Important poppy seed tea health warning

[Dr.Strange.Love]

I've been a poppy seed tea user for 4 years now, it was my replacement for pharmaceuticals, and for these 4 years it was a wonderful thing. But through this time, I have always wondered what kind of health risks I could be doing to myself drinking that nasty yellow sludge containing all those other bacteria and chemicals on those seeds, and I think I may have found an answer and I wanted to share it with everyone.

It actually started in an upper level microbiology class in university a week or so ago. We did a lab where we cleaned and isolated and analyzed bacteria that grow on household spices. This scared the hell out of me since all I could think of was poppy seed. And there were TONS of bacteria and fungus growing on the cumin and pepper we analyzed. In addition, there was the fungus genus Aspergillus, which produces a toxin called aflatoxin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aflatoxin

Now this is a nasty, nasty toxin and carcinogen. I mean nasty. It can destroy your liver and give you liver cancer in pretty small doses, and after doing some research I discovered most poppy seeds contain detectable levels of this chemical, but at safe doses at NORMAL serving sizes. Now everytime I drink poppy seed tea, I'm injesting like 1.5 pounds of seeds worth of this chemical every time. Damn. I've probably injested grams of this. So...I don't know what's next. I quit drinking PST as of 4 days ago, and I've spent the last two nights up in a daze sweating through my clothing and throwing up. Good times, but I'm not going to waste away my liver anymore. So just a warning to everyone. Do some research on your own if you like, but my conscience told me I should make everyone aware here of my discovery.

 

[Czar420]

Wow. I'm on day four without pod tea right now. I got to say it sucks but I feel better than day 3. Hopefully I wont have to use it again. This report couldnt have come at a better time for reassurance.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

damn! what about PPT?

 

[garuda]

I've got bad news for you, you better cut out all natural cheese consumption as well. In fact any fermented product has the potential to contain the toxin.

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/50/10/1708

Have you had your house extensively tested for Aspergillus mold? Especially older structures, have you tested any dry grains or seeds that are used as dietary staples?

Here are the facts, many cultures around the world do not use poppy seeds as a spice or garnish the way they are used in the US. They use it as a actual food, some east european pastries call for up to a pound of poppy seed in a single pastry. Poppy seed oil has been used in food for thousands of years as well. In addition poppy pod tea has been used almost continuously by humans going on thousands of years. You would think by now some cancer trend would have been noticed among these people would you not?

Its interesting and not unknown, anyone who uses pods has found ones with aspergillus in them. Something to consider, but you must also consider all the other possible sources in the diet before jumping to crazy conclusions.

EDIT: Most pharmaceuticals contain APAP, which will destory your liver much quicker then some trace amounts of mold toxin. I can just see this getting passed around the tea sphere as a panic story but keep in mind between pharms and street heroin seed and pod tea are by far the safest way to consume opiates health and legal wise.

 

[Czar420]

i assume its abot the same...

 

[sonic]

Good post garuda. You can't take one semi-scientific experiment and then form a theory from it. While I don't doubt there's mold and bacteria in poppy seeds, it is a fact that all parts of the poppy plant have been used and consumed for thousands of years by people all over the world. Poppies and opium have a really good track record for safety as long as you dose appropriately.

 

[inSaMity]

Yeah, i would take that with a grain of salt. And how much of that shit is probably destroyed in the tea making process??? And how much of what other kinds of bacteria are all over every single thing you touch? Do you remember to wash your hands everytime you eat or even touch your face or wipe your nose? I find it's a bit pointlessly nerve-racking to worry about microrganisms in my everyday life.

 

[Czar420]

I've probably got the "black mold" in the walls of my house...

 

[CloudyHazeD]

As long as nobody is using pods/seeds that are visibly moldy......then I think this falls into the catagory of pointless worry, along the lines of what garuda points out in his post

 

[Dr.Strange.Love]

I've got bad news for you, you better cut out all natural cheese consumption as well. In fact any fermented product has the potential to contain the toxin.

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/50/10/1708

Have you had your house extensively tested for Aspergillus mold? Especially older structures, have you tested any dry grains or seeds that are used as dietary staples?

