Immigration discussion

[Jnowhere]

You all think this is about race. Take off your ridiculous blinders and realize you have invited the enemy of the West into and made them your bitter hatefilled neighbors and wait and see what happens. Give it time.
But remember once the population gets to a certain point. It is only a matter of time until Europe will be just like the Middle East in Many ways.

You all are gonna love it when The Muslim BrotherHood or a Similar Party is elected and in Control of many of The Countries in Europe. Once they are citizens and have large families it is only a matter of time and however many generations till they get power and turn Europe into a Muslim Theocracy. They will also vote to take away money and power from the native population.

But that is what Europe wants and then that is what it is going to get.
Future generations will be reminding their kids to not forget to bring their prayer rugs when they go to school or there could be serious consequences. At least all drug users will mostly be purged. I wonder at what age a drug offense will carry a death sentence?

Your ancestors will curse the fools who did this, but I will be dead and Europe is so smug and arrogant. LMDAOIIC= Laugh My Dead Ass Off If I Could.
I wonder if America will be still around; if Europeans will be seeking asylum from their ancestral homelands here?

Lo seinto, ya tenemos demasiados
gringos aqui!!
Ustedes, los gringos, no van a volver a colonizar este continente!!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Yes it is stupid. Yes capitalism isn't sustainable in the long run but we do not have a better alternative to switch to. If we just let it happen things will go to shit. BTW, I am not talking about exponentially increasing populations. I am simply talking replacing one generation with another. One father and mother must roughly have 2 children or the model becomes unsustainable in the long run. I am not really talking about solutions either. I am merely pointing out how fucked we are gonna be. I don't think there are many solutions in a liberal democracy. You can't force people to marry and have children.

You can make em infertile with chemical additives. ... -Isothiazolinone s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isothiazolinone used to be in everything.
Or some shit like that, all in your commercial shit till recent/ or still.
It was there so you could leave it in the sun standing,
and still nothing could live in it.

Other option prevent people from finding the right match partner DNA,
by having woman/ man deodorant themselves. No Pheromone s !
And by keeping woman body s pretend to be pregnant.
By taking the Birth Control Pill.

No female body that feels its pregnant will seek the perfect partner.
To mate, so their DNA is a perfect match for producing the best outcome.
They historically will seek a protector att. Just theorising !

But all Hormone disrupt-or s allowed to day will have their effect,
just takes a while to take place. As there effects on fertility and sexuality.
Will take longer to manifest then in a Fruit-Fly.

 

[tryptakid]

You all think this is about race. Take off your ridiculous blinders and realize you have invited the enemy of the West into and made them your bitter hatefilled neighbors and wait and see what happens. Give it time.
But remember once the population gets to a certain point. It is only a matter of time until Europe will be just like the Middle East in Many ways.

You all are gonna love it when The Muslim BrotherHood or a Similar Party is elected and in Control of many of The Countries in Europe. Once they are citizens and have large families it is only a matter of time and however many generations till they get power and turn Europe into a Muslim Theocracy. They will also vote to take away money and power from the native population.

But that is what Europe wants and then that is what it is going to get.
Future generations will be reminding their kids to not forget to bring their prayer rugs when they go to school or there could be serious consequences. At least all drug users will mostly be purged. I wonder at what age a drug offense will carry a death sentence?

Your ancestors will curse the fools who did this, but I will be dead and Europe is so smug and arrogant. LMDAOIIC= Laugh My Dead Ass Off If I Could.
I wonder if America will be still around; if Europeans will be seeking asylum from their ancestral homelands here?

Lo seinto, ya tenemos demasiados
gringos aqui!!
Ustedes, los gringos, no van a volver a colonizar este continente!!

