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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Immigration discussion

if only congress would pass a bipartisan bill - supported by the nbpc - to address a multitude of issues at the border.

wait. never mind.

alasdair
Remember when you were like "if they would only pass the 'bipartisan' border bill" that would have allowed over 1M crossings a year?

It turned out that instead of passing a bloated $118B spending bill that gave $60B to Ukraine and $14B to Israel, we just simply needed to enforce existing laws

GFiBLkUWEAA-WdG


Look at February border crossings without passing a wasteful bill that wouldn't have even lowered border crossings

February Border Crossings:
Biden 2022: 166,010
Biden 2023: 156,630
Biden 2024: 189,913
Trump 2025: 8,326
 
It's okay, you can ignore immigration now since it's under control again, without passing the wasteful bill you showed support for
 
it's fake news! biden derangement syndrome! etc.

alasdair

I was interested to note that Barack Obama was known as the 'deporter in chief' as over his terms, he deported far more illegal immigrants than anyone following him.

Has anyone else noted that a whole raft of policy complaints against former US presidents have suddently disappeared in light of Donald Trump continuing or possibly even enhancing those very same policies?

An example:

Go back a year and there seemed to be an endless number of complains of how former presidents were providing excessive amounts of Military aid to Isreal.

I don't claim to understand the geopolitics in detail but I took a look at the amount of military aid that was given. I noted it began in 1948 and rose steadily until 1974 (maybe the energy crisis meant the US felt it neeed to ensure that OPEC oil would continue to flow) and although there are claims that this year is yet another 'record year', I haven't seen those amounts adjusted for inflation so when stated out of context, they don't provide any facts.

But I think I'm correct in saying a US military expert noted that Israel is 'a huge unsinkable aircraft carrier' and that didn't just mean the nation could act as a FOB but that it provided huge amounts of intelligence to the US. I'm not saying it's right or wrong because I don't really understand it. I just notice that I would see such complaints several times a day... until the last US election.

Can anyone thing of other examples... and yes, I WOULD like to underatnd it properly.
 
Immigrating to Canada for me and the USA for my wife has probably totaled over $5000 +. We did things correctly. And it was tough. But I have to say if ANYONE should be mad at illegals it should be me, yet I am not. They are human beings. Earthlings. No I do not like when a system is taken advantage of and abused. I wonder where my lack of anger comes from. I find it hard to be a victim in any aspect. Maybe that is why. Hard to point my finger out to anyone or anything as the cause of any of my grievances. But we know a lot of people LOVE being victims. They get to complain.

But we all know some of the richer republicans (as well as dems) hire illegals to save money. So the hypocrisy is astounding.
'Who invented borders anyway ?", oh no they were forced on us by wars.
But my Polish neighbour s as i hear em say amazed, even when you have no job.
In Netherland, you get money have a roof over your head, food and medical aid.
Its a miracle to him, i know where the means are coming from.
Exploitation, being a tax haven and our illegal drug trade. ao.

So any one is entitled the same imo. What i do hate is they get.
People from outside the area for the shit work, and East-European s.
Or Turkish. Moroccan people to remove Asbestos or spray Pesticides.

So illegal things according to the Law.

So being part of a parasite country, anyone may take their lot afaik.
 
Anyone who has studied birth-rates in Europe will quickly realize that with an aging population, there actually is a need for immigration. But LEGAL immigration. If someone with a skill is prepared to spend months or years to legally obtain the right to live in another nation, that shows a determination to better their lives.

As for illegal immigration - it's important to understand that the snakeheads profit from human traffiking and those people who DO make it end up as indentured slaves. Because the snakeheads WILL punish members of a person's family if they fail to remain indentured.

I honestly have no answer on how to tackle the snakeheads but they will promise anything and everything to make people take on what amounts to a reasonable risk of death during the journey.
Legal immigration as we know it is not an adequate measure to combat our aging populations either. We in Germany for example would need to let millions immigrate in the next 5 years to make up for the lack of workers. The only people that come here in remotely such numbers would be refugees. I agree that illegal immigration is a problem (not the least of it for illegal immigrants themselves) and shouldn't be normalized however.
 
The only people who are worried about low birth rates are the neo-conservative crowd like Musk, Peterson, etc
I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with neocons. Societal factors such as birth rates are economic fundamentals. If you increasingly have an over aged population at some point you reach a stage that is terminal. At this point there is no way things can continue as they are and the society collapses. We are gonna see that in China soon btw. They are by far the fastest aging society on earth. They basically have hardly any new generation in the pipeline. I really don't understand whats supposed to be controversial about that. Because Musk said it? Musk wants an economy that has a future. It is doubtful if the USA are really all that relevant here btw because the demographics are not all that bad. Until the Zoomers got counted, the US had a chimney economy and largely replenished old generations with new ones. Countries like Germany on the other hand are already in deep shit and essentially terminal as well. Its much easier not to get any children for a generation rather than making a generation breed when you desperately need them to.
 