Here are the facts, many cultures around the world do not use poppy seeds as a spice or garnish the way they are used in the US. They use it as a actual food, some east european pastries call for up to a pound of poppy seed in a single pastry. Poppy seed oil has been used in food for thousands of years as well. In addition poppy pod tea has been used almost continuously by humans going on thousands of years. You would think by now some cancer trend would have been noticed among these people would you not?

Its interesting and not unknown, anyone who uses pods has found ones with aspergillus in them. Something to consider, but you must also consider all the other possible sources in the diet before jumping to crazy conclusions.

EDIT: Most pharmaceuticals contain APAP, which will destory your liver much quicker then some trace amounts of mold toxin. I can just see this getting passed around the tea sphere as a panic story but keep in mind between pharms and street heroin seed and pod tea are by far the safest way to consume opiates health and legal wise.

I appreciate your response, but I think you missed my point a bit. I'm well aware of Apergillus in cheese and milk, as I'm well aware of the dangers of APAP. But Aflatoxin seems to me to be a much larger danger than I previously thought. There seems to be a high correlational relationship between aflatoxin intake and hepatocellular carcinoma, or liver cancer, as well as hepatitis B. I can't find the link at the moment, but in countries where unrpocessed corns and nuts and herbs that have been shown to contain higher levels of Apspergillus than other spices have a much higher rate of HCC than other countries. Obviously this is only correlational, but it is still important.

I only bring this up because the VAST quantities we injest, and this fungus and chemicals would be washed away from the seeds in the water. Of course the chemical is not dangerous in normal doses, but the pounds and pounds of these seeds that we go through I believe could make it a health hazard. Here's a few links I checked out really quick just through google:


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1764136

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/aflatoxin/aflatoxin.html

http://www.aflatoxin.info/aflatoxin.asp

When we injest the coating of those seeds, we are injesting a lot of stuff in a lot larger quantities than a normal person. I am saying that yes, many countries use various seeds and nuts in excessive quantities, but those countries also have a much higher percentage of liver cancer occurances than "Western" countries, and aflatoxin is implicated in that high level. So I don't know, I really do hope that its not a problem, I would sleep a lot better at night. But to me it seems like it could be a problem.

 

[edarrin]

[hepatitis B./QUOTE]

Hepatitis B is caused by a blood born virus. The only way you could possibly catch hepatitis B from pods is if someone bleed on them. Even then the processing and stomach acid would destroy the virus.

I was wondering about the quantity of pesticides you may be injusting as well with that speaking of carcinogens.

Still probably safer than street heroin.

 

[Biphasic]

Aspergillus is damn near everywhere; sterilize a piece of bread, pasta, or rice with ethanol and then stick it into an agar plate and there's a pretty good chance it'll end up growing aspergillus in it.

Unless you're buying peanut butter from Syria or Azerbaijan, there's not really much to worry about.

 

[Madmike]

Get it to near boiling point, keep it warm , cool it fast and drink

Best way to keep bacteria away

 

[thugpassion]

The op sounds alittle parinoid.............. its also possible to get hit by a bus crossing the street .

 

[bearmtn]

Tooooo Paranoid my man..... Just drink your tea, they've been doing it fur years and eons. Next thing ya know folks will be wanting to sterilize their hashish and bud before use.

 

[Surf N Satch]

Damn, thanks for sharing the info man. i havent drank PST in about a year, but its good to know that it has some potential health risks.i dont think ill be drinking it again.

 

[Czar420]

Anything organic runs the risk of carrying bacteria. Thats why humans should cook food.

 

[frogman84]

Shit... it is good that you bring that to our attention Dr.Strange.Love.

Whatever the ultimate truth about the matter is, it is always gonna be better to know as much as is possible about anything you put into your body.

I did a little bit of reading and found this (i am not attempting to say there is no health risk - cos i have NO IDEA if there is or not - but rather trying to determine whether i still wanna drink that stuff... since i pretty much enjoy it.)

