Illicit drugs: How we can stop killing and criminalising young Australians

[Captain Brewster]

I'm not so sure about that. I think initially you'll have a lot of people growing thinking just that, but eventually the majority will realize that it's mostly hard, dirty boring work and will just go back to buying it at the store, except for the few hobbyists or whatever who just get a kick out of smoking something they created themselves or playing with strains or whatever.

Yeah I agree, I know plenty of alcoholic beer drinkers that don't home brew, takes up too much if their drinking time.

 

[Portillo]

Record busts

Meanwhile the AFP says it seized almost 14 tonnes of drugs and ingredients in 2011-12.

The figure is a 164 per cent jump on the five tonnes seized the previous year, and more than 11 times the amount seized the year before that.

It is partly as a result of more information and resource sharing with overseas law enforcement agencies.

Almost 12 tonnes of chemicals used to make drugs were seized, up 263 per cent.

More amphetamines and cocaine were found, but seizures of heroin and cannabis fell.

In the past financial year, the AFP confiscated nearly $100 million in criminal assets, more than double the $41 million confiscated the previous year.

Busts and seizure stories are always used to prove that we are winning the war. Just a few more seizures and our streets will finally be safe.

 

[Portillo]

Alot of people are scared of decriminalizing drugs. They think that if we do, all the kids will become drug addicts, everyone will be doing drugs, and chaos will reign. Society is already like that anyway, with alcohol, cigarettes and prescription drugs.The important thing to remember is that with decriminalization; drug use goes down, drug abuse goes down, drug addiction goes down, crime goes down, death goes down, overdoses goes down, disease goes down, taxpayer money is saved, and the courts and prison systems are freed up to deal with more serious crimes, instead of the kid who got caught with a pill or joint in his pocket.

If you believe that a drug-free society is actually possible then you are living in fantasy land. If you think that the best way is to educate the public and minimize the harm and problems that come from drugs, then decriminalization is the best way. Its definately a messy situation but the best way to go is to decriminalize for 5-10 years. Keep it in for a few years and see the positive results for yourself. Dont listen to the garbage the newspapers say because they love making people panic and insisting that we must spend billions on fighting an ineffective war.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Yep, cause humans have changed so much in 100 years 8)

 

[spacejunk]

^ that place looks more appealing than a typical aussie pub to me. maybe i'm biased and i'd like to see our culture evolve out of its pisshead doldrums?
those cats don't look set to glass anyone. they're just chillin' man. i'd go to an opium den over a bloody pub any day of the week.

 

[Portillo]

^ that place looks more appealing than a typical aussie pub to me. maybe i'm biased and i'd like to see our culture evolve out of its pisshead doldrums?
those cats don't look set to glass anyone. they're just chillin' man. i'd go to an opium den over a bloody pub any day of the week.

I remember many years ago reading about Schoolies. There was a low amount of violence and arrests that year. They asked the police commissioner or whoever and he said that he thinks the reason was that the majority of the kids were on ecstasy and not alcohol.

 

[spacejunk]

i'm not sure if you are talking about a different police statement or the same one, but police made a similar statement (then retracted it) in regard to millennium new year's celebrations in sydney.
couldn't find a link with a quick search, but turned up this article from the smh:

It even meant less work for police on one of their busiest nights. "It was quite amazing," a senior Bondi police officer told the Herald after Sydney's millennium celebrations in 2000, one of the most trouble-free New Year's Eves in years. "The big topic of conversation among the officers on the night was how the widespread use of ecstasy has really calmed things down. It has changed the whole scene."

i can't imagine police praising school-leavers for their drug-induced good behaviour, because most 'schoolies' are under age. they're usually more interested in boasting about intercepting drugs "bound for schoolies" thus protecting the children.

 

[Portillo]

Maybe it was that one.

 

[thestudent14]

I'm not so sure about that. I think initially you'll have a lot of people growing thinking just that, but eventually the majority will realize that it's mostly hard, dirty boring work and will just go back to buying it at the store, except for the few hobbyists or whatever who just get a kick out of smoking something they created themselves or playing with strains or whatever.

That said, I am a little doubtful about whether it'll be the cashcow some people represent it as, but I can't imagine it would hurt in that regard. It's a little silly when I see people saying that legalizing cannabis is the answer to any economics woes though.

Just adding on this, I imagine the growing laws would be some what based on the tobacco laws. In which it is illegal to grow. But even so, some people do grow their own, but mostly it's too much hastle. I agree, few people would be bothered growing. I have plenty of friends who smoke weed, and honestly I think only a couple would bother. In Fact, I believe the amount of growers would decrease as there would be no money in it. Why buy someone's weed grown in the back yard when you could buy some perfectly good taylored J's at most likely a competative price and made in pristine conditions. If the sale of weed was way overpriced then more people would grow, but I don't see this being the case.