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Legal immigration as we know it is not an adequate measure to combat our aging populations either. We in Germany for example would need to let millions immigrate in the next 5 years to make up for the lack of workers.
If our nations require an exponentially increasing population in order to function for the economy not to implode, then the way we do things is fucking stupid anyway. I mean really what it boils down to is that the ruling class have devised a system that basically requires masses of new, fresh, expendable labour, particularly young people, that it can drain the vitality from instead of allowing people and communities to actually flourish. It is absolutely parasitical in nature, and I'm amazed that more people don't ascribe that word to it when it clearly is.

Like the whole thing about aging populations. As if shunting our elders into care homes or living thousands of miles away from them is somehow normal and what we should aspire to, and that elderly people should necessarily be so decrepit because a lifetime of gruelling labour is a requirement just to live life. No, this is not normal, this is a sign of a neurotic and broken humanity.

The way we're organized is not sustainable, and it's not even enjoyable for the vast majority of people. It's built around this ruling class materialistic opulence that has put us completely out of balance with nature, with each other, and ourselves.
 
I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with neocons. Societal factors such as birth rates are economic fundamentals. If you increasingly have an over aged population at some point you reach a stage that is terminal. At this point there is no way things can continue as they are and the society collapses. We are gonna see that in China soon btw. They are by far the fastest aging society on earth. They basically have hardly any new generation in the pipeline. I really don't understand whats supposed to be controversial about that. Because Musk said it? Musk wants an economy that has a future. It is doubtful if the USA are really all that relevant here btw because the demographics are not all that bad. Until the Zoomers got counted, the US had a chimney economy and largely replenished old generations with new ones. Countries like Germany on the other hand are already in deep shit and essentially terminal as well. Its much easier not to get any children for a generation rather than making a generation breed when you desperately need them to.
Bollocks to Musk, he's just a plant for the military industrial complex, he's not even particularly smart as evidenced by his dialogues on Joe Rogan. I don't know why people take him seriously. He is just representative of the knee-jerk reaction of an establishment that does not care about people like you and me. They just don't. Their worries about population is completely self-serving, whether it be too many or not enough; don't be fooled. They see numbers on a spreadsheet, not human beings. They do not approach this from a humanitarian perspective - continued below;

Listen, if the ruling class of Germany, the UK, Japan, etc, actually cared about their people and their countries then we wouldn't have ended up in this position in the first place. They would taken measures decades ago to make it easier for young people to afford housing for one thing, and done all that was necessary to see them happy and flourish. But instead they've done literally the complete opposite by not building enough houses, restricting development, making it harder and harder for young people to even just get started in life (as a millennial I know this keenly). They have literally sold out the futures of the young people in order to maintain a degree of opulence now.

It's no wonder that Japan and Korea have such high suicide rates in the youth, that China has the 'lay flat/let it rot' movement. We have it in the West too but in a more diffuse 'checking out' type of mentality. I mean the fact youth suicide is a thing at all is absolutely insane, we just gloss over it, but it has no historical precedent.. young people killing themselves is a clear indication that our societies are seriously broken.

Too many people. Not enough people. Until we start getting back to actual human values and get away from the obsession with the economy, which is just a cult/game played by the ruling class in order to have a slave system for their own benefit, then things will only spiral in one direction.
 
If our nations require an exponentially increasing population in order to function for the economy not to implode, then the way we do things is fucking stupid anyway. I mean really what it boils down to is that the ruling class have devised a system that basically requires masses of new, fresh, expendable labour, particularly young people, that it can drain the vitality from instead of allowing people and communities to actually flourish. It is absolutely parasitical in nature, and I'm amazed that more people don't ascribe that word to it when it clearly is.

Like the whole thing about aging populations. As if shunting our elders into care homes or living thousands of miles away from them is somehow normal and what we should aspire to, and that elderly people should necessarily be so decrepit because a lifetime of gruelling labour is a requirement just to live life. No, this is not normal, this is a sign of a neurotic and broken humanity.

The way we're organized is not sustainable, and it's not even enjoyable for the vast majority of people. It's built around this ruling class materialistic opulence that has put us completely out of balance with nature, with each other, and ourselves.
Yes it is stupid. Yes capitalism isn't sustainable in the long run but we do not have a better alternative to switch to. If we just let it happen things will go to shit. BTW, I am not talking about exponentially increasing populations. I am simply talking replacing one generation with another. One father and mother must roughly have 2 children or the model becomes unsustainable in the long run. I am not really talking about solutions either. I am merely pointing out how fucked we are gonna be. I don't think there are many solutions in a liberal democracy. You can't force people to marry and have children.
 