I think that it's often about a blurry mixture of race and class warfare. There are wealthy elites that seek to use whatever the topic du jure is to keep everyday people at odds. When George Floyd happens, it's about race - and when tech layoffs are happening - it's about class. It's all irrelevant, it's about power, control, and a lack of vision that is able to be sold to any specific monoculture. Instead of all of us tuning into Walter Cronkite each night and getting the nightly account of the day's events, we're tuning into a chimera of culture that spans old media, new media, audio podcasts, longform articles, troll tweets on X, memes, and increasingly AI fueled newsmania. I've noticed the number of clearly fake posts being shared in forums that I frequent (ones that until recently were fairly non-political). It's everywear and it's increasing. The intersection of tech and political will has never been more closely enmeshed and deregulated.

Crypto was easier for me to buy this week via my regular bank account than it ever has been before - subtle changes to the paypal algorithm have allowed me to spend much more per day on debit purchases than my bank account would allow even a month ago. Coincidence?

All of this stuff is designed to further destabilize the working/middle class, trimming the fat and then spinning it into class warfare, or woke/anti-woke, or whatever mimetic narrative trends on social media.

That's the real mind virus.

 

[Jnowhere]

Ever wonder why is all political discussion from both sides now a days always focus on dividing people rather than uniting them?

That's because when you divide people up they don't have enough power to resist those trying to gain power by portraying themselves as your ally.
Think about it ...

Sorry, but all the European's I have chatted with; paint a picture of wanting to separate themselves and having contempt for Western values and way of life.

I guess maybe the native people of Europe should just surrender and fall in line and do whatever these refugees or asylum seekers want.
They get to dictate how Europe is run now?

Give it time they be will be in control and Europe will United under a Dictatorial Islamic Theocracy; complete with Sharia Law and total repression of everything the Europeans believe in and also what they don't. Lol

 

[tryptakid]

You guys are kind of proving my point in that large-scale socialism inevitably leads to totalitarianism. It’s just a matter of how long it takes.

I have always felt that it does. I'm wary of communist movements for this reason.

I'd argue in favor of social democracy based on capitalism....I think America would be great with a bit more regulation, single payer healthcare (and I'm a billing provider - it would certainly make my life easier than having to enroll with 10 different insurance payers who all pay me the same thing for my services but have slightly different requirements to remain credentialed), secondary education and graduate education that isn't a mortage to attend AS well as similar access to vocational/technical training through well regulated training programs, child care that is offered or funded through the state, and some degree of robust disability coverage for those who struggle with work.

I think that in general people like to have a meaningful way to spend their time, through work or similar ways and the idea of most people being freeloaders is sold by/to people who themselves would probably be freeloaders if given the chance. I've always worked and likely will always work because working gives me a sense of purpose and a pathway for self improvement. I just wish I didn't have to burn myself out doing it just to maybe afford a piece of property in order to feel stable enough to have a kid.

The kind of radical transformation that is currently happening reminds me a bit of the types of utopian socialist movements that blossomed into authoritarian communism circa 1910s/1920s. The alt-right has picked up the same populist fervor that Eugene Debs and Leon Trotsky or more recently Pol Pot tapped into - turning rural anger into political will, and then into widespread suffering. Mao did it, Ho Chi Minh did it, Castro and Guevara did as well.

Turn the people in the countryside against the city dwellers, and build reeducation camps.. Claim the other side will do it first if you don't get it done.

We'll see where things go, but it's pretty clear to me that we're not heading towards a return to 1990s era normalcy. The second cold war is afoot.

 

[fairnymph]

I have always felt that it does. I'm wary of communist movements for this reason.

I'd argue in favor of social democracy based on capitalism....I think America would be great with a bit more regulation, single payer healthcare (and I'm a billing provider - it would certainly make my life easier than having to enroll with 10 different insurance payers who all pay me the same thing for my services but have slightly different requirements to remain credentialed), secondary education and graduate education that isn't a mortage to attend AS well as similar access to vocational/technical training through well regulated training programs, child care that is offered or funded through the state, and some degree of robust disability coverage for those who struggle with work.