FROM http://www.aflatoxin.info/aflatoxin.asp

Heat:
Aflatoxins in dry state are very stable to heat up to the melting point. However, in the presence of moisture and at elevated temperatures there is destruction of aflatoxin over a period of time. Such destruction can occur either with aflatoxin in oilseed meals, aflatoxin in roasted peanuts or aflatoxin in aqueous solution at pH 7. Although the reaction products have not been examined in detail it seems likely that such treatment leads to opening of the lactone ring with the possibility of decarboxylation at elevated temperatures.

At the same website it also states...

Natural occurrence:

Food products contaminated with aflatoxins include cereal (maize, sorghum, pearl millet, rice, wheat), oilseeds (groundnut, soybean, sunflower, cotton), spices (chillies, black pepper, coriander, turmeric, zinger), tree nuts (almonds, pistachio, walnuts, coconut) and milk.


If you were to rinse 500g of regular household rice in hot water and treat it in the same way as you do poppy seed tea - i reckon the resulting brew would be pretty milky with a heap of residue from the rice and have a distinct and revolting flavour to it when drinking. SO: when eating something like a risotto you would have all of the residue from the rice included with your meal, and be ingesting all of the Aflatoxins present...

EXCEPT: This example with rice isn't a completely similar situation to brewing poppy seed tea, because most likely the poppy seeds won't be kept on a constant boil for ten minutes or so.

A daily food intake consisting of raw nuts,a few meals of rice, bread, spices and what not must surely be getting pretty near to the sorts of levels you would expect to find in a dose of poppy seed tea. (but then doubling your daily consumption of aflatoxins might be significant enough to cause the problems stated).

I dunno... i am contemplating boiling a batch of tea for a few minutes and trying to determine whether it remains potent or otherwise? What do you guys reckon?

It does state that at high temps and high moisture levels the aflatoxin breaks down

 

[SpellmanT7]

I dunno... i am contemplating boiling a batch of tea for a few minutes and trying to determine whether it remains potent or otherwise? What do you guys reckon?

It does state that at high temps and high moisture levels the aflatoxin breaks down

I reckon you go for it - on the grounds that I found this thread after posting a question regarding the hygiene issues surrounding poppy pods.

If the tea remained potent and the aflatoxin levels were reduced, then why not have everyone boil their tea longer.

A small loss in potency would be worth it if the aflatoxin levels decreased.

 

[FractalStructure]

according to your microbology lesson, wouldnt this apply for harvested opium as well, since it comes from the pod, the same place the seeds come from. Yeah i mean, if you go too far, you realize..."hmm this roll im about to drop could have been in 10 assholes by now, and think of all the dirty hands that touched it, and im EATING it...eww." It is then that rectal administration starts to look more appealing =P

And our bud, im sure that contains some sort of bacteria... but thats just my view on being ultra hygienic, but the OP posted some interesting and disturbing info, altho i think you got other things to worry about with PST... one of them being thebaine, and other alkaloids or "opiates" technically... point being that a regular dose of PST can and has (for me, and another friend of mine) caused a state of complete delerium, and i am not opiate-naive. Im not dicksizing, my tolerance is about a 60mg dose (ir) to start off with oxycodone, around 100-120mg with morphine, either way thats not an insane tolerance, but i used to be able to get high off of 5mg hydro, 60mg of codeine, and once even half a 5mg vicodin did me nicely, but this is when i first started using them. But the point is, its not like this small PST dose was a result of "taking too much morphine"... I felt a bit opiated, but in a strange way, different than usual at first, and it turned into full on delerium for about 12 hours... and ive also done my share of psychedelics (currently my favs are 2ce, lsd, and ketamine, tho its not a true "psychedelic in the tryp/phen sense).

So ive always wondered what chemical(s) caused that reaction... i always figured mostly thebaine, but prolly a bunch of other lesser known "opiates" (and i dont mean chems that neccesarily bind to mu, but it did feel a little like butorphanol, which i believe is a kappa agonist and for me, causes a similar sense of delerium so i stay away) that act on other opiate receptors in strange ways. Anyone know what the chemical(s) are likely to have been? And after that I never did PST again, I wonder if theres any way of making sure of avoiding those experiences...

I figure there isnt, which is why i stick to my pharms and natural opiates (i dont do H, but I may have smoked black tar accidentally before )

Not trying to hijack this thread, fyi, just asking a quick question since this is sorta related.