids.
i can resist the eating easily enough if i can sleep, but it only made me feel kinda groggy, took the other 7.5mg after an hour but didnt help much more, so had a seroquel and clonidine. ended up sleeping, but was quite broken.

my biggest issue is that i can't turn my brain off at the moment and it just wants to keep going, even after 36 hours no sleep and no stimulants.
i know its stress related, but hoping more sleep makes me stress less so i can brake the cycle.
 
^^^ Ahhh, *comfort hug* there. Stress related stuff like what you've described wouldn't be good. I'm definitely not stressed, I wish I was *if* it was the cause of my insomnia so I then could (begin to) cut it out from my life but it's only happened since the injury/pain meds so I'm 99% sure it's either one or both of those contributing to the insomnia stuff I've been having for 4-5 years.

Hopefully if you dose on mirtazapine again, try doing 15mg straight off which I think you would do anyway. I'm going in to see my GP tomorrow and talk about stuff/how I'm going. Early appointment so no sleeping meds again even if I am not feeling tired until midnight'ish, I don't want to try to wake up at 6-7am and have taken a sleeping med around midnight.

Best of luck with it all, god, it really does suck when you can't sleep and you want to eh? More so if it's been happening for weeks/months/years and whatnot. Hoping you are able to help get rid of some of that stress, stress is _never_ good imho. :)
 
What's the usual recommended anti-hitamine for rec. use when mixed with opiates? Never really bothered with the drowsy ones but could come in handy if I can't sleep.
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Promethazine and doxylamine succinate are good ones, both can leave you groggy the next morning though. You could try and get cyproheptadine, which is sold as Periactin. It comes in a box of 100 4mg, two or three of those should do the trick and it has a short life so less chance of being groggy the next morning. I'm going to try and pick up a box of this stuff soon. :)
 
man fuck the half life on the mirtazapine lol
even if it did knock me out, i wouldnt be able to work at all the next day anyway cause it made me feel so weak, can't have that as i usually do manual labour.
i'm trying to find something i can use semi long term so i can get back to working without fucking up my sleep or fuck me for work.

hard i know, but i guess seroquel and clonidine are working ok at the moment, hopefully the psychiatrist will help alot also.
 
i still had trouble sleeping, but i felt like i was on auto pilot for the whole day, so its no good for what i need.

i have read that stilnox CR has been used for long term treatment and is favored over the standard acting version and other Z sleeping aids in long term use.
has anyone discussed this with an australian GP?

would be interesting to hear their thoughts.
 
I had a great 6-7 hours sleep on mirtazapine 2-3 days in a row on 15mg but the ENORMOUS appetite I got with it made it totally unsuitable. Being "struck down" with my fucked shoulder (I can't do anything more than a 'walk' for a bit as either my shoulder pops out and/or I'm sweating like I'm running a marathon), so I do 'just' pool most mornings and go for walks (pushing the pram as that holds my shoulder as it needs support of some kind or it 'drags' and hence the feelings of running a marathon just from walking and stuff) so I'm not exercising anywhere near I used to pre injury so this plus almost 40 means lots of food in = stomach/general size increases lots... Wish I could exercise more but it 'upsets' my shoulder/injury and pain increases blah blah.

But anyway, I'm off to the GP this morning. I want to talk about sleep, insomnia and see what else I/we can look at. Hopefully he has some idea/experience of working with insomnia as we've tried like 4-5 things but nothing really is suitable, either I'm way too groggy the next day or I need 4-6 times the B.D he recommends, like temazepam. Only stuff I've personally sourced that worked good were xanax bars (lol), hoping to work to that one day as I easily can not abuse benzos, mates who have given me some I can keep them over a period without necking them all in 1-2 days. Anyway, see what he sees today.

