Heroin I'm confused about suboxone and heroin?

[BlueHues]

Sorry, that last post was a grammatical, typing disaster.....Most people just don't believe it until it happens to them.....If you go back and forth between dope and subs, something happens where it just doesn't take for a good couple days.....It's better than cold turkey, but still a cold, clammy sniffly couple of days to get through! Once it starts working, it's great...
As far as taking large doses of sub to kill craving, I guess it's possible 16mg may work better than a lower dose to prevent cravings. But.... tapering from this shit is a friggin nightmare at the end. IME, getting to 2mg, 1mg is a cakewalk....It's 48 hours after you dose last sliver when shit hits the fan! Sorry if I'm getting off topic.

As far as dosage goes, less is definitely more. Psychologically, as an addict, you think, "I'm not a lightweight! Its gonna take more than this little amount to hold me!" but it's a waste of sub, which is expensive shit.....All the suboxone doctors can show you a powerpoint presentation depicting receptor affinities and all that shit, and of course the drug company wants everybody on 24 mgs a day! But, it's pretty common knowledge that it doesn't take nearly as much as once thought..

I'm from the northeast and have had my habit up to "2+ gram" territory and I've never needed more than four mgs...
I know this is covered extensively elsewhere and I apologize

 

[pbuilder]

Yes it was 8mg. No I did not swallow it. I've done this a lot when I first started and barely smoked. It used to work perfectly. So idk why it's not now. Also okay so if I can't take more subs what can I do to feel better

Well of course just take the magical one a day keeps the withdrawals away pill!

Other than a healthy meal, an attempt at rest, and maybe a hot bath, their isn't much you can do until you wait a full 18 hours and then re-dose your sub... Never got the point of people attempting to use H AND taper drugs like subs. Does it make you feel like less of an addict or something? All you are doing is wasting your H, skyrocketing your tolerance, and wasting your subs.

 

[BlueHues]

Like everything else, it's different for evryone I suppose. There's two reasons why I would mix my H with suboxone
1)For whatever reason, my prospects of copping that day are starting to look pretty dismal. It's getting late. I'm getting sick. I give up and take a some sub. Miraculously, someone calls me at ten a clock at night for a favor! 45 minutes after dosing the sub, I have my H.......Instead of saving it, I immediately do it hoping to get high because I'm a junkie! It doesnt work but makes me feel a little less like a rabid dog, foaming at the mouth.
2) I genuinely want to be off dope and on sub but, for whatever reason, I'm having trouble with the induction and I can't sleep. I have to work the next day so I cop a modest amount of dope just to smooth things out. I'm not trying to override the suboxone and kill myself!! I'm just trying to feel comfortable until the sub works.

Some may argue that this is pointless and I'm creating a "receptor showdown" in my brain or something, but for some reason it seems make the transition easier. Of course, the point I really should be making, is....Don't screw around with using sub as the magical cure for sickness!! It will backfire eventually... Of course, "misusing" it this way worked for years....Wow, I'm a fucking loser!! greaat!

 

[Tony Williams]

My advice is this. Use your heroin mid-day-night then sleep so you've 12hr with it outyou ..... longer is better so gbl/benzos/pregs although not advised to mix will help you pass the time I speak from exp.

When you wake get an 8mg bupe and snort 2mg every 2-4hr. Now NOTE on a COWS or summit HOW you feel and when you dose it. The idea you wake ugghhhhhhh WANT SOME SMACK then snort a small amount 2mg so just a low amount enters every 2-4hr. Now for this day I would advice 4-6mg TOPS. If you go more and more you feel worse n worse which is bad starting. Maybe since it's just 4-8mg and if you're still ill just shoot 2/3 of a hit (BARE IN MIND IF YOU'VE BEEN MIXING DOWNERS YOU ARE RESPONSABLE)

BUT ideally don't maybe finsh the 8mg at the end of the night and sleep then the day after if you're first day was just bupe and good dose another 8mg and if it's not enough bump to another 8mg at night meaning 16/day. Then swap to sublingual.

Bupe is a twat when you're clean of it (ie, not used it in 1week) when it enters your opiod receptor it says this "right you fucking twat I want you out the delta site now and in the kappa and I am gunna fuck you like I fucked your mom in 1992, on GABA-B. Both Diamorphine, DHC and Methadone put up a fight but bupe is all waaaa waaaa then parks up a Rolls Royce and 4 pimpin guys are out making 5 mg of bupe they smash fuck out of Diamorphine, one jizzes over DHC and Methadone just bleeds from behind after re creating I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE the movie"

Basically you don't want this gangland violence do you? then I always say just a bit then a bit more. slow.

