I'm sure you see the effects of US intervention more than most here, being in south america
Immigration discussion
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paltatomate
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Both from the US and Europe
fairnymph
Ex-Bluelighter
Money and housing are not the biggest problems, though they matter. The problem is cultural. It’s become low status in the west to have children, especially larger families. People marry too late as well, which is not helped by excessive education. The drop in religiosity and surge of nihilism is huge too.
Electrum1
Bluelighter
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Trump expected to sign executive order terminating all federal taxpayer benefits to illegal immigrants
President Donald Trump on Wednesday is expected to sign an executive order to stop illegal immigrants from receiving federal taxpayer benefits.
I disagree, I think money and housing are the root causes. Young men and women are out of balance with themselves and each other, because the emphasis on materiality is over-emphasized by enforced scarcity. If people in their twenties didn't have to burn themselves out just trying to get on the housing ladder by 30, then you'd have less women playing their little games and also men would have more time to craft themselves as men rather than have to give 90% of their energy to some job which would make them far more attractive (sexually and partner wise).
Money and housing are the big wedge, which drives all the various cultural effects downstream. Religion is not a solution. I see people trying to hark backwards to some religious ideal, whist forgetting all the problems that caused in the first place - just look at Islam and how shafted women are in that culture. People will have children when all the game playing stops.
If young people could have homes by 25 and not have to worry about cashflow, you wouldn't see all this floundering about. Everyone is chasing various things because they are looking for substitutes, to try and fill the void. A small percentage would probably still stay childless for various reasons, but the main body of people would go straight to having families.
fairnymph
Ex-Bluelighter
Poor people have more kids - even without welfare. It’s just now everyone thinks they need a room for each child and all these unnecessary luxuries and conveniences. If people really wanted kids, they would make it happen. Instead they get pets & travel & focus on finding themselves. Yes, wages have not grown while inflation has been insane. But we still have a better material quality of life than ever in history. What’s lacking is a healthy communal and spiritual. Selfish individualism reigns.
Religiosity is highly pronatalist and only the strong religions with hard culture will make it through this bottleneck in substantial numbers. So the Amish, Mennonites some of the Mormons, a few of the Christians and then of course a lot of Muslims
Atheism will effectively die out. Also just because one religion is bad doesn’t mean they all are. And it’s very important that a religion suits its people. Not all religions work for all people.Religions and poor people might work hard at pumping out large numbers of children, but that's besides the point. It's quality of children, not quantity that matters.Poor people have more kids - even without welfare. It’s just now everyone thinks they need a room for each child and all these unnecessary luxuries and conveniences. If people really wanted kids, they would make it happen. Instead they get pets & travel & focus on finding themselves. Yes, wages have not grown while inflation has been insane. But we still have a better material quality of life than ever in history. What’s lacking is a healthy communal and spiritual. Selfish individualism reigns.
Religiosity is highly pronatalist and only the strong religions with hard culture will make it through this bottleneck in substantial numbers. So the Amish, Mennonites some of the Mormons, a few of the Christians and then of course a lot of Muslims
Quantity only matters to a society, culture, or group, that is looking to preserve itself as an entity, whereas quality matters both to the individual and the long-range value of the collective. Anyone can pump out a child, that is not the difficult part. The difficulty is raising a child to their fullest expression, and that is not going happen with poor people (living within a culture bound by an economy, as distinct from primitive economy-less people) or people living under mentally and emotionally repressive religious systems.
You look at any of the religious systems that pump out large numbers of children, and you'll find the people are all warped. That is the trade off, the religion guarantees large numbers through an enforced morality system (predicated on fear not joy), but it produces stunted and damaged people whose only meaning in life then becomes to perpetuate that religious system. It's circular and in the long-run will destroy all that it touches until it finally eats itself. Which is precisely what we see with Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.
It's not necessarily about the luxuries, that's a MSM spin. I think a lot of young people do now instinctively recognise what a child needs to be fully expressed, having grown up in safe and secure material circumstances.. yet still being semi-stunted themselves, so upon reflection they can now see clearly where their parents/culture failed. It's more about time with the children and less stress (on the parents), something that our culture does absolutely nothing to value because now both parents are working and stressed out and children get shipped to day-care.