I think that in general people like to have a meaningful way to spend their time, through work or similar ways and the idea of most people being freeloaders is sold by/to people who themselves would probably be freeloaders if given the chance. I've always worked and likely will always work because working gives me a sense of purpose and a pathway for self improvement. I just wish I didn't have to burn myself out doing it just to maybe afford a piece of property in order to feel stable enough to have a kid.

The kind of radical transformation that is currently happening reminds me a bit of the types of utopian socialist movements that blossomed into authoritarian communism circa 1910s/1920s. The alt-right has picked up the same populist fervor that Eugene Debs and Leon Trotsky or more recently Pol Pot tapped into - turning rural anger into political will, and then into widespread suffering. Mao did it, Ho Chi Minh did it, Castro and Guevara did as well.

Turn the people in the countryside against the city dwellers, and build reeducation camps.. Claim the other side will do it first if you don't get it done.

We'll see where things go, but it's pretty clear to me that we're not heading towards a return to 1990s era normalcy. The second cold war is afoot.

It sounds like you’re a fan of the current Scandinavian model, but that won’t work for a much larger heterogeneous country like the US.

 

[tryptakid]

Sorry, but all the European's I have chatted with; paint a picture of wanting to separate themselves and having contempt for Western values and way of life.

You tend to chat with a lot of people who share your values/views - as someone who moderates a forum you frequent (and frequently post on).

You like chatting with me, especially when it's not about politics, but in general when things come up that are political and we start discussing them, you often seem to expect me or interpret what I say to be antagonistic or somehow directed at you to prove a point. That's the kind of thing that can lead to mostly associating with people who share familiar views, while mistrusting anyone (such as myself) who might share opposing views. It leads to a very narrow view of how things might work. I spend a lot of time with people who voted for Trump. I like hearing their views because I like them and I want to know how they see things, even if I don't agree with their conclusions. It helps me to consider my own views/biases as well, and I become suspicious whenever I'm around people who are mostly sharing the same opinions as I hold. The people I am closest with in real life tend to hold the same types of views, but in general, I like to mix it up.

I guess maybe the native people of Europe should just surrender and fall in line and do whatever these refugees or asylum seekers want.
They get to dictate how Europe is run now?

Give it time they be will be in control and Europe will United under a Dictatorial Islamic Theocracy; complete with Sharia Law and total repression of everything the Europeans believe in and also what they don't. Lol

It seems to be headed in the opposite direction honestly.

 

[tryptakid]

It sounds like you’re a fan of the currentScandinavian model, but that won’t work for a much larger heterogeneous country like the US.

I've long felt that the US would need to become more of a federation if the type of government I'd like to see were to be implemented.

What works for Bostonians is not going to work for rural Alabama, and vice versa.

 

[fairnymph]

I've long felt that the US would need to become more of a federation if the type of government I'd like to see were to be implemented.

What works for Bostonians is not going to work for rural Alabama, and vice versa.

So very little federal power, give states most of the power?

 

[tryptakid]

So very little federal power, give states most of the power?

or maybe some kind of small blocs - I live in New England so I could see us and New York/PA being a bloc. then maybe a mid-atlantic bloc, a south east/midwest/southwest/west/PNW... I don't know how you'd draw the lines, but essentially some arrangement of like minded states that have similar customs/regulations/laws while others affiliate differently.

Again, I'm not a top down thinker - I think about systems from a high level/thematic perspective (or from a very individual perspective - it's why I studied clinical social work and public health policy in separate master's programs). I'd defer to my wise peers to thinking about how best to organize the state should it ever come to a place where I were somehow involved in drawing this stuff up lol

 

[fairnymph]

or maybe some kind of small blocs - I live in New England so I could see us and New York/PA being a bloc. then maybe a mid-atlantic bloc, a south east/midwest/southwest/west/PNW... I don't know how you'd draw the lines, but essentially some arrangement of like minded states that have similar customs/regulations/laws while others affiliate differently.