Be greatful........ When I moved from Methadone 40mg I had onTOP a huge heroin habit and I just wanted off so dropped to 30mg (MORE H ontop) then over to bupe sadly I never had control on dosing it. Even in the DDU I wasnt in wd but the guy who knew little on bupe pre-wd said I had to dose 4mg on the spot which I swollowed, getting the dose right and onto bupe was 'ard but worse it.

What goes down, must come up.

 

[Znegative]

I hear a lot of people claiming on here that all you need is 2-4mg to get out of withdrawals. Wild I agree that the ceiling effect is probably around 4mg sublingually, I feel that when a person switches to suboxone, taking eight milligrams the first day is not unreasonable, though anymore really strikes me as unreasonable and ineffective.

Like methadone, Buprenorphine, the active ingredient in Suboxone and Subutex, takes around 5 days of consistent dosing to build up in your blood stream to the point where you will feel comfortable and stable on it (though technically the half lives actually level out after 11-12 days, but after five most people feel reasonably held). So when you take your first dose of suboxone, say 2mg, the relief is not going to last nearly as long as someone who doses 2mg chronically.In case what I'm saying is a little confusing, check out this graph:

So, according to this graph (and my shitty mathematical skills), someone stabilized on 16mg actually has a build up of 44mg of Buprenorphine in there system. Someone stabilized on 2mg would have a buildup of 5.5mg of Buprenorphine. Therefore, it is easy to say "I feel great on 1-2mg of suboxone a day, there is no need for anymore!", but this is disregarding the fact that someone on maintenance actually has more than twice that amount of Buprenorphine stored up in their system, whereas someone dosing Bupe for the first time, really only has just 2mg in their blood.

I do think that during the induction period it is wise to start with 2mg, and if an added dose is needed, always increase by 2mg max (also, make sure to give suboxone/subutex a good 90 minutes before redosing). Obviously it's best to try and get by on as little sub as possible, but don't make yourself uncomfortable by dosing to low during this period. Since the Buprenorphine is not going to last as long in your system the first couple of days, due to the fact that not enough time has gone by for blood levels to stabalize, the suboxone is not going to keep withdrawals away for as long as it would when used chronically, which is why some people do need more than 4mg during this period. Once you've reached a dose which keeps you out of withdrawals for a full day, you should probably stick to that for a day or two, and then begin to taper down. If you plan out a taper just right, you can detox yourself pretty easily with Suboxone.

 

[justbecause]

The sub is only mean to ease the withdrawal... You've come this far so don't back down but get ready to be uncomfortable for a few days. Right now you have opioids stuck to your receptors and the suboxen needs to work it's way in and and take the place of the opioids. It's different for everybody but my friend tapered off as best he could and then took the sub when the withdrawal was already pretty bad. You'll notice it calms the body down and your legs will sit still. Also should have a beta blocker like nuerontin or gabopentn to ease the muscle aches. My friend thought the beta blockers were as helpful if not more than the subs.

Your supposed to wait till full withdrawal, take a full 8mg tab or strip and put it under your tongue (DONT SWALLOW) and let it dissolve for 15 minutes plus without talking, smoking swallowing etc. Then about every four hours take a half or so for about a day. If you need more the first day that's cool but no more than another 8mg (that's a guild line not a rule, ask a doctor to b sure). Tabs are easier than strips. Your goal should be 8 mg a day or whenever you start to feel like your withdrawing. It's kinda trick but but you learn how to take it over time. Have everything you need in the house and plan on being home for a few days. Food, Advil, water, juice, something to help you sleep and if not just be ready to be awake for a couple days. That's worst case scenario but if it happens don't think your anyone special and make that your excuse to use, it happens. Withdrawal sucks but it does end. 2nd and 3rd day can be the most challenging but when you start to notice your feeling better and realize your not tied to the shit anymore... That's a pretty amazing moment. Good luck.

 

[rob007]

taking it orally sucks too. definitely go with the sublingual route.

 

[DustnRoses]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9048270

 

[a100unitSHOT]

From my experience it's best to wait as long as possible before taking the suboxone and it will work exponentially better the longer you wait... for me it's best to wait as close to 48 hrs after my last dose of heroin as possible, though I know every hour past the 24 hr mark sucks!!!!

This was the only way it ever worked for me. I had to wait until I was in a lot of pain and going mentally insane before I used bupe to get off heroin. The first time I used bupe, it was to get off of OC, and I took the bupe maybe 12 hours after my last shot, and it worked amazingly. Then, six months later I (unfortunately) got addicted to heroin for three years. I thought waiting the same amount of time would work, but when I took the bupe, it made me 100x sicker. I kept trying and trying, using then taking bupe at different intervals praying for relief. Finally, I decided to wait until I felt like I was dying, took the bupe, and felt better. Unfortunately, I'm now addicted to the medicine, but spending $250 a month is better than $100 a day. Getting clean was worth it.