The solution isn't to go backwards to religious systems. We made the right step with individualism. The next step is confronting the inequity of the system itself that puts profit above people, and reorganizing our collective game playing to put people first instead.
fairnymph
Ex-Bluelighter
Of course quality matters, but you can’t get quality if no one’s reproducing at all. At least if some people are reproducing, you’ll inevitably get some quality. And quality can potentially be improved later if enough people still exist. You can’t improve anything if you die out.
I am not a fan of Christianity personally but I think your view is the warped one. I’ve encountered plenty of very happy, successful Christians. And all the Amish and Mennonites I’ve known are filled with joy & vitality, though I think a big part of that is the lack of tech use. They make most people in the west look like delusional zombies.
I don’t watch MSM, so the luxuries and conveniences point is my own, based on observation.
Daycare sucks.
It is impossible to avoid religion. If we are not raised with a religion, or we reject whatwere raised with, we will find something else to make into a religion. Many people in the west have become atheistic, individualistic materialists as rigid as a fundamentalists, they just have different values & customs.
Putting other people first will never work. People need to put themselves first. You can’t help other people unless you are strong & functional yourself, and the west is in shambles relative to its former glory. Wealth distribution hurts everyone. People are inherently unequal and there’s nothing that will ever change that except maybe extreme genetic engineering à la Brave New World, which it’s not a world I would ever want to live in. Hierarchy is natural and beneficial. Without it, people would not strive. It’s how we improve.
This is the great error though. The quality doesn't come later, it comes first. The more you fail the child and the earlier you fail them, the more detrimental the effects become to neurological hardwiring.. which gives rise to virtually every problem we face as a culture and as a species. In America it literally starts from the moment you're born, with neonatal care being so broken and detached from what it should be.
It's not about numbers. If you create an legion of stunted people then that just makes the inevitable problems down the road harder to deal with, because those stunted people beget more stunted people and create a cultural system that then tries to perpetuate itself (by creating more stunted people).
People are never going to stop fucking. The only people who are worried about low birth rates are the neo-conservative crowd like Musk, Peterson, etc, who when you boil it right down are not actually concerned with humanity but their own selfish interests - culture is working through them - in just the same way many of the elite are worried about over-population.. in both cases neither side has targeted the real issue, because to do that would first require a critical examination of the problem and we are the problem. The solution is to start with the children, not working backwards to try and fit some ideological conception of how we think life should be.
I understand why people jump back to religion as a band-aid. But it's not going to work. It's a tool for simple minded people and we have in the main now outgrown it. It was a crutch. What is required now is a scientific synthesis that brings it all together, not more fairy tales or enforced morality based on nothing but hot air. Jesus wasn't religious, or Christian, which is the whole point. It's a template to follow, not an image to be believed.
You are right, but there is more and all these advanced degrees and trying to purge America and other Nations of skilled and semi skilled home grown labor.
It really bothers me that a guy who is apprenticed for 10,000 hours. 5 years, 50 weeks a year, 40 hours a week is not respected anymore.
Guys ( it is almost always guys) with skilled and even semi skilled workers are not treated as well as someone who has an undergraduate degree in something useless like a BA in philosophy or Bulgarian literature.
Also religion is not a band aid. Maybe for some but this world was created and your dismissal of God is a big mistake.
There is no way without violating the fundamentals of science to try to say this Universe came from nothing.
There are up to 2 trillion galaxies( we only know as far as our telescope arrays working together can detect. Each with about a trillion stars( that is a million times a million) many with solar systems much larger than ours.
It didn't come from nothing and sure as the sun will rise; didn't get put perfectly and stay that way, their has to be a God.
It is so arrogant for people to think Humans know a lot or that they are the most superior beings.
Also we many only know a tiny fraction of one percent or less of the Universe. The Universe is endless until proven otherwise.
The Big Bang Theory was screwed up after the James E Webb telescope detected space objects that were according to them too old or far a way; negating that 13.8 or 13.9 billion light year nonsense.