Again, I'm not a top down thinker - I think about systems from a high level/thematic perspective (or from a very individual perspective - it's why I studied clinical social work and public health policy in separate master's programs). I'd defer to my wise peers to thinking about how best to organize the state should it ever come to a place where I were somehow involved in drawing this stuff up lol

That sounds good to me. I’m all for decentralisation as much as possible.

I don’t know if I’d call myself a top down thinker but I have a deep appreciation for hierarchy and systematic thinking.

 

[deficiT]

I think it's funny people still say a planned economy or a proper social welfare state wouldn't work in a big country like the US.

Meanwhile, China dominates the world in global trade and most metrics of success. Shit, even Canada has better healthcare outcomes than the states.

 

[tryptakid]

I think it's funny people still say a planned economy or a proper social welfare state wouldn't work in a big country like the US.

Meanwhile, China dominates the world in global trade and most metrics of success. Shit, even Canada has better healthcare outcomes than the states.

They're also a collectivist culture whereas Americans are individualists. The entire linguistic and existential perspective that is common in China is very alien to those in the US. Even countries like Portugal have a very different mindset around community/family/individual vs. social dynamics. You don't really have suburbs in places like Portugal because people either live in the cities, or live in small rural towns surrounded by agriculture, fishing, or some other specific industry. In the US - every man is a king of his own kingdom, with his personal fiefdom somewhere in the sprawl of middle america. Disconnected from cross cultural discourse or interclass interactions. There are those who live in cities that see it more (and they tend to be more progressive/liberal/socialist minded). There's a reason suburbia is a big court to both the Republicans and the Democrats.

 

[deficiT]

You all are gonna love it when The Muslim BrotherHood or a Similar Party is elected and in Control of many of The Countries in Europe. Once they are citizens and have large families it is only a matter of time and however many generations till they get power and turn Europe into a Muslim Theocracy. They will also vote to take away money and power from the native population.

You already have no power. You have no money bro. It was white American (european, whatever, Western) citizens, mostly, that did that to us. It's really not so different between America and Europe. The West, and probably the rest of the world, is careening once again towards economic collapse amongst impending trade wars. This is manufactured, but not by muslims, not by Mexican immigrants.

Of course it's about race. You have a fear that someone of a different race wants to dominate you and take your shit. This fear has been instilled and cultivated in you since childhood, for a reason.

 

[tryptakid]

You already have no power. You have no money bro. It was white American (european, whatever, Western) citizens, mostly, that did that to us. It's really not so different between America and Europe. The West, and probably the rest of the world, is careening once again towards economic collapse amongst impending trade wars. This is manufactured, but not by muslims, not by Mexican immigrants.

Of course it's about race. You have a fear that someone of a different race wants to dominate you and take your shit. This fear has been instilled and cultivated in you since childhood, for a reason.

It's why Trump has done everything he could to buy himself into the ruling class, and is doing everything he can to set his family up for monarchist succession. He bought power and wants to leave that to his descendants in the way that Kennedy likely would have (to RFK, to JFK Jr, RFK Jr etc.) - it's probably why RFK Jr. is part of his leadership.

 

[tryptakid]

From today's front page article in The Atlantic: (here's a gift link: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...opy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share)

The MAGA movement might try to justify its wrecking-ball style by arguing that its extreme approach is commensurate with the level of anger that voters feel about the status quo. But just because Trump is a product of American rage does not mean he is a solution to it.

In housing, for example, Americans have every right to be furious. Home construction has lagged behind our national needs for decades. Today, the median age of first-time homebuyers has surged to a record high of 38. Large declines in young homeownership have likely prevented many young people from dating, marrying, and starting a family.

This is where Democrats should be able to stand up and show that they have a winning response to the less-is-less politics from the right. But in many places run by Democrats, the solution on offer is another variety of scarcity. Blue cities are laden with rules and litigation procedures that block new housing and transit construction. As my colleague Yoni Appelbaum has noted, in California cities where the share of progressives votes goes up by 10 points, the number of housing permits issued declines by 30 percent. Where the supply of homes is constricted, housing prices soar, and homelessness rises. As of 2023, the five states with the highest rates of homelessness were New York, Hawaii, California, Oregon, and Washington—all run by Democrats.