Oh yeah, I talked about stilnox with him last time as it's something my old/Melbourne GP used (where I also needed like 5 tablets the first night I used it when BD said one a night so hence I stopped it) and mentioned this, he just laughed and said 'Yeah, not a drug that is in the good light due to all the bad media attention" but we didn't go into any detailed discussion about various meds which I'm going to try to use today for. :)
 
misk said:
i still had trouble sleeping, but i felt like i was on auto pilot for the whole day, so its no good for what i need.

i have read that stilnox CR has been used for long term treatment and is favored over the standard acting version and other Z sleeping aids in long term use.
has anyone discussed this with an australian GP?

would be interesting to hear their thoughts.
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I've used the old fashioned stilnox, the CR, and zopiclone which is also a z-drug for longterm periods like a few months to 6-7 months everynight. I wouldn't recommend it if you can afford it, and better to try antihsitamines. Personally I find once you get used to them (will only take a week) the grogginess goes. I;ve been able to go to the gym and lift heavy whilst still feeling a little groggy from them, so I imagine you would be in a similiar situation for manual labour. Of course, if you have hardcore insomnia at the moment, antihistamines might not be strong enough.

My experience with using z-drugs every night:

Your tolerance starts to rise after a few weeks. I found once you start needing several pills to sleep that is when the odd side effects might occur.

The sleep you get on them isn't really refreshing because it disrupts REM sleep which is pretty important for you body and mind to refresh itself. still alot more refreshing than not sleeping:\

I noticed no problems when stopping taking them abruptly except maybe some rebound insomnia. There is evidence though that they can cause similiar withdrawals to benzos, though I certainly haven't experienced this.

waking up in the morning can be difficult on them, harder than from natural sleep.

After a while of taking them, you may find you wake up in the middel of the night and can't get back to sleep unless you take more.

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i still rank z-drugs to be the most effective sleeping aid I have tried. much better than benzos, and antihistamines. If i were you I would try a script, but try not to use them longterm if you can, because they are no replacement for proper sleep. BTW, antihistamines don't appear to inhibit REM sleep so after the grogginess wears off you feel more refreshed.
 
well i need to take something that will enable me to get back to work so i can earn some money and not stress about money issues, which is a big cause of my insomnia atm.
im in a bit of a grey area where i can't apply for a disability allowance so i can treat my medical issues, but i cant really work because i might be fine one minute then have a month or two where i cant work.

i can get by on non-rem sleep fine, but i cant handle feeling out of it like the mirtazpine made me. it defeats the purpose cause i cant function properly anyway.

i havent been able to find anything that supports long term use of zopiclone, do you have any info on it?
 
i havent been able to find anything that supports long term use of zopiclone, do you have any info on it?
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On the PBS it has a Restricted Benefit notice saying 'For the short-term treatment of insomnia.'

The Wikipedia page (that site is a good resource for medicine information) also states that it is indicated for short term treatment as long term use can lead to tolerance, dependence, withdrawal, etc...
 
^ for me personally, I haven't had any problem with using it longterm (ie. for 3-6 months) in terms of addiction. Tolerance is another story. And I can't assure you of you not having a problem with addiction. To be honest, I wasn't even aware z-drugs were addictive until about 6 months ago when a doctor told me. All these years I had been taking them daily, sometimes 4 pills a night, and no doctors thought to inform me about it.

Misk: when you say longterm, how long do you mean? A few months plus, or indefinately?
 
nah i'd say 6 months or so max - if not sooner.
i just find it really hard to discuss this with a doctor and convey how much of an issue this is for me without them thinking im fishing for drugs.
i have a psychiatrist appointment this weekend, hopefully he will understand and have some options of some sort for me.

i just have it rough that if my legs arent hurting from RLS, sometimes i can't sleep anyway, so find it really hard to hold a job at the moment. i would prefer to treat the actual cause, but cant do that when all i'm doing is stressing bout shit cause i haven't got a job, so short to long term (ie longer than a month) help with sleep would help as long as it doesn't fuck me up in other ways.

atm, seroquel isn't exactly the best option as it effects me mentally more than say z drugs and can cause RLS, but seems they are happier for me to take that than actual sleeping pills lol
 
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