Matter can be neither created or destroyed. Unless you are the Creator aka God.
But science today is all about coming up with a hypothesis and bending, twisting, leaving out contrary data, making up nonsense to explain what they honestly can't. Oh, scientists will not admit that there is a least one( this not about religion)Being who had to have been eternal and have absolute power to create this seemingly endless universe.
Oh and the sci fi nuts. I wonder if an alien landed here and said yes there is a God and has a son named Jesus Christ and a Spirit and they all were separate but as one. What then after the aliens came from let's see light speed is about 300,000 km/s so 300,000× 60(seconds)× 60 ( minutes) x24( hours)
x 365.25 ( round up a little in the hundredth spot) so 9,467,280,000,000 km= approx. 1 light year or divide by 1.6
and 5,917,050,000,000 miles.
So what if the aliens came from 100's or thousands of light years and then they said there is an all powerful God who is The different beings yet he is one. And what if they confirmed the Bible?
So rounded up a little light year is almost 9.5 trillion km or rounded up 6 trillion miles and you ain't even half way to the nearest star. The estimates vary up to 2 trillion galaxies. But 200 billion seems to be a good accepted average. And one trillion stars each is the accepted average per galaxy so
200,000,000,000×1,000,000,000,000=
200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars
2^23 or 200 sextillion stars approximately untill we make better telescopes and the number keeps going up and up.
Our sun being average with some 1000's of time larger and many with solar systems. Our solar system is average and the Milky Way average and it is 100, 000 light years in diameter average size galaxy.
That is all we currently know. There has to be a God all this and more didn't come from nothing.
People believe the the universe magically appeared at of nothing , no God no Creator or their is an Almighty God. Then the debate on does he have a purpose in creating the Universe in the blink of an eye but spent 6 days and rested on the 7th. He had purpose and until people accept that then there is no hope for them and they are lost. But don't worry you will meet him, then you should worry because eternity is forever and Hell is black, hot and alone suffering in darkness forever.
Laugh, ridicule me, come on, mock me.
I actually find it amusing as I read about ALMIGHTY GOD'S, glorious creation and people think every thing came from nothing.
fairnymph
Ex-Bluelighter
Yes, the difficulty/inability of men to get the status they need to appeal to women’s hypergamy is a major factor. Extended education, especially of women, naturally plays into this too. And academia has now been taken over by women - which is why it’s losing status. Every profession which becomes female dominant becomes effectively useless to men wanting to prove their status to women. Because women judge men based on their ability to compete with other men - not with women.You are right, but there is more and all these advanced degrees and trying to purge America and other Nations of skilled and semi skilled home grown labor.
It really bothers me that a guy who is apprenticed for 10,000 hours. 5 years, 50 weeks a year, 40 hours a week is not respected anymore.
Guys ( it is almost always guys) with skilled and even semi skilled workers are not treated as well as someone who has an undergraduate degree in something useless like a BA in philosophy or Bulgarian literature.
Also religion is not a band aid. Maybe for some but this world was created and your dismissal of God is a big mistake.
There is no way without violating the fundamentals of science to try to say this Universe came from nothing.
There are up to 2 trillion galaxies( we only know as far as our telescope arrays working together can detect. Each with about a trillion stars( that is a million times a million) many with solar systems much larger than ours.
It didn't come from nothing and sure as the sun will rise; didn't get put perfectly and stay that way, their has to be a God.
It is so arrogant for people to think Humans know a lot or that they are the most superior beings.
Also we many only know a tiny fraction of one percent or less of the Universe. The Universe is endless until proven otherwise.
The Big Bang Theory was screwed up after the James E Webb telescope detected space objects that were according to them too old or far a way; negating that 13.8 or 13.9 billion light year nonsense.
Matter can be neither created or destroyed. Unless you are the Creator aka God.
But science today is all about coming up with a hypothesis and bending, twisting, leaving out contrary data, making up nonsense to explain what they honestly can't. Oh, scientists will not admit that there is a least one( this not about religion)Being who had to have been eternal and have absolute power to create this seemingly endless universe.