Yes it is stupid. Yes capitalism isn't sustainable in the long run but we do not have a better alternative to switch to. If we just let it happen things will go to shit. BTW, I am not talking about exponentially increasing populations. I am simply talking replacing one generation with another. One father and mother must roughly have 2 children or the model becomes unsustainable in the long run. I am not really talking about solutions either. I am merely pointing out how fucked we are gonna be. I don't think there are many solutions in a liberal democracy. You can't force people to marry and have children.
But it's going to go to shit anyway, that is a guarantee. There is no amount of technology or science that is going to save us, there isn't even enough resources to maintain what we have now let alone this high-tech 'great reset' fantasy the elite have in mind. There literally isn't enough copper in the ground for it. From an ecological perspective the way we produce food is not going to last much longer due to the way we treat soil and water as basically inert physical masses instead of life producing substances. From an environmental perspective our weather will continue to become more wonky, more flooding and droughts, as we continue to denude the Earth's surface of forest and concrete everything.

In other words, the focus should not be on 'too many/not enough' people.. that part of the equation will always stabilise naturally if we live in balance with nature itself. We're putting the cart before the horse. There's no point worrying about demographics if the way we're organized is leading everyone to destruction regardless.

And I disagree about there being no alternative. That's just a product of our diminished education and poisoned lifestyles that has robbed us of vivid imaginations and the ability to be cooperative instead of competitive. The vast majority of the worlds population don't want war, they don't even want the latest iPhones or any of this bollocks, we're basically all the same.. we just want a little plot of land, a family, and to just be left alone to be happy and productive in our own way. We don't need capitalism, or socialism, for that because we don't actually need a ruling class or economy in the first place.. those are just human contrivances.
 
But it's going to go to shit anyway, that is a guarantee. There is no amount of technology or science that is going to save us, there isn't even enough resources to maintain what we have now let alone this high-tech 'great reset' fantasy the elite have in mind. There literally isn't enough copper in the ground for it. From an ecological perspective the way we produce food is not going to last much longer due to the way we treat soil and water as basically inert physical masses instead of life producing substances. From an environmental perspective our weather will continue to become more wonky, more flooding and droughts, as we continue to denude the Earth's surface of forest and concrete everything.

In other words, the focus should not be on 'too many/not enough' people.. that part of the equation will always stabilise naturally if we live in balance with nature itself. We're putting the cart before the horse. There's no point worrying about demographics if the way we're organized is leading everyone to destruction regardless.

And I disagree about there being no alternative. That's just a product of our diminished education and poisoned lifestyles that has robbed us of vivid imaginations and the ability to be cooperative instead of competitive. The vast majority of the worlds population don't want war, they don't even want the latest iPhones or any of this bollocks, we're basically all the same.. we just want a little plot of land, a family, and to just be left alone to be happy and productive in our own way. We don't need capitalism, or socialism, for that because we don't actually need a ruling class or economy in the first place.. those are just human contrivances.
It can only stabilize naturally through increased birth rates or making the elderly go away. If you do nothing, the society will approximately start consisting of elderly and the necessary caregivers and a society like that is terminal. But I'd like to be wrong because there isn't really a good solution on the horizon. I guess we will see what is gonna happen to China within the next decade and how they are gonna cope with it.
 
It can only stabilize naturally through increased birth rates or making the elderly go away. If you do nothing, the society will approximately start consisting of elderly and the necessary caregivers and a society like that is terminal. But I'd like to be wrong because there isn't really a good solution on the horizon. I guess we will see what is gonna happen to China within the next decade and how they are gonna cope with it.
But you're still looking at this from an angle of economics. I'm saying, fuck economics.. until we put human values, and nature, before concerns of the economy then the whole enterprise is going to collapse at some point regardless. The reason we're in this mess in the first place is we diverged too far from nature and human values.

It's not a coincidence that China rules with an iron fist, or that the West is attempting to implement the same high-tech authoritarian surveillance society here. That's the choice we're going to be presented with. Either we start having serious conversations about how we all want to actually live, or the ruling class will attempt to force everyone to play their way as they simultaneously attempt to hold back nature with the other hand. That won't work, and I have my bets on a revolution in China before long. You simply can not treat humans like work horses, we are meant for far greater things than that.

We treat our elders like shit. We treat children like shit. Who gives a fuck about population levels when we have created a system that doesn't even value the people who are already here! Is my point.
 