Edit: Or alcohol, it's not that hard to brew your own beer, but few people do it, and most who do just do it once in awhile. True it's less effort to have a cannabis plant but the principle is primarily the same.

 

[spacejunk]

^ more people would grow industrial hemp, which would be a very good thing.

 

[Jakeperson]

For every ounce that is taxed and collected by the government you also have to factor the loss of productivity, the downturn in alcohol sales, people being late for work because they couldn't find their keys etc. If you think the Hotelier Association took a hit when they banned indoor smoking imagine the loses when people stay home and smoke weed. They won't repeal the smoking laws just so they can open coffee shops, dispensaries will be for selling weed and perhaps tim tams.

I don't think those effects are universal, I doubt Micheal Phelps decided to stay home and smoke weed very often instead of training. The same laws as alcohol would most likely exist, even in a hundred years with legislation I highly doubt we are going to be allowed to get stoned at or before work.

As for the downturn in alcohol sales, it has been proven in countries with decriminalization that there is no increase in drug use. People are still gonna drink and stoners are still gonna smoke weed.

 

[spacejunk]

also busty, the Australian Hoteliers Association are hardly the sort of people i want running every pub (or every second pub) in the country.
these people make millions off of problem gamblers and various other vulnerable people. when they bought out my local, they destroyed everything that was good about it; the heritage charm, the 'old aussie pub' vibe and the local original bands. they totally fucked the place, turned it into a sterile, soulless dump and i refuse to set foot inside any establishment they own.
if you want to talk about addictions, how about gambling?

i used to smoke weed every day, and i never had a problem with "being late for work because couldn't find [my] keys etc".
sounds more like a tweaked-out stim behaviour to me. when i was a big stoner i didn't lose my keys any more than a boozer or a sober person.

alcohol has a lot of social costs, and is very expensive in this country - partly due to the rate of tax.

people already stay home and smoke weed - there are a lot of things to blame for this other than weed (such as home entertainment systems).
people used to go out more than they do now anyway, but things like live music will always have a place in pubs and an audience - so long as the AHA and their corporate cronies don't have a monopoly on licensed establishments, filling them with poker machines.

people still need places to socialise, bands still need somewhere to play. changing the legal acceptance of drugs that are already there will not change this. hell, if i could go to my local and smoke opium, i'd spend more nights out on the town

 

[Dr Phibes]

Wodak and many others in the medical field have always advocated this. I am glad that a government has thought enough about the issue to actually commission a report.

Legalisation comes with its own issues however, taxes and red tape for starters. Look at euthanasia. We know it happens all the time, the doctor calls in the family, they up the Morphine dose and it is all private and just between the family and doctor. Legalisation will bring so much red tape, forms and such to fill in, that while I support euthanasia I don't support its legalisation.

Drugs is a very efficient, worldwide, manufacturing and distribution industry going on with no tax and regulation that functions very well and does not produce one or two market dominator's like "legitimate" industries. Maybe the least corrupt big business that exists.

Its all just speculation anyway. Politically it can just go nowhere. Even the Greens try to play down their views on treating drugs as anything other than a criminal activity at all levels.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Drug decriminalization in Portugal was associated with an increase in both homicide and drug mortality rates relative to trends in the other European Union countries

https://econ.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/yablon_daniel.pdf

 

[Jakeperson]

"For this reason, statistical inference based on the results of the analysis in this paper is not possible." ^^

After reading through although not thoroughly, that article seems to show that legislation is far more effective than decriminalization.

 

[laugh]

What should that worry you busty? Wouldn't that just dispose of the trash?

That bs about the opium dens is laughable, like space said people lying around in an opium den couldn't be any worse than any pup right about now

 

[laugh]

How about switzerland? Junkie park got sorted ay

 

[spacejunk]

Drug decriminalization in Portugal was associated with an increase in both homicide and drug mortality rates relative to trends in the other European Union countries

https://econ.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/yablon_daniel.pdf

If homicide rates went up, it's because they haven't gone far enough; decriminalisation still means that "criminals" are profiting from the hugely lucrative trafficking/smuggling market (which is still outside the law).
We need a full cultural shift here, no half measures.
As for drug mortality? The people are still being sold dodgy, illegal, unregulated drugs.
Has your time on Bluelight not rubbed off at all Busty?

 

[Busty St Clare]

I'm not dead, never been arrested and I'm not addicted to drugs. I'd say I am a pretty good example of Harm Reduction.

 

[Divine Moments]

I'm not dead, never been arrested and I'm not addicted to drugs. I'd say I am a pretty good example of Harm Reduction.

Yeah, because anecdotal evidence is far weightier than population-based statistics. Why can't everyone just do exactly what you do then we wouldn't have this problem 8)