Just one of many ways of thinking of this wider problem of how artificial shortages (we are a country with enormous wealth and abundance) are used to control political will, to pit @Jnowhere against me so we will vote against one another instead of against those who hold property, power, and wealth.

 

[deficiT]

It's why Trump has done everything he could to buy himself into the ruling class, and is doing everything he can to set his family up for monarchist succession. He bought power and wants to leave that to his descendants in the way that Kennedy likely would have (to RFK, to JFK Jr, RFK Jr etc.) - it's probably why RFK Jr. is part of his leadership.

Damn, while I see the clear nepotism there from Trump, I really don't think JFK was that kind of a guy. Although, yeah it can't be argued that the Kennedys are an entrenched political dynasty.

You can't tell an Irish American that JFK is a monarchist this close to st Patty's day brother

 

[-=SS=-]

I think it's funny people still say a planned economy or a proper social welfare state wouldn't work in a big country like the US.

Well, technically it wouldn't in the current arrangement. The American system is an ecosystem of sorts, and it's raison d'etre is to function as a war factory. The entire system is now arranged and organised around that principle, right down to the local level. It's difficult to see it, but it's there. It touches local communities in a way that is not easily perceptible.

That's not to say it couldn't be done. It could. But the USA, like the UK and most of Europe, has organised itself around certain tenets that are pointing in the opposite direction. I mean literally too. Look at the way we organise ourselves physically, with people forming a nexus in cities and the financial stuff right at the core.

Meanwhile, China dominates the world in global trade and most metrics of success. Shit, even Canada has better healthcare outcomes than the states.

Paper tiger. China is going to implode. You can't rule over people with an iron fist forever, nor can you rush development like it has and not run into systemic problems. It's growth wouldn't have even happened if it weren't for Western industrialists deliberately sending over all their toxic industry, which has utterly ruined the quality of life for ordinary Chinese people who once lived quite humble lives as farmers.

If that totalitarian dumpster fire is a measure for success, then my lord what the hell are we doing.

 

[fairnymph]

I think it's funny people still say a planned economy or a proper social welfare state wouldn't work in a big country like the US.

Meanwhile, China dominates the world in global trade and most metrics of success. Shit, even Canada has better healthcare outcomes than the states.

Their birth rate is much lower and they have serious social issues. They also don’t give a damn about the environment.

 

[tryptakid]

Damn, while I see the clear nepotism there from Trump, I really don't think JFK was that kind of a guy. Although, yeah it can't be argued that the Kennedys are an entrenched political dynasty.

You can't tell an Irish American that JFK is a monarchist this close to st Patty's day brother

JFK was a product of a family that hustled their way into elite society. He was also a product of a very different time than we inhabit. It was after the war, money was cheap, america was expanding.... my grandparents had 10 kids on a postal worker salary with GI benefits, my grandmother was a part time nurse (in between having 10 kids in 15 years). JFK had more progressive values, but he was also half of DJT's age and had mostly spent his life fighting in the war and being a senator from MA. Bobby was an attorney (just as RFK jr has been) and would have likely ran in 68 (as he did) and won (as he was going to) had he not been shot. Teddy would have won if it wasn't for Cuttyhunk, and instead had to accept the lion of liberalism in the Senate until he died.

JFK Jr might've run if he hadn't crashed into Nantucket Sound in 98 and probably would have won something.

Trauma does a lot of fucked up things to families - radicalizing some (see RFK Jr) while turning others deeper into drugs (see many of the Kennedy grandkids).

Trump was always an outsider and sees a chance to take the likely model of succession from Camelot's heydey and turn it into Mar-a-lot.

Hell, they even tried to say that JFK was really still alive and was going to show up in Dallas a few years ago...

And today he's releasing the JFK records.