Bollocks to Musk, he's just a plant for the military industrial complex, he's not even particularly smart as evidenced by his dialogues on Joe Rogan. I don't know why people take him seriously. He is just representative of the knee-jerk reaction of an establishment that does not care about people like you and me. They just don't. Their worries about population is completely self-serving, whether it be too many or not enough; don't be fooled. They see numbers on a spreadsheet, not human beings. They do not approach this from a humanitarian perspective - continued below;

Listen, if the ruling class of Germany, the UK, Japan, etc, actually cared about their people and their countries then we wouldn't have ended up in this position in the first place. They would taken measures decades ago to make it easier for young people to afford housing for one thing, and done all that was necessary to see them happy and flourish. But instead they've done literally the complete opposite by not building enough houses, restricting development, making it harder and harder for young people to even just get started in life (as a millennial I know this keenly). They have literally sold out the futures of the young people in order to maintain a degree of opulence now.

It's no wonder that Japan and Korea have such high suicide rates in the youth, that China has the 'lay flat/let it rot' movement. We have it in the West too but in a more diffuse 'checking out' type of mentality. I mean the fact youth suicide is a thing at all is absolutely insane, we just gloss over it, but it has no historical precedent.. young people killing themselves is a clear indication that our societies are seriously broken.

Too many people. Not enough people. Until we start getting back to actual human values and get away from the obsession with the economy, which is just a cult/game played by the ruling class in order to have a slave system for their own benefit, then things will only spiral in one direction.
Only other time I've heard of such high rates of youth suicide and mental health issues are in the Indian reservations up north. People sent to a frozen dirt area far far away from any other civilization and their culture stripped.
When youth have a bleak outlook for their future that happens. Now it's happening everywhere.
 
Only other time I've heard of such high rates of youth suicide and mental health issues are in the Indian reservations up north. People sent to a frozen dirt area far far away from any other civilization and their culture stripped.
When youth have a bleak outlook for their future that happens. Now it's happening everywhere.
They'll blame social media for it because that's the only scapegoat they have available. Just like 'violent video games cause violence', they'll overlook the fact that well-rounded, loved, self-secure children are immune to violent acts in the first place (which includes suicide, a self-violent act). The suicide rates are a disgrace, a true canary in the coal mine, and our culture can not face up to a real discussion as to why because ultimately it will reflect back on the failure of culture itself. I mean by simple logic it has to.. the children are open books, some tremendous external failure has to occur to cause them to self-delete.

We're more likely to see conscription for young people than we are for a discussion about suicide rates. Which of course would shoot up if conscription were reintroduced..
 
What do you like about the afd and what do you think they could do better.
I like that they want to stop/slow immigration and push for deportations. We have major crime issues here due to illegal migrants. I’m also big on nuclear power and they want to restart the power plants here. And they don’t want to give all our money to Ukraine to support a pointless war, which I also support. They’re EU skeptical which I think is great.

I’m not sure what they could do better given the complex and extremely far left politics here - at least from my perspective - so if they promoted more policies I’d like to see, they would likely lose most of their support.

But if you’re wondering what policies I wish they would promote, I’d like to see them get rid of all welfare programs here. Homeschooling should be made legal. All drugs should be legalised. People should be allowed to own and carry knives with blades more than 6cm long and guns.
 
Hopefully Venezuela is one of the first targets. We don't need those Tren de Aragua gang members here

 
But if you’re wondering what policies I wish they would promote, I’d like to see them get rid of all welfare programs here. Homeschooling should be made legal. All drugs should be legalised. People should be allowed to own and carry knives with blades more than 6cm long and guns.
All welfare programs? That seems a bit steep to me. Our societies are tremendously unforgiving to its own population due to adherence to the economic system, and simultaneous dismantling of family and community. If we're going to rob everyone of the support that family and community gives by default in exchange for this consumerist economic system, then the system owes protection for the masses if luck should not be kind to them.. otherwise what you have (which we do have) is a cult like system where it's "if you fail it's because YOU failed, tough shit, work it out [or die]".

I'd agree we can definitely refine the welfare system, in particular in regards to exploitation by economic migrants (illegal and legal) though. A nation should always be prioritizing its native inhabitants first, that is just common sense, and if a legal migrant goes through the proper pipeline to get their citizenship (which also needs to be refined and far more stringent) then at that point they should be entitled to the same protection. Like in the UK, we have people who are claiming benefits who can't even speak a lick of English.. who the tax payer then pays for again in the form of a translator.. absolutely ridiculous. You should be required to basically be where all secondary/high-school pupils are at in terms of language and other civil/cultural knowledge.
 
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