Oh and the sci fi nuts. I wonder if an alien landed here and said yes there is a God and has a son named Jesus Christ and a Spirit and they all were separate but as one. What then after the aliens came from let's see light speed is about 300,000 km/s so 300,000× 60(seconds)× 60 ( minutes) x24( hours)
x 365.25 ( round up a little in the hundredth spot) so 9,467,280,000,000 km= approx. 1 light year or divide by 1.6
and 5,917,050,000,000 miles.
So what if the aliens came from 100's or thousands of light years and then they said there is an all powerful God who is The different beings yet he is one. And what if they confirmed the Bible?
So rounded up a little light year is almost 9.5 trillion km or rounded up 6 trillion miles and you ain't even half way to the nearest star. The estimates vary up to 2 trillion galaxies. But 200 billion seems to be a good accepted average. And one trillion stars each is the accepted average per galaxy so
200,000,000,000×1,000,000,000,000=
200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars
2^23 or 200 sextillion stars approximately untill we make better telescopes and the number keeps going up and up.
Our sun being average with some 1000's of time larger and many with solar systems. Our solar system is average and the Milky Way average and it is 100, 000 light years in diameter average size galaxy.
That is all we currently know. There has to be a God all this and more didn't come from nothing.
People believe the the universe magically appeared at of nothing , no God no Creator or their is an Almighty God. Then the debate on does he have a purpose in creating the Universe in the blink of an eye but spent 6 days and rested on the 7th. He had purpose and until people accept that then there is no hope for them and they are lost. But don't worry you will meet him, then you should worry because eternity is forever and Hell is black, hot and alone suffering in darkness forever.
Laugh, ridicule me, come on, mock me.
I actually find it amusing as I read about ALMIGHTY GOD'S, glorious creation and people think every thing came from nothing.
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It totally is a band-aid, It is about believing, not finding out. Those who do find out garner virtually no notoriety except among those at or close to that level. The masses can't see even see them - if a Jesus figure emerged again not a single Christian would recognise them. And part of the blindness is the believing; such as assuming God created something; it presupposes and therefore occludes the present moment, which is where the Truth is. None of the big religions have much to say in that regard, and they exist solely to further their own enterprise and not elevate the person.
It's all so trite and completely coloured with human thinking. Linearity, hierarchy, predefinition, submission. From where I stand nothing ever was and God is not beyond me.
The issue I have with this red-pill-esque philosophy is that it makes assumptions about female nature that are implied to be for all women, for all time. Which I take issue with, so I would say it is at best a half truth. And trying to organise a future world around a half-truth is never going to work out, just like it won't if people attempt to fall back on religion (another half-truth).
fairnymph
Ex-Bluelighter
It’s really sad how you’re hung up on the Abrahamic religions. Have you ever looked into Buddhism or Hinduism, or the beliefs of the ancient Greeks or Egyptians? There are some amazing religions out there, that are radically different from what you seem to think religion is fundamentally about.
Red pill is true most of the time for most women. I am quite atypical for a woman in some ways, quite masculine minded with numerous masculine interests, but it’s red pill philosophy that has made me realise how much like normal women I actually am. And for most of my life I struggled with feeling like I wasn’t feminine enough. Not too severely but just enough to make me unconsciously insecure when typically I’m ultra confident. I wish I had been explicitly taught red pill growing up, and I think taught the right way it helps everyone. Alexander Grace on YouTube is one of my favourite content creators of all time and he does the topic justice. He cares deeply for both genders and wants everyone to flourish.
Red pill is true most of the time for most women. I am quite atypical for a woman in some ways, quite masculine minded with numerous masculine interests, but it’s red pill philosophy that has made me realise how much like normal women I actually am. And for most of my life I struggled with feeling like I wasn’t feminine enough. Not too severely but just enough to make me unconsciously insecure when typically I’m ultra confident. I wish I had been explicitly taught red pill growing up, and I think taught the right way it helps everyone. Alexander Grace on YouTube is one of my favourite content creators of all time and he does the topic justice. He cares deeply for both genders and wants everyone to flourish.
as arrogant as assuming you're right and telling everybody else they're wrong?
alasdair
I am not religious, I am a believer in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That is not a half truth. But I am not going to fight with someone dead set against the truth. But you seem happy. But wait until the day of judgement. My answer is I am with Christ. I have repented and yes I do have to keep myself under control. No I don't belong to any cult just a regular gospel preaching Christian Church and I am not the type to believe, but I am and I know and believe in the life, crucifixion, and resurrection of the one and only son of ALMIGHTY GOD, The Lord Jesus Christ who has helped me a lot and without him I would dead or in prison.
I am not some dorky computer geek.
I am on my phone and have several guns near me that are loaded and are not legal in the UK. However I am not paranoid, nor due I worry much. I have registered guns because I live near a city that is a violent toilet that is becoming better as it dies. Detroit.
There is more to life than just what we see. It is weird because as a Christian who knows the Bible pretty well; I can see all that Bible said would happen in the final days unfolding. I am just worried about persecution but that may not be in my lifetime. Only God The Father Knows when. When what?
All the really scary things prophesied in primarily the Book of Daniel and more so in the Book Revelation. And other books. I am a Protestant and non denominational. I absolutely believe in repentance and a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and faith in him as my Lord and Savior. No I am not a nut, in fact I am quite normal. I despise the catholic church and all the word of faith give me your money scumbags. But every book but one in the new Testament speaks about all the false teachers.
Also the dwindling number of Christians,aka the falling away from faith, all the caos, evil and a huge amount of knowledge and advancement right before the end. No one but God The Father knows but we are to be prepared for it. Why do think all trouble in Middle East will not go away and the persecution of Jews?
Because their is a war between good and evil we cannot see. Things will only get worse in the world. There will not be peace in this world as we know it.
Robi
Bluelighter
I am not religious, I am a believer in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That is not a half truth. But I am not going to fight with someone dead set against the truth. But you seem happy. But wait until the day of judgement. My answer is I am with Christ. I have repented and yes I do have to keep myself under control. No I don't belong to any cult just a regular gospel preaching Christian Church and I am not the type to believe, but I am and I know and believe in the life, crucifixion, and resurrection of the one and only son of ALMIGHTY GOD, The LordJesus Christ who has helped me a lot and without him I would dead or in prison.
I am not some dorky computer geek.
I am on my phone and have several guns near me that are loaded and are not legal in the UK. However I am not paranoid, nor due I worry much. I have registered guns because I live near a city that is a violent toilet that is becoming better as it dies. Detroit.
There is more to life than just what we see. It is weird because as a Christian who knows the Bible pretty well; I can see all that Bible said would happen in the final days unfolding. I am just worried about persecution but that may not be in my lifetime. Only God The Father Knows when. When what?
All the really scary things prophesied in primarily the Book of Daniel and more so in the Book Revelation. And other books. I am a Protestant and non denominational. I absolutely believe in repentance and a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and faith in him as my Lord and Savior. No I am not a nut, in fact I am quite normal. I despise the catholic church and all the word of faith give me your money scumbags. But every book but one in the new Testament speaks about all the false teachers.
Also the dwindling number of Christians,aka the falling away from faith, all the caos, evil and a huge amount of knowledge and advancement right before the end. No one but God The Father knows but we are to be prepared for it. Why do think all trouble in Middle East will not go away and the persecution of Jews?
Because their is a war between good and evil we cannot see. Things will only get worse in the world. There will not be peace in this world as we know it.
Why do they always portray Jesus as a white boy? He was a Jew. The Jews have the same father as arabs. Abraham. Aka Ismael was half brothers with Issac. Jesus would have been more middle eastern in appearance as a man. He was fully man and fully God. But he would have had darker and more middle eastern features.
The Abrahamic religions are the dominant mental force in the Western hemisphere, naturally they garner most of my criticism because they are directly responsible for perpetuating a cycle of violence and joyless existence for probably close to a billion people. Even if a person isn't part of them, they still suffer under it because the distorted wrinkles in our collective psychology generations old still haven't been ironed out. The shame and guilt, especially surrounding sex, still affects so many people.
I am aware of the other religions too. They still parallel some of the issues in the Abrahamic ones, in their own way. There is still the dogma and ardent adherence to a mythological motif that doesn't actually take the individual person anywhere. Again, it may be conducive to a relatively stable society, but it's still going to come unravelled in the end because it has lost its raison d'être. You also see the same issue regarding Jesus vs Christianity in the East, the same blindness to real life transcendent figures today; Ramana Maharshi is a fantastic example of this. The masses still can't see him, still can not see what is in front of them.. because religion does not afford you that vision, only an image. This is the whole point.. I'm not interested in images, I'm interested in Truth.
But what is 'normal'? You will undoubtedly agree we are so far removed from whatever normal is as a culture that it is almost impossible to approach a normal psychology from where we stand, or to extrapolate what it should look like. We have mud in our eyes, it's difficult to ascertain a clear picture of what normal actually is. That's why I say red-pill is only half true, because while it does make some valid observations about women today in the West, it can only approach female psychology from within this distorted context.
That's the issue I take. None of the red-pill people ever look beyond our little grotty playground in the West. Perhaps looking into some anthropological studies over other cultures or peoples, who don't live as we do, and see what mode of being they exist in and in particular how the sexes relate to one and other. For example, I forget the name of the peoples (possibly an Indo-Pacific island people), but basically when teenagers came of age they spent a few years together in this hut.. just openly exploring their sexuality and intimacy with one and other, seeing who fits with who. They got it out the way, then they partnered up for life quite happily thereafter. That is just one example of a different mode.
Red-pill is an attempt at adjustment to our culture, based on some loose Darwinian interpretations of physiology and psychology. But it ignores the question of whether it is even sensible to try and adapt ourselves to our culture in the first place. Maybe we have it more wrong than we know.
Just to summarise, I do agree with some of the social observations about women (and men) that red-pill content makes, just not necessarily its conclusions or potential antidotes. I think the red-pill content creators stop short of really digging deeply and prefer to just stick around the low-hanging fruit of social observations and criticisms of the sexes behaviours. Like 'hypergamy' for instance.. they just propose it is purely genetic, purely evolutionary and inherent, that it is a completely immutable fact that can never change, which in my opinion is false because it ignores the neurological structures of our brain and how executive functions can brings those primitive impulses into its service in a more reformed manner. They just insinuate that all women have this incurable fire pre-built in, when in reality it may be more complicated than that - the anthropological example above provides a counter to this.
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I missed this but Peterson and Nigel Farage were discussing this point the other day at the ARC conference: Nigel Farage calls for reindustrialisation of Britain and higher birthrates - The Guardian
This is this harking backwards mentality again, 'Judeo-Christian values', and actually intertwined with the selfish interests of perpetuating the system as-is. I don't remember Farage, or any other politician of any political party, saying anything over 20 years ago about the absolute betrayal of young people. About housing, jobs, or any of the many issues that have conspired to create a situation where young people just do not even feel connected to this culture anymore.
It's all about the culture, now that is is failing in plain sight. About trying to reform it, to get back to the status quo that seemed to work before when in actuality it wasn't working then either. The discussion still does not even acknowledge young people.
We see this in the MSM at the moment with talks about conscription and national service. Nowhere are young people even considered in the equation, beyond forcing them to do something.. and then they try to spin it as 'good for them' and 'instilling a sense of optimism and national pride', etc. It's bullshit. Completely self serving, culture trying to protect itself, and no thought given to the young people at all.
That is your 'Judeo-Christian' values in action. Forcing children and young people to conform, rather than asking the question of whether our adult game playing is all wrong and loopy.
There is a world in which elders consult with young people to form consensus, where adults actively mentor the innovation inherent in youth.
Instead we have a world where everyone is fighting to hold onto their piece of youth, wealth, and status - to try to make the culture conform to their world view instead of adapting themselves while acknowledging that everything is ephemeral.
All of these moments lost, like tears